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Post by brutalis on Nov 19, 2018 15:48:47 GMT -5
Sadly I could only ever find a few of the Batman family issues at the time. Mostly near the end of the run too so this will make some fun reading!
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 19, 2018 16:15:06 GMT -5
I could never really get into Batman Family, but I've always liked the concept.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Nov 19, 2018 16:28:41 GMT -5
Nice reviews so far. I never had the first few issues, but did have a few from somewhere in the middle of its run, and then the last few - I thought the series definitely finished with a bang. Well, sort of finished, as the Batman Family concept was moved over to Detective Comics for a while afterward.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 17:30:08 GMT -5
I read pretty much all the issues of this book and had fond memories of them -- I liked the maturation of Robin and the good natured relationship of Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon that made Barbara think highly of Dick.
The Congresswoman Angle of Barbara Gordon that was employed here was a breath of fresh air and that's the part that I really liked.
There is more to it ... but, I'm stopping right here and not to spoil it even further ...
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 19, 2018 19:16:57 GMT -5
I had/have a smattering of issues. I seem to remember it changing directions at least two times during it's short run. It should be interesting to refresh on the ones I no longer have. For awhile it, then Detective, Superman Family and World's Finest were giants with a lot of original material but it couldn't be sustained given lower priced comics on the same spinner racks a lot of buyer's would go for two skinny comics even if they added up to fewer pages than the dollar comics format. DC made a few attempts to break comics out of the cheap product niche so that retailers might take more care of something with a higher return per unit as with most non-comics magazines.
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Post by Rob Allen on Nov 19, 2018 20:21:41 GMT -5
It was 1975, and the Batman Office was desperate. Bat-mania had dwindled away half a decade earlier, the Fox television series leaving the wrong impression about Batman and his mythos in the minds of many impressionable readers, ... A quick bunch of comments: - in 1975, no one called it "the Batman Office". They didn't even have all the Bat-books under the same editor. Julius Schwartz edited Batman and Detective, while Murray Boltinoff handled Brave & Bold. - the TV series was on ABC. The Fox network didn't exist yet. The series ended in March 1968, and ratings had been down significantly since the previous summer, so it had been a good eight years since Bat-Mania. - DC launched several "Family" books along with this one - Superman Family, Tarzan Family and Super-Team Family all came out around this time and the quartet were advertised together. I think they all followed the format of ~20 pages of new stories with reprints filling out the rest. - while writing this post, I looked up the issue in the GCD and learned that the Batgirl/Robin/Benedict Arnold story had been originally slated for First Issue Special #6.
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Post by chadwilliam on Nov 19, 2018 21:12:20 GMT -5
Batman Family always sounded too much to me like it should have been called Batman Leftovers - a bait and switch attempt to do something with all the characters who couldn't carry their own series using a title which implied a little bit more than a nominal role for the selling point of the series. However, for a character whose handlers were merciless in pretending that certain characters and ideas never existed once they had either abandoned their old direction (good-bye Bat-Mite, Bat-Hound, Batwoman, Bat-Girl; hello New Look) or simply forgotten who they had laying around (misplacing The Riddler for 19 years; The Scarecrow for 26; Catwoman for 12; etc) Batman Family is an interesting curiosity. In 1975, The Riddler had just been rescued from seven years of oblivion (prior to Batman 263 dated May, 1975 Edward Nigma had last appeared in 1968), The Penguin had appeared only once in that same span of time (in 1974), and while other villains such as The Scarecrow, Catwoman, and Poison Ivy fared a little better, they were mostly dependant upon appearances in Lois Lane or Justice League or The Secret Society of Supervillains to earn a regular paycheque.
And yet at the same time that the main Batman titles seemed too snobby to use any of their classic villains perhaps due to their association with the '66 TV series, Batman Family is proudly using cool villains such as Killer Moth, The Outsider (!), and Killer Moth while tossing Batwoman and Bat-Girl into the mix.
I suspect that I'm the minority by regarding Robin and Batgirl as characters "who couldn't carry their own series" (sorry, but I never really saw Robin as anything more than a convenient Damsel in Distress or sounding board for Batman) but I wonder if those in charge of the title felt similarly and decided to be more experimental here than they would elsewhere. I mean, The Penguin, Riddler, Catwoman, Scarecrow all have to beg for a chance to appear in Batman/Detective, but The Cavalier, Killer Moth, Man-Bat, Joker's Daughter, and Batwoman are the rotating cover features over at Batman Family? This really sounds like a fun title compared to a lot of what was being offered over at the regular series (the 1980 end point is the same year Brave and the Bold 166's gave us a Penguin tale meant to evoke The Joker's Five Way Revenge in which Oswald Cobblepot plots his revenge against four ex-henchmen who sent him to prison and 1979's Detective 485 contribution to Batman Family treated Kathy Kane a lot less reverentially than previous writers had as two indications of how seriously readers were expected to take the Batman Universe over in the main Bat-titles).
