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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 22, 2018 21:26:42 GMT -5
Batman Family #3 (February 1976) But, as with the first team-up, Maggin gives us that shocking final moment in the story that makes our mouths drop once again. This time, it isn't a kiss: ...and the "will they, won't they" component of this series heats up further. Is it just my lecherous eyes, or is there much more than just Batgirl's identity being revealed on this page? Talk about some serious cheesecake.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 23, 2018 0:05:01 GMT -5
Batman Family #3 (February 1976) But, as with the first team-up, Maggin gives us that shocking final moment in the story that makes our mouths drop once again. This time, it isn't a kiss: ...and the "will they, won't they" component of this series heats up further. Is it just my lecherous eyes, or is there much more than just Batgirl's identity being revealed on this page? Talk about some serious cheesecake. There were... other panels in this issue that were, perhaps, even more revealing. Garcia Lopez clearly enjoyed his work on this issue 🙄
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Post by tarkintino on Nov 23, 2018 4:48:13 GMT -5
The Batman Family: 1975-1980It was 1975, and the Batman franchise was in dire straights. Bat-mania had dwindled away with the cancellation of the television series eight years earlier, that same series leaving the wrong impression about Batman and his mythos in the minds of many impressionable readers While Batmainia triggered by the 1966 TV series had an effect on the published character, it was short-lived, as readers were quite energized in sending letters to Batman & Detective criticizing any trace of the TV series in those books (a couple of months ago, I reprinted a few in the "There, I Said It" thread), and sure enough, the serious, more grounded Irv Novick and Frank Robbins era took the Bat title out of the late 1960s, leaving any trace of Adam West & Burt Ward in the world of TV syndication and the Filmation cartoons The Batman/Superman Hour (CBS, 1968-69) and The Adventures of Batman (CBS, 1969-70). While Novick and Robbins were on a roll, Adams, O'Neill and Giordano's take on the Bat-universe carried that forward to become one of the great revolutions / transformations of an established character in the medium's history, which made fan and industry insiders take a look at something that had no trace of the "POW!", "THWACK!" and "ZOWIE!" of that short-lived image detour of the TV series. All one needs to do is read the letters pages of Batman and Detective of the Novick-Adams period to see many of their fans were high school and college age fans, often showing praise on a character that was in a class all his own, which separated Batman from the then-usual negative-for-DC vs. Marvel comparisons. While this effect would not last in terms of sales on a consistent basis, Carmine Infantino (as recalled in The Amazing World of Infantino book)has stated that in 1974--the year before Batman Family's debut, DC had raised the creative stakes to match Marvel-- Infantino: "1974 had been a huge success for DC. I was the toast of the town, receiving thank-yous and congratulations..."Infantino: "With rare exceptions, like the super-hero boom of the early '40s and the Batman boom of the mid '60s, the comic book business tends to make more money on licensing of characters for film, TV, toys, etc., than it does in publishing. If I remember correctly, we did about $800,000 in publishing alone in '74. I had brought the company up from being creamed by Marvel to being dead even with them."So, for all of Marvel's successful monthlies, and experiments in black and white magazines in that first half of the 1970s, DC came to fight and successfully went toe-to-toe with Marvel. This is an important detail because Batman's books had been a part of that success, and again, while this was not a "boom year" period for any publisher, Batman had a new life beginning in the late 60s, while DC had their own innovations that were imitated (DC was a true pioneer in titles that added--or padded monthlies with their Golden Age back-catalogue with the 80-Page Giants of the 60s) and as the tabloid, or "treasury edition" books (the latter a title used by Marvel) were another way to sell old material, DC was arguably the first to package the idea of old titles and #1st appearance issues being some honored legend of the medium in their Famous First Editions line. Batman titles were always sell-outs in that format, whether it reprinted Golden Age of recent Adams stories. By the time Batman Family rolled around, one has to remember that Bat-characters were still very popular in the culture, whether in print or licensing. Batman and his allies had become as high-profile as Superman, but it was not anchored by the image 1966 TV series, or the then-recent debut of The Super Friends on ABC. Paring Robin and Batgirl--who had already proven to be interesting back-up features in Detective for several years up to that point--was a logical choice; they were not necessarily strong enough to headline solo titles, but together, they were an exploration/continuation of all things great about Batman's evolving corner of the DC universe. That said, I do vividly remember buying several issues of Batman Family, but I felt it did not quite live up to the solo stories from Detective. Perhaps times had changed, and that mystery edge of DET-Batgirl, or the maturing of college-age Robin were not as in vogue or a focus by 1975, and that's why I was a here-and-there follower of the title. It was interesting...but not as eye-opening as the late 60s/early 70s stories, but your thread is serving as a fun ride back into this period of the characters.
