Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Nov 22, 2020 14:16:04 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Crimebuster reviewed that run back during this community's days at CBR, but it didn't survive the move to our new location. Thanks, I would have liked to read those reviews. Usually, when someone talks about Wonder Woman' Bronze Age period, they usually sum it up as "The interval between I-Ching stories and the revamp by George Perez". Yes, I reviewed #177-329 back at the old place. Actually, I did save the pages when we moved, I think have them somewhere I think on some old drive. I actually misplaced my backup drive a year ago, so if I can ever find that, I can restore the review thread. But I dunno where it is. I put it somewhere for safe keeping when I went on my honeymoon, just in case there was a break-in or something, but I can't remember where, so I guess the hiding spot was a little too well hidden.
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Post by zaku on Nov 22, 2020 14:47:12 GMT -5
Thanks, I would have liked to read those reviews. Usually, when someone talks about Wonder Woman' Bronze Age period, they usually sum it up as "The interval between I-Ching stories and the revamp by George Perez". Yes, I reviewed #177-329 back at the old place. Actually, I did save the pages when we moved, I think have them somewhere I think on some old drive. I actually misplaced my backup drive a year ago, so if I can ever find that, I can restore the review thread. But I dunno where it is. I put it somewhere for safe keeping when I went on my honeymoon, just in case there was a break-in or something, but I can't remember where, so I guess the hiding spot was a little too well hidden. By the way, can you confirm that in the late Bronze Age her stories were set in New York?
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Nov 22, 2020 15:30:56 GMT -5
Yes, I reviewed #177-329 back at the old place. Actually, I did save the pages when we moved, I think have them somewhere I think on some old drive. I actually misplaced my backup drive a year ago, so if I can ever find that, I can restore the review thread. But I dunno where it is. I put it somewhere for safe keeping when I went on my honeymoon, just in case there was a break-in or something, but I can't remember where, so I guess the hiding spot was a little too well hidden. By the way, can you confirm that in the late Bronze Age her stories were set in New York? At some points, yes, she was working at the UN as a translator for a while. She had other periods in other places during the Bronze Age as well, most notably Washington DC where she worked at the Pentagon. She also became an astronaut based out of Houston for a brief period. But she did live in New York City for a time as a UN translator.
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Post by tarkintino on Nov 22, 2020 16:17:36 GMT -5
He is still struggling in this issue and hasn't fully pulled himself out of his Hudson University Era rut yet. Sure, he sees the potential that leading this team will offer him That panel's dialogue makes no sense at all; unless he was referring to the new characters (i.e. Raven, Cyborg, et al.), he has known and worked with the others for a very long time. Continuity be damned, I guess, even though Wolfman would make references to their earlier incarnation in the years to come.
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Post by zaku on Nov 22, 2020 16:50:00 GMT -5
At some points, yes, she was working at the UN as a translator for a while. She had other periods in other places during the Bronze Age as well, most notably Washington DC where she worked at the Pentagon. She also became an astronaut based out of Houston for a brief period. But she did live in New York City for a time as a UN translator. Thank you! I was trying to remember stories that I had literally read decades ago!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 22, 2020 22:40:18 GMT -5
He is still struggling in this issue and hasn't fully pulled himself out of his Hudson University Era rut yet. Sure, he sees the potential that leading this team will offer him That panel's dialogue makes no sense at all; unless he was referring to the new characters (i.e. Raven, Cyborg, et al.), he has known and worked with the others for a very long time. Continuity be damned, I guess, even though Wolfman would make references to their earlier incarnation in the years to come. Of the six other members of the team, he'd previously worked with two. That's a very different dynamic than the team he'd worked with before.