Really looking forward to this Shaxper and thanks!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 19, 2018 21:15:50 GMT -5
I could never really get into Batman Family, but I've always liked the concept. I'm still not sure what the concept is, myself. I get the Bargirl/Robin team-up aspect. It's the rest of the book I'm totally unsure about, and (as of issue #1, at least) I suspect DC was too
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 19, 2018 21:19:45 GMT -5
A quick bunch of comments: - in 1975, no one called it "the Batman Office". They didn't even have all the Bat-books under the same editor. Julius Schwartz edited Batman and Detective, while Murray Boltinoff handled Brave & Bold. I guess I consider Schwartz's to be "The Bat Office". He was running, Batman, 'Tec, and now this. Brave and the Bold was the outlier. I changed my terminology in order to avoid future confusion. Noted. Thanks for this. "half a decade" vs. eight years. I suppose that's more like "three quarters of a decade." This was also a common practice with the Marvel Giant-Sizes, wasn't it? I've only read a handful, but I definitely recall GS X-Men employing this tactic. Yes indeed. I think this came up in the 1st Issue Special episode of the CCF Podcast, as well.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 19, 2018 21:28:57 GMT -5
Batman Family always sounded too much to me like it should have been called Batman Leftovers - a bait and switch attempt to do something with all the characters who couldn't carry their own series My generally uninformed assumption was that the Robin and Batgirl backup features had been garnering positive attention (thus their long runs), and DC saw both as an opportunity to court the teen/college demographic that they were continually losing to Marvel. It's easy to look back and see these characters as annoying distractions from the core Batman titles, but the core Batman titles weren't doing so hot in 1975. It just might be that Batman was the character whose ability to carry his own series was in doubt at this point. Of course, they were all invented and/or resurrected for the sake of the television series, so their obscurity post-1968 makes sense. Batgirl was introduced for the same reason, of course, but she and Robin had trademarks to uphold. I like your theory and look forward to testing it as these reviews move forward. Thanks for joining me for the ride!
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 19, 2018 21:30:42 GMT -5
I could never really get into Batman Family, but I've always liked the concept. I'm still not sure what the concept is, myself. I get the Bargirl/Robin team-up aspect. It's the rest of the book I'm totally unsure about, and (as of issue #1, at least) I suspect DC was too I like the concept of an anthology book featuring all various the Bat-characters, which I felt was the purpose of Batman Family and have always wanted a book that did it well as although my sample size is small I never really got into Batman Family. Batman Eternal came close to what I felt Batman Family should be, with a big story that had a lot of subplots featuring the different characters but it fell apart at the end, and it could have been just as good if the stories weren't all inter-related and instead were just lumped together because they took place in Gotham.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 22:32:15 GMT -5
Loved the DC Family titles. My understanding was in 1974 DC folded Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane and Supergirl into one Giant Sized title (similar to Marvel's Giant Sized issues at that time). The numbering continued from Jimmy Olsen. Sales were decent so a year later in 1975 DC launched Batman Family, Tarzan Family (continued from Korak) and Super Team Family. DC lost the Tarzan license to Marvel a year later so Tarzan Family was canceled. Super Team Family changed it's concept and finally was re-launched as DC Comics Presents in 1978. Batman Family went from new stories with reprints to all new stories to the Dollar Comic format before it was combined with Detective Comics. And Superman Family continued in the same vein from 1974-1982. I loved Superman Family and Batman Family titles as I felt it gave exposure to characters that I loved that would have trouble carrying their own series. And I really think the Dollar Comics format enabled these titles to succeed (along with World's Finest and Adventure Comics). Looking forward to shaxper insights and detailed reviews of Batman Family.
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 20, 2018 0:07:20 GMT -5
Then only appealing aspect of this too-bad-to-be-bland cover is the Cardy Batman, which I can't place (or find) for the life of me. Some reprint title? Or was he drawn specifically to save this cover? Maybe Grell drew a Batman figure that was just too awful to put there? Anyway, this is the kind of Grell art that makes Ernie Chan's covers look good. Just try to assume that Benedict Arnold batting stance. You'll wrench your back in two seconds. He wouldn't make a tee-ball team. And four months later, Grell decided we just couldn't get enough of ill-proportioned caped guys jumping at another guy with batwings in the background.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 20, 2018 0:08:55 GMT -5
Eh, Denny O'Neil had a decent handle on Commissioner Gordon. Englehart used him sparingly; mostly to be put upon by Boss Thorne. However, he seemed tough and capable.
I don't think Grell was particularly enthused with the bulk of the superhero comics, though he gave them his all. It's sometimes hard to remember he cut his teeth on some very not-street level heroes. No, Warlord and Jon Sable were more up his alley and he really went to town on those. At the same time, he would have been following Maggin's script; so, he has to share blame for some visual weirdness. I think both didn't put much thought into the batrope element. Maggin was good at characterization and Grell was good at mixing action and quiet moment.
The Man-Bat story, for me, was the one Robbins both wrote and drew, set in Las Vegas. That one had really great atmosphere and kind of catches you off guard. It was included in the Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told.
A lot of these "Family" books were reprint collections, with a couple of new lead stories. Even later, around the time of the Joker's Daughter storyline, they had some reprint back-ups. Super-Team Family was the same and Superman Family, when it began, would also have some reprints (not as much, though).
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Post by Chris on Nov 20, 2018 1:32:22 GMT -5
Then only appealing aspect of this too-bad-to-be-bland cover is the Cardy Batman, which I can't place (or find) for the life of me. Some reprint title? Or was he drawn specifically to save this cover? Maybe Grell drew a Batman figure that was just too awful to put there? It's a modification of this.
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