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Post by zaku on Nov 23, 2018 6:47:13 GMT -5
Exactly where is the Batgirls's rope connected to..?
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 23, 2018 8:32:33 GMT -5
By the time Batman Family rolled around, one has to remember that Bat-characters were still very popular in the culture, whether in print or licensing. Batman and his allies had become as high-profile as Superman, but it was not anchored by the image 1966 TV series, or the then-recent debut of The Super Friends on ABC. Paring Robin and Batgirl--who had already proven to be interesting back-up features in Detective for several years up to that point--was a logical choice; they were not necessarily strong enough to headline solo titles, but together, they were an exploration/continuation of all things great about Batman's evolving corner of the DC universe. Your only support for this idea is Infantino tooting his own horn. 'Tec was on the verge of being cancelled, and the 1966 television series was absolutely still carrying a massive impact on popular culture. I grew up in the mid 1980s, and the West/Ward television series still managed to be my first impression of the property, just as the Linda Carter Wonder Woman series continued to be most people's primary perception of Wonder Woman until Gal Gadot came around.
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Post by tarkintino on Nov 23, 2018 13:30:50 GMT -5
By the time Batman Family rolled around, one has to remember that Bat-characters were still very popular in the culture, whether in print or licensing. Batman and his allies had become as high-profile as Superman, but it was not anchored by the image 1966 TV series, or the then-recent debut of The Super Friends on ABC. Paring Robin and Batgirl--who had already proven to be interesting back-up features in Detective for several years up to that point--was a logical choice; they were not necessarily strong enough to headline solo titles, but together, they were an exploration/continuation of all things great about Batman's evolving corner of the DC universe. Your only support for this idea is Infantino tooting his own horn. 'Tec was on the verge of being cancelled, and the 1966 television series was absolutely still carrying a massive impact on popular culture. I grew up in the mid 1980s, and the West/Ward television series still managed to be my first impression of the property, just as the Linda Carter Wonder Woman series continued to be most people's primary perception of Wonder Woman until Gal Gadot came around. Unlike some older comic creators, Infantino was not known for being a self-aggrandizing blowhard, but one of the more decent people ever to work in that business. Moreover, I've seen no countering account of DC's success under his watch. Next, your 80s impression of Batman may have come from the show, but I experienced a very different reality personally and from comic fans I knew in the 70s and 80s, where the image of Batman was the lean, shadowy one created by Novick, Adams, and later Aparo, Chua and others--with no influence and trace of that TV series. That was the dominant image of Batman to be found in his first run comics, save for reprints from the mid 60s or earlier. Batman's image as the "Dark Knight Detective" was set in stone entering the 70s - forward to the fans (their letters in period comics are irrefutable proof of that), and while in TV and comic journalism circles, the 1966 TV series had increasingly been written off as an aberration, not the norm of the character. Wonder Woman is not at all a relevant comparison, as the character had fallen so far off the pop culture and character integrity radar by the end of the 60s, that she could be defined in drastically opposing ways, such as her non-powered, "Emma Peel" period in the comics (#178 from October, 1968 - #203 from December, 1972), and the 1974 TV movie with blonde, superpower-free, lean-bodied Cathy Lee Crosby wearing what looked like a red, white and blue skin diving or ski outfit. With no defining identity--even after her powers and costume were restored in issue #204 (February, 1973), it was easy for a TV series to come along and place its own stamp on the character. Batman had been forcefully redefined in his titles, and followed only one path that continues--in one way or another--to this day. That is a consistent cultural identity that was not sidelined by Dozier's TV series, otherwise, the hard shift in the hands of Novick/Robbins/Adams/O'Neill, et al, would have failed, leaving Batman in the same, hollow position he was in before the creation of the "New Look" changes in 1964.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 24, 2018 6:45:33 GMT -5
Batman Family #5 (June 1976) "The Princess and the Vagabond!" Script: Elliot S! Maggin; Cary Bates Pencils: Curt Swan Inks: Vince Colletta Colors: ? Letters: ? grade: D+ Fans looking for a Batgirl and Robin team-up have now bought four double-sized issues of Batman Family, yet received only two such team-ups, both containing forgettable plots and only one truly memorable moment each. But this cover boldly promises another long-awaited team-up, choc full of chemistry. Heck, even the title page boldly promises what we've all been waiting for: (Did they just kick through a concrete exterior wall?)