shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 2, 2022 8:31:53 GMT -5
World's Finest Comics #286 (December 1982)  "When Hell Breaks Loose!" Script: Cary Burkett Pencils: Rich Buckler (layouts) Inks: Sam de la Rosa (finishes) Colors: Gene D'Angelo Letters: Phil Felix Exactly as Dick is getting phased out of the core Bat-titles, this little multi-parter shows up, in which the Bruce Wayne/Dick Grayson partnership is given center stage and treated with the utmost dignity:  It should be no surprise, really, since Marv Wolfman assumed full editorial control of this title just last issue. So even if Len Wein and Gerry Conway really don't know what to do with Dick Grayson at this point, Wolfman is still trying to create some continuity across titles and make the Bruce/Dick relationship drive who Dick is in the pages of New Teen Titans:  (From New Teen Titans Annual #1, on sale this month) He and Burkett even attempt to align this story's continuity carefully with what is currently happening in the core Bat titles:  Though it's odd in this little exchange here that neither Robin nor Superman mention Supes' having shown up in the nick of time to rescue the Titans from dying in space just last month:  It was a big crossover with Action Comics that Wolfman wrote, but that does present another problem with inter-title continuity: in those titles, Superman and the Titans are STILL in space at this moment, so if Wolfman and Burkett really wants to begin uniting all of these titles into one consistent continuity, they've got their work cut out for them. Regardless, it's a valiant effort by Burkett and (I suspect, mostly) Wolfman to finally make a coherent and consistent continuity across the Bat titles, the New Teen Titans, AND World's Finest, but this effort will dry up partway thru next issue, Dick dropping out of the storyline only halfway in. By that point, plans were clearly in place for Dick to pass on the mantle as Jason Todd would be making his debut in Batman #357 at the same time that the third part of this storyline would be hitting stands. Incidentally, while I generally don't discuss the stories themselves in these reviews, HOLY HECK! The KKK tries to lynch Lucius Fox on his front lawn. I'm a little surprised this issue doesn't get discussed more often. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 2, 2022 13:39:28 GMT -5
Batman #355 and Detective Comics #522 (January 1983) A fundamental shift seems to occur here in the Batman titles. If, previously, Dick was Batman's B team, assisting but never sharing the spotlight, he is suddenly getting both less and more attention here, Batman repeatedly and deliberately shoving Dick to the side:  Detective Comics #522 Batman #355and the stories calling explicit attention to this:   These are also some of the only times that Dick's involvement with the Titans has ever been mentioned in the Batman titles. It seems clear that, whereas Conway and Wein didn't know what to do with Robin before, they have a clear mission now: clearly establish for the readers why Dick will go on to prioritize the Titans over Batman, and set Batman up as unstable and distant so that a new sidekick can enter and "fix" him in a way that an aging Dick Grayson cannot. While I can't say that I care for Dick's depiction here -- helpless, needy, and placing the Titans second in priority to Batman when he went to space in order to rescue Kory and referred to them all as a "family" just last month in Titans Annual #1 -- I at least applaud the effort here; Wein and Wolfman finally aligning these titles and working out where Dick Grayson belongs, which is NOT by Batman's side as a bumbling second-rate assistant. Incidentally, if you're wondering what Dick is playing with in the above panels, it was a cheesy plug for the K-Mart Magic Snake being advertised in many DC Comics this same month:  Age appropriate for the boyish Dick Grayson in this title, perhaps, but not for the mature and battle-hardened leader of the New Teen Titans. Side note: Babs Gordon does appear in this issue long enough to state that she is happy her dad is feeling better, but that's really it. She's more of a walking/talking exposition than a character, here. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 2, 2022 17:53:55 GMT -5
Batman #356 (February 1983)  "The Double Life of Hugo Strange" Script: Gerry Conway Pencils: Don Newton Inks: Dick Giordano Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: Ben Oda Now that Wein and Wolfman seem to have decided upon a final destiny for Dick Grayson (his replacement arrives in cameo next issue), Conway appears to be a lot more comfortable allowing Dick to share the spotlight and enjoy some dignity. For one thing, he is drawn and written more as a capable partner than a second-rate sidekick when Bruce goes missing:  For another, he actually gets to save the day for the first time since returning to these titles exactly one year earlier:  And, while he is still being characterized as a lackey, hanging around Wayne Manor with Alfred, both always conveniently present the second the plot calls for them to appear:  Conway also goes out of his way to remind us that Dick does have a life outside of Wayne Manor:  For once, he seems capable enough here to be the same character leading the Titans there. And, perhaps most telling of all, Huge Strange's elaborate ploy to use psychology against Batman largely relies upon using Dick as his primary antagonist, repeatedly attempting to kill Bruce and repeatedly needing Bruce to kill him in response:  While it's never spelled out, that sure implies a deep-seeded tension between them much like what we saw last month, which sort of paves the way for Dick to move on with the Titans and leave a vacancy at Wayne Manor for someone else. For once, it's nice to see Dick Grayson getting the characterization he deserves; a characterization that aligns cleanly with what we've been reading in the pages of New Teen Titans for two years now. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 2, 2022 18:14:49 GMT -5