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Post by tarkintino on Nov 22, 2020 23:02:02 GMT -5
I'm saying Robin should not have worded it that way at all, as it sounds like he's referring to the entire team, which would include former teammates Kid Flash and Wonder Girl.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 22, 2020 23:33:41 GMT -5
I'm saying Robin should not have worded it that way at all, as it sounds like he's referring to the entire team, which would include former teammates Kid Flash and Wonder Girl. He is referring to the unit as a whole. These folks are going into life or death combat without knowing even the basics of how the others think or fight. I don't see the issue.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 23, 2020 10:17:41 GMT -5
Detective Comics #497 (December 1980) "Barbara Gordon... Murderess!" Script: Cary Burkett Pencils: José Delbo Inks: Joe Giella Colors: Gene D'Angelo Letters: Milt Snapinn Grade: B- Two issues after Detective Comics shrinks back to its traditional format, we have perhaps the most iconic Batman Family cover of the entire run. I'm guessing that, much like today, covers were submitted well ahead of the rest of the book for promotional purposes? While it would have been great to see the entire Batman family involved in this one, they aren't. Nothing on the cover ever comes to pass beyond police arriving to arrest Barbara at the end of the story. I wonder if we would have seen a bigger story and the rest of the family's involvement in this one (much as Batman's feature connected to Batgirl's in Detective #492) if the Batman Family format hadn't been retired. And, while it's great to see Batgirl's backup story get the cover of this issue, the fact is that the A story is far better. Up until a few months ago, the Batman A features were far less interesting than what Burkett was doing with Batgirl, but the tables have turned, and Gerry Conway begins his run here with a bang. As that story is outside of the scope of these reviews, though, I'll move on. Burkett does a lot right in this story. He's continuing to explore Babs' personal history and psychology with a lot of depth: and while Batgirl may not be reeling off feminist ideals as often as she did in the early Elliot S. Maggin stories, Burkett doesn't shy away from depicting the challenges of being a professional woman in the workplace: but the conflicts are where Burkett continues to struggle. Someone has set up Barbara Gordon for murder: and Burkett wants us to believe it's her contentious colleague, Bob Barton, who never gives her a break: but that would be truly lazy storytelling. I hope it ends up being Richard Bender, the colleague who keeps making advances on Barbara instead, as that would be a far more complex and interesting resolution. Perhaps he is trying to set her up so that he can be the hero to rescue her and earn her thankfulness or something. Either way, it's not that engaging as of yet. Barbara doesn't actually do much in this issue besides swing around town, following the detective who is pursuing her as Batgirl, but the pursuit presents no struggles for Batgirl and doesn't yield anything either. The entire story is in holding pattern, giving us the expository information we require and otherwise doing nothing to advance a plot nor create any immediate conflict. As one final note to add here, it's becoming clear that Levitz isn't really reading this feature. Only a few months back, the Batgirl feature began with this intro: even though Batgirl had stopped being a senator ages earlier. Now, this time around, someone attempted to fix the intro and still got it terribly wrong: No. She is not a social worker. Her job is explained in just about every issue: Not a social worker. Anyway, I'm deeply interested in Burkett's exploration of Babs Gordon as an emotionally complex human being, but his plots are leaving much to be desired at this point. While I'm glad she is facing real-world struggles again instead of Dr. Voodoo (see last issue), it just isn't engaging me yet.
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 23, 2020 11:30:04 GMT -5
^^ Always though that the cover above was a bit of a nod to this one:
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Post by MDG on Nov 23, 2020 12:02:19 GMT -5
^^ Always though that the cover above was a bit of a nod to this one:
Putting those two covers next to each other shows why this is my least favorite period of DC. Nothing against Aparo, but the design and coloring in the earlier cover is so much more dramatic. (And where's the chain holding up the near end of Batgirl's bunk?)
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 23, 2020 12:15:03 GMT -5
^^ Always though that the cover above was a bit of a nod to this one: Putting those two covers next to each other shows why this is my least favorite period of DC. Nothing against Aparo, but the design and coloring in the earlier cover is so much more dramatic. (And where's the chain holding up the near end of Batgirl's bunk?)
My suspicion is that the empty space was left because Aparo anticipated a portion of the artwork being cut off to make room for the standard frame used on this title: The cover to the previous issue also has a lot of empty space, almost entirely on the sides. Such a frame hadn't been used in several months by this point, but who knows how far ahead Aparo first did breakdowns for these covers?