...and yet the story within tells two separate stories in parallel, our new dymanic duo teaming up for exactly two pages at the end: during which they pretty much reenact the cover we already saw before having paid the 50 cents, only with less gusto. And there will be no kiss, nor mutual discovery of secret identities in the final panels this time around. Instead, in this outing's obligatory will-they/won't-they moment, Maggin seeks to charm us and make our hearts skip a beat by giving us...pervy Robin: The conflict is over, so what could he possibly mean by, "kinda gets you ready for some real action, yes--?" Yikes. Enigmatically, Bob Rozakis later weighs in again on DC's concerns over a 25 year old and a teenager experiencing mutual romantic attraction: I'm starting to suspect from what we saw above that they'll have Dick crushing on Babs, and Babs keeping him at arm's length. We won't find out for another two issues though, as Rozakis also promises we will only be getting these team-ups every other issue from here on out: Were I buying this title in 1976, shelling out 50 cents an issue, I definitely would have dumped this title at this point. Too little pay-off for that much investment. And having Curt Swan on the book is an..."interesting" choice this time around. When Swan wants to, he can churn out some pretty modern looking material, but there is a stilted, throwback feel to much of this issue ...except when Swan is trying to give us cheesecake panels which are becoming shockingly frequent in this title. And, perhaps because of Swan's involvement, we have Clark Kent intermittently narrating this story for reasons I don't understand: He doesn't actually tell us anything we need to know, nor does he contribute to the story in any meaningful way. He just sort of takes up space. Minor Details:- The book drops from 68 pages to 52 pages with this issue. - Robin's lassoing skills continue to shatter the suspension of disbelief that otherwise works throughout these stories: Dude just threw a lasso around an entire tower. Still more believable than the Washington monument. - Whereas last issue's solo Robin story had him reunited with his old supporting cast, this one makes clear efforts to give him a new/different friend we haven't seen before: I'm curious whether he'll be with Jack or Lori in next issue's solo story. Plot synopsis: Dick and his friend are giving a Russian (though the country is never outright said) dissident writer a tour of New York and then DC, Babs is giving an Eastern European princess a tour of DC at the same time, and a covert agency named Maze is trying to take them both down. Cue Robin and Batgirl to save the day. Backup reprint features for this issue include the following: - "Ace, the Bat-Hound"!(from Batman #92) - "The Signs of the Signalman" (from Batman #124)
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 24, 2018 7:15:28 GMT -5
Nice review thread, Shax. I have to admit to never having bought any of these Batman Family books until many years later. I was primarily a Marvel fan and also I believe it was around the late 70's when I discovered girls. My impressions of this series is that they had lesser talent doing the all important Artwork. I respect any of the working artists but Jose Delbo could never get me to buy a book. I will admit to be intrigued by the Batgirl/Robin love story storyline. It seems that in recent years, they've been written as around the the same age.
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 24, 2018 7:24:09 GMT -5
Man-Bat: "Challenge of the Man-Bat" (reprinted from Detective Comics #400) Script: Frank Robbins Pencils: Neal Adams Inks: Dick Giordano Colors: ? Letters: John Costanza grade: C A reprinting of Man-Bat's origin and first appearance as a means of plugging his upcoming solo title. I'd never read this story before and was a little surprised by how lackluster it was: I want to pick a nit and say that I'd bet my last Batarang that that last panel is an Irv Novick head.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 7:48:03 GMT -5
The Batman Family was a breath of fresh air, the romance of Dick and Barbara was kind of unique and different. Barbara really finds working with Robin much easier than Batman and that's the beauty of this. Robin was 18 at the time and Barbara was 25 and I remember in one panel that Barbara commented that Dick is much easier to work for and takes his responsibilities seriously and that's why I felt it is okay for these two have a romance together. At first, I was skeptical about it and after reading Batman Family more and more -- I felt that these two deserves more. I find these reviews a shot in the arms and I liked this series better than Superman Family because of the dynamics and all that.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 24, 2018 8:14:09 GMT -5
Batman Family #6 (August 1976) We're back to dual solo stories this issue, and yet it's a little more rewarding than when this was last attempted with issue #4. Rozakis print a series of letter excerpts, all asking for more of this, so it's safe to assume this will be the new normal every other issue. Hopefully, we'll at least continue to see these solo outings grow in quality over time. Batgirl: "Valley of the Copper Moon!" Script: Elliot S! Maggin Pencils: José Delbo Inks: Vince Colletta Colors: ? Letters: ? grade: B- We've moved away from Batgirl teaming up with Daddy, and now see a story told more on her terms, as a congresswoman with her own new supporting cast, fighting crime as an extension of her day job fighting injustice. LOVE seeing a congressperson turn away a campaign contribution, but I doubt they'll bother to explain how Babs is going to run a re-election campaign without some dirty money. And, speaking of a new supporting cast, we meet two members in this issue who (it's suggested) may prove important down the road. Congressman Matthew represents the bureaucratic status