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Post by zaku on Nov 20, 2020 17:26:18 GMT -5
Perhaps it because of all those internet's meme, but lately I feel more and more uncomfortable to see an adult walking around with bare legs and hot pants.  Not to mention how impractical it must be when one has to fight crime. And he must hope to do it in a temperate climate. Considering that they changed this costume only after the third Robin, really at the DC they had been perfectly OK with it? I understand there was a ton a merchandise with this particular version of the Boy Wonder, but I believe that even then it was subject of scorn. |
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Post by shaxper on Nov 20, 2020 22:31:22 GMT -5
Considering that they changed this costume only after the third Robin, really at the DC they had been perfectly OK with it? I understand there was a ton a merchandise with this particular version of the Boy Wonder, but I believe that even then it was subject of scorn. Bob Rozakis, in particular, never let the matter go while he was writing Robin. Constant jokes were made at Robin's expense (often by Robin himself), and Rozakis encouraged readers to send in their own redesigns of Robin's costume (Norm Breyfogle, being one of these fans, submitted his first published work in this manner), but (as you said) merchandizing was the primary concern. Change Robin's costume, and you end up pissing off a ton of licensed vendors. As for the original concept behind the design, I suspect historical context matters here. In 1940, only children ever wore shorts. Men sweated it out even in the hottest weather, and women wore skirts. Since Robin was the first ever boy sidekick to a superhero, I'm guessing the short pants were designed to immediately visually distinguish him as both youthful and playful. Then again, the Bruce Wayne of the comic strip you posted above might be placing the same emphasis on "youthful" and "playful"... |
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Post by zaku on Nov 21, 2020 4:26:14 GMT -5
Change Robin's costume, and you end up pissing off a ton of licensed vendors. At this point I wonder why at the end they relented and changed his costume if this was a so deeply concern. What happened? |
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Post by shaxper on Nov 21, 2020 6:22:16 GMT -5
Change Robin's costume, and you end up pissing off a ton of licensed vendors. At this point I wonder why at the end they relented and changed his costume if this was a so deeply concern. What happened? I don't think it was a matter of relenting at all. The 1989 Batman movie had flooded mainstream America with a new and more serious image of Batman that didn't include Robin. There was zero merchandizing demand for Robin anymore. Vendors were no doubt excited to have a new and more serious image of him that they could sell to America all over again. Then Robin failed to appear in the second movie and ended up looking totally different in the third. |
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Post by shaxper on Nov 21, 2020 8:19:53 GMT -5
Detective Comics #496 (November 1980)  Batgirl: Stealer of Souls!" Script: Cary Burkett Pencils: José Delbo Inks: Bob Smith Colors: Gene D'Angelo Letters: Gaspar Saladino Grade: C- For four fantastic issues, Burkett wrote one of the finest comeback stories in comicdom, as Babs Gordon worked physically and emotionally to come back stronger than ever after nearly being killed. As of this issue, the paralyzed girl intended to symbolize her injury and recovery is walking again, and so it's time for Burkett to find new conflicts with which to keep the Darknight Damsel occupied each month. And, well, this one wasn't great.  I mean really wasn't great.   Please, God. No. There is a little more brewing behind the scenes for Babs in this story, though. The District Attorney's office believes they have a case that Barbara Gordon murdered someone named Congressman Scanlon (don't google it. There's a real Congresswoman by that name these days!). And this inevitably happened too:  Can't say I particularly care about this relationship, as this guy has no personality after three issues. However, Burkett may be working on a symbolic level once again (this time in a far more disturbing manner) as Babs offers this reflection only moments before kissing him for the first time:  ...and this single father's name is Jim. Deep, complex, and also cringe-worthy, all at once. Incidentally, is this the first acknowledgement ever made that there isn't a Mrs. James Gordon? Lousy plot, unappealing character developments, and a deep but disturbing psychological read on Babs Gordon. This is the first Cary Burkett Batgirl story to disappoint me, and boy did it ever. |
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Post by chaykinstevens on Nov 21, 2020 11:46:20 GMT -5
As of this issue, the paralyzed girl intended to symbolize her injury and recovery is walking again, and so it's time for Burkett to find new conflicts with which to keep the Darknight Damsel occupied each month. Have they stopped calling her the Darknight Maid? Incidentally, is this the first acknowledgement ever made that there isn't a Mrs. James Gordon? Burkett established this in 'Tec #492.  |
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Post by shaxper on Nov 21, 2020 12:04:15 GMT -5
As of this issue, the paralyzed girl intended to symbolize her injury and recovery is walking again, and so it's time for Burkett to find new conflicts with which to keep the Darknight Damsel occupied each month. Have they stopped calling her the Darknight Maid? Fortunately, yes. Nice catch! |
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Post by shaxper on Nov 21, 2020 12:56:33 GMT -5
Robin in November 1980As of Batman #329, Mike W. Barr still hasn't gotten the memo that Batman and Robin aren't getting along anymore. Instead, Robin continues to play the role Paul Levitz laid out for him--the bumbling, wise-cracking, immature contrast to Batman's awesomeness who regularly needs to be corrected and saved:   There also continues to be no mention of Dick dropping out of college, but this story does imply that Dick has been hanging around Gotham a lot lately.  Could still just be visiting on the weekends, or (as I hypothesized earlier) Levitz' initial plan in having Dick leave Hudson University may have been to have him enroll at a college in Gotham so that he could continue on as a regular sidekick for this feature. Some fans wanted solo Batman, some wanted the dynamic duo, and here Levitz is attempting to offer both (one as a lead story; one as a back-up). Too bad Marv Wolfman is busy complicating all that this month in the pages of New Teen Titans #1. Here we have a serious, angry Robin, looking to prove that he is anything but what Mike W. Barr is writing:  Wolfmans' Robin this month:  Barr's Robin this month:  Wolfman's Robin is currently residing in the Wayne Foundation headquarters with Bruce. This doesn't help to explain what Robin was doing in New York City in the New Teen Titans Preview last month. When I originally began reviewing The New Teen Titans last year, I was disappointed to see almost no connection between Dick's characterization in the original team and in the new one. But, viewing these first issues again within the context of The Batman Family, it seems clear to me that this was the version of Robin that Wolfman was most interested in writing about. He is still struggling in this issue and hasn't fully pulled himself out of his Hudson University Era rut yet. Sure, he sees the potential that leading this team will offer him  but he's not actually doing any leading yet. Raven assembles the team, lays out the plan of action, and Robin is never even the first to leap into the fray. He also has very little dialogue in this story, never once taking charge or doing anything particularly leader-like.   This is Jack C. Harris' Robin looking to un-Jack C. Harris himself and become the leader that Wolfman wants to write. Viewing NTT #1 in this context, it's more interesting than ever.