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Post by chadwilliam on Nov 23, 2020 13:18:59 GMT -5
I was pleasantly surprised to see DC use the old 'hero in jail as villain stands alongside the police' trope for a recent cover of Batman: Gotham Knights. It won't let me post it from work, but it's issue 4 if anyone's interested.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 23, 2020 14:11:41 GMT -5
The Lazarus Affair vs. New Teen Titans #2-7 (Robin in December 1980 thru May 1981)In the pages of New Teen Titans, Robin is slowly finding himself again and evolving into a team leader. We see the first signs of this in issue #2, and witness Robin finally and truly fall into the role with the culmination of the first major storyline in issue #6: After which, Raven essentially admits to grooming Robin into the team leader both she and he needed him to be: A fully self-actualized Dick Grayson follows in the next issue, comfortable in his role and at home with his new team, which necessitates his pushing away from Batman, confident in his own approach and destiny. One would think that Marv Wolfman assuming writing duties on Batman as of this month would allow for this vision of Robin to continue there. In fact, this marks the first time that the Batman title acknowledges Robin leaving college and the strain it has placed on his relationship with Batman: ...and the second time. ...and the third. ...and, well, Wolfman reiterates it A LOT. But that's where the alignment between Batman's depiction of Robin and the New Teen Titans' depiction of Robin ends. Even with the same writer taking on both major works (the first Trigon storyline and The Lazarus Affair, both starting and ending at the same time!), the Robin in the pages of Batman is far more foolish. Instead of having any sense of what to do, he runs to Catwoman for help when he thinks Batman is making a mistake and allows first her, and later King Faraday, to call most of the shots. And he doesn't end up helping much by the end anyway. He and Batman yell at each other a lot over the course of five issues, and both secretly still care about the other, but it all feels far more immature than the Robin we are seeing lead The Titans. In a sense, The Lazarus Affair is a metaphor for any kid who has had a divorced parent take on a new live-in girlfriend or boyfriend. Robin's reactions are powerful and immediately understandable, but more for an adolescent than a college-aged man in his late teens. But most surprising of all is where The Lazarus Affair ultimately takes the Bruce Wayne/Dick Grayson relationship: Not only is their relationship suddenly healed (something we do not see reflected in New Teen Titans #7): but what does Dick mean that he's going to "stay, for a while at least"? He's been living in Titan's Tower for three months by this point. Come to think of it, his involvement with the New Teen Titans is never once mentioned across this massive story arc. Odd, since Wolfman was the one writing that title. I realize I've turned Paul Levitz into a bit of an editorial boogeyman in these reviews, but this smells like his doing all over again. We know he wanted Robin in the pages of Batman as a happy-go-lucky sidekick again. So Wolfman tries to write an angry, independent Robin, and he ends up delivering a conclusion that absolutely doesn't match what he has been building towards and outright contradicts what he is writing in the pages of New Teen Titans--a conclusion that fulfills Levitz' agenda for the character and flies in the face of Wolfman's. And then Wolfman is abruptly gone from the Batman title immediately following that issue, a Bob Rozakis filler story taking his place until Gerry Conway can assume the reigns. Sure seems like editorial interference to me. Robin will return to getting his own solo feature in the back of the Batman title in two months' time, now written by Gerry Conway. I'll review those individually and will be curious to see if they align with Wolfman's depiction of the character at all.
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Post by tarkintino on Nov 23, 2020 22:45:04 GMT -5
^^ Always though that the cover above was a bit of a nod to this one:
Putting those two covers next to each other shows why this is my least favorite period of DC. Nothing against Aparo, but the design and coloring in the earlier cover is so much more dramatic. (And where's the chain holding up the near end of Batgirl's bunk?)
I see your point. Aparo certainly had command of the language of dramatic cover design, but Novick (the artist responsible for DET #377) had an unconventional approach (for superhero work) that added a lot of dark realism, especially in his Batman-related work.
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