quo, serving his own interests and constantly underestimating Babs as a woman, while Senator Robert Cleary seems to genuinely respect Babs' knowledge and strength, and is clearly pining for her from afar as well: I like the dynamic and hope Maggin will continue to work with this trio. And I also like the big reveal at the end of this story, that the council-member/spokesperson for the Tribe Babs is working to protect from overzealous industrialists is actually on the take: While we have action and a costumed hero, this is truly a story about Washington for once, and I really respect that. Not thoroughly engaging throughout, but we've come a long way from the ghost of Benedict Arnold. Important Details:- 1st appearances of Congressman Mathew and Senator Robert Cleary Minor Details:- This story marks Batgirl's second time working with the Matituck tribe. I honestly have no recollection of the first time, but it definitely happened somewhere in her Detective Comics backup stories. - Maggin and suspension of disbelief once again. Does Babs change clothes this quickly by shouting "Shazam!" or something: Robin: "The Joker's Daughter!" Script: Bob Rozakis Pencils: Irv Novick Inks: Frank McLaughlin Colors: ? Letters: ? grade: C+ It's been nearly two decades since I last read Rozakis' Teen Titans, and yet I clearly remember my absolute least favorite aspect of that era being the Joker's Daughter, who makes her first appearance here: I'm curious whether Rozakis was already planning to make her a member of the Teen Titans when he first introduced her here (his relaunch of the Titans is only three months away), or whether he was just trying to set up a costumed antagonist for Robin's future solo adventures: I definitely prefer her in that capacity. While she doesn't hold a candle to the other members of the Rozakis Teen Titans, she makes a great contrast from the grounded, real-world villains Robin generally takes down in his solo adventures. Babs can fight real world bad guys, and it works as an extension of her work as a congresswoman, but Robin can't exactly take down strict professors, test-cheaters, and unfair test questions each issue. He needs a more traditional antagonist. That being said, what was the point of this first meeting with "The Joker's Daughter"? She only pretended she committed a crime, seemingly just to get in this first meeting with Robin. I can't decide if I find that intriguing or if that's just poor writing. The only other thing this story has going for it is a clear nod to Agatha Christy (especially when Robin mentions using his "little gray cells"), though the mystery of what happened to her final manuscript is a pretty stupid one: All told, while it was great to see Robin facing an actual costumed villain and trying to solve an actual mystery, both fell short in the end. Minor Details:- Whereas the Batgirl and Robin teamup stories never make use of Robin's supporting cast (and last issue went so far as to give him a new friend), Rozakis clearly isn't done with the old supporting cast when it comes to these solo adventures: Backup reprint features for this issue include the following: - Alfred: "In the Soup!" (from Batman #32) - "Curious Crime Capers" (cartoon from Batman #152) - "The New Crimes of the Mad Hatter" (from Batman #161)
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 24, 2018 8:24:47 GMT -5
It seems that in recent years, they've been written as around the the same age. That's been my impression, as well. Of course, it could just be that a seven year age difference doesn't matter as much once you're past your mid twenties.
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Post by dbutler69 on Nov 24, 2018 9:54:12 GMT -5
I agree with Mark McIntyre. Shorter stories usually aren't as good as long ones, especially when that short, and I like the idea of alternating Batgirl-Robin team-ups with solo stories, so that it doesn't get too stale.
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 24, 2018 14:36:01 GMT -5
My God, this series had some downright unappealing covers, though to be honest, most DC covers in this time were poorly designed and ugly. A more knowledgeable poster than I may be able to explain why the colors were so flat and, yes, I know poor, overworked but underappreciated Ernie Chan/ua was doing a scowful of covers then, but all that aside, couldn't someone at DC have dug through the archives to see how the covers of the passel of DC anthology titles and annuals had been done so artfully back in the day? I mean, was it that important to show Alfred's head, or Kiteman's, or a fresco of the Mad Hatter in all his milllinerical glory in order to reassure the reader that the Don Heck-Vince Colletta art on the lead story wasn't going to be the only exciting story in the book? No Alfred, no sale? Really? Maybe there was a reason Aquaman was never on the cover of More Fun...
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 24, 2018 18:31:17 GMT -5
Interesting.. I was just reading some pre-crisis Action Comics (circa 1980) and Abraxas is Vandal Savage's company... did it reach back that far? I looked it up, and there's not alot of reference on Abraxas... Savage left Action with a 'I have plenty of time.. I foil Superman yet' type ending and didn't appear again for 20+ years.
Google also tells me it's a real oil company, so maybe it's just a name?
Or is it simply a good corporate name for an evil corporation (sorta like Roxxon went from being a Stark rival to owned by the Minotaur and trying to conquer Asgard). Or maybe Savage bought them in story at some point?
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