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 21, 2020 14:39:01 GMT -5
You would think that two former fan-boys like Levitz and Wein would have been the exact opposites of the DC editors they grew up with and paid attention to cross-title continuity and characterization.
I wonder how the decision was made to have the Titans' base of operations be New York. I'm guessing this would have been the first time the city had been incorporated into the DC superhero universe. That always made me shudder a bit, as Gotham and Metropolis were therefore relegated to second-tier status.
I was always fine with the DC's gazetteer being entirely based on counterparts to American cities, and the inclusion of New York City, and eventually Chicago and San Francisco -- probably there were others, too -- actually made it more difficult to accept the verisimilitude of the DC universe.
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Post by shaxper on Nov 21, 2020 20:58:17 GMT -5
You would think that two former fan-boys like Levitz and Wein would have been the exact opposites of the DC editors they grew up with and paid attention to cross-title continuity and characterization. It seems to me like Levitz had a clear plan to get Robin out of New Carthage and back to Gotham so that he could be a teen sidekick again. Harris was having Dick repeatedly miss Gotham in his final three solo stories and ultimately has Dick leave Hudson U specifically so that he can track down criminals in Gotham. Mike W. Barr seemed to be on the same page with his backup feature in Batman. Wolfman was the outlier doing his own thing. It's possible Kahn was empowering him to do this. After all, he takes over the writing of Batman next month, just in time to make his depiction of Dick consistant across both offices. Another anomaly that seemed to come from Wolfman. I've never understood the decision myself. Well, in many respects, New Teen Titans was an effort to Marvel-ize a DC title. Perhaps setting the book in real-world New York City was an extension of that. |
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Post by zaku on Nov 22, 2020 3:05:29 GMT -5
I wonder how the decision was made to have the Titans' base of operations be New York. I'm guessing this would have been the first time the city had been incorporated into the DC superhero universe. Wasn't New York Wonder Woman's base of operations too when she was working at the UN as Diana Prince? |
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Post by zaku on Nov 22, 2020 4:17:29 GMT -5
I wonder how the decision was made to have the Titans' base of operations be New York. I'm guessing this would have been the first time the city had been incorporated into the DC superhero universe. Wasn't New York Wonder Woman's base of operations too when she was working at the UN as Diana Prince? (By the way I believe that Wonder Woman's Bronze Age period is probably the least discussed in the comics circles. I think the unanimous opinion of that Amazonian warrior's period is "meh") |
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Post by shaxper on Nov 22, 2020 6:43:32 GMT -5
Wasn't New York Wonder Woman's base of operations too when she was working at the UN as Diana Prince? (By the way I believe that Wonder Woman's Bronze Age period is probably the least discussed in the comics circles. I think the unanimous opinion of that Amazonian warrior's period is "meh") I'm pretty sure Crimebuster reviewed that run back during this community's days at CBR, but it didn't survive the move to our new location. |
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Post by zaku on Nov 22, 2020 9:50:32 GMT -5
(By the way I believe that Wonder Woman's Bronze Age period is probably the least discussed in the comics circles. I think the unanimous opinion of that Amazonian warrior's period is "meh") I'm pretty sure Crimebuster reviewed that run back during this community's days at CBR, but it didn't survive the move to our new location. Thanks, I would have liked to read those reviews. Usually, when someone talks about Wonder Woman' Bronze Age period, they usually sum it up as "The interval between I-Ching stories and the revamp by George Perez". |
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 22, 2020 13:04:21 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Crimebuster reviewed that run back during this community's days at CBR, but it didn't survive the move to our new location. Thanks, I would have liked to read those reviews. Usually, when someone talks about Wonder Woman' Bronze Age period, they usually sum it up as "The interval between I-Ching stories and the revamp by George Perez". I read bits and pieces; but, most of the Wonder Woman stories I owned were those packed in the Whitman bags, with other comics. I think the first time I actually deliberately bought one was when the Huntress was appearing as a back-up feature and I bought it for her story. I think there were some decent stories in the 70s; but, the art was often pretty bland, on the interiors, until Colan was doing it. I liked the 2-parter, where Orana defeats Diana in a tournament and becomes the new Wonder Woman (#250-251) was a pretty good change of pace. Jose Delbo is the artist and he is a fine storyteller and drew beautiful women; but, the layouts and the action were kind of old fashioned and I don't think he ever really cut loose on the book. I think the series picked up a bit, with Roy Thomas; but, even Roy never gave it the life Perez did, nor made it as quirky and interesting as Mike Sekowsky's run, with Diana Prince. When I would see those 70s WW stories, then see reprints from the Golden Age; it was just no comparison. They were so much livelier then, even if they were insane or kinky (or both). Really, the same was true of the Diana Prince phase, compared to what preceded and followed. |
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