Detective Comics #523 and Batman #357 (February and March 1983) What is presumably Wein and Wolfman's plan moves into its next phase with these issues, where Dick is nowhere to be found in the A plot. He does not exist at Wayne Manor nor the Batcave, and no one seems to notice his absence either. This is apparently normal now; Batman exists as a solo act. Meanwhile, completely unrelated to the main story (and abruptly inserted) is a side-plot in which Dick Grayson visits his old circus. The single page spent on this in 'Tec #523 is wholly unnecessary teaser, as Dick returns some days later in Batman #357 to finally introduce The Flying Todds to the readers, which is the entire purpose of this plotline: Detective Comics #523 Batman #357  The Dick Grayson depicted in these titles even two months back would have been too inept to even get to the circus on his own, and yet the character we see here exudes confidence, maturity, and the nostalgia of a man twice his age. This is no longer a character without direction; it's a seasoned veteran ready to pass on his torch very soon. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 2, 2022 19:13:42 GMT -5
It's a minor point; but, K-Mart was just selling the Magic Snake, they didn't manufacture it nor were they the sole outlet for it. It's a dual advertisement. In regards to it being boyish, a lot of adults messed around with those things, as stress relievers (or inducers, more often) and desk toys. So, I don't know if I would say that presents Dick as boyish. I'd be willing to bet it was either direct product placement, or DC got a supply of those, for the ads and the guys played with them in the office and put it into the comics on their own. Of course, he would seem more like a detective if it was a Rubik's cube or the later generation ones, with more segments. The Magic Snake and the Pyramid were a lot easier to solve than the Cube.  It wasn't hard to solve; but, the Homer Simpson Rubik puzzle sucked....  It was a royal pain to get the segments to line up properly so you could twist the section. Mine broke apart 3 different times and it was a swift kick in the tuchus to get it back together! |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 2, 2022 20:26:55 GMT -5
I have very mixed feelings on this. I'll try to spell them out here, but I'm definitely going to contradict myself left and right: 1. Batgirl was an icon and, at least in the 1970s, a fan favorite who was then systematically de-powered and deconstructed until she became a forgotten backup feature that no one was reading. This was explicitly done TO the character. I think I've built a close-to-air tight case that there was a clear agenda to bring both her and Robin-but especially her--down so that Batman could look superior in contrast and earn readership back. Sexism may have been a root cause as well, but that's less explicit. 2. Oracle is both a brilliant and personable hero, and an important icon for the disabled. 3. I would have preferred if Oracle had been a totally new character, independent of Batgirl, so that there was a place for both in the DCU. 4. And yet, having a familiar hero become disabled was an important part of representation for the handicapped, as well. She was once an able-bodied person living a different life, and her handicap dramatically changed that, though not necessarily for the worse. My best attempt to reconcile these conflicting thoughts and feelings would be to say I would more whole-heartedly embrace the Oracle identity if Batgirl's decline and injury had been handled with dignity. The clear editorial agenda to knock her down when she was at the top of her game, followed by a clear disregard for her character when she was treated as a sideline character--and arguably an object--in The Killing Joke, was and is very hard to stomach. That a great hero and a great representative of an oft-overlooked community rose out of those ashes is fantastic, but her treatment prior to becoming Oracle remains difficult to stomach. I'm definitely coming from a different place than you... other than the Adam West show, Killing Joke was the first time I had read anything with Batgirl in it... I only have read her Silver Age stuff recently. I think that makes me value your points 2 and 4... and I didn't really have to feel any loss. That, and I don't really LIKE derivative heroes in general. It's one thing to carry on a legacy, but that's not what that is.. it's just not having you're on thing, so you're always framed by your 'source' hero. Maybe if Barbara was something like Spoiler in the first place, editorial never would have felt the need to stamp her down. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 2, 2022 20:51:54 GMT -5
I have very mixed feelings on this. I'll try to spell them out here, but I'm definitely going to contradict myself left and right: 1. Batgirl was an icon and, at least in the 1970s, a fan favorite who was then systematically de-powered and deconstructed until she became a forgotten backup feature that no one was reading. This was explicitly done TO the character. I think I've built a close-to-air tight case that there was a clear agenda to bring both her and Robin-but especially her--down so that Batman could look superior in contrast and earn readership back. Sexism may have been a root cause as well, but that's less explicit. 2. Oracle is both a brilliant and personable hero, and an important icon for the disabled. 3. I would have preferred if Oracle had been a totally new character, independent of Batgirl, so that there was a place for both in the DCU. 4. And yet, having a familiar hero become disabled was an important part of representation for the handicapped, as well. She was once an able-bodied person living a different life, and her handicap dramatically changed that, though not necessarily for the worse. My best attempt to reconcile these conflicting thoughts and feelings would be to say I would more whole-heartedly embrace the Oracle identity if Batgirl's decline and injury had been handled with dignity. The clear editorial agenda to knock her down when she was at the top of her game, followed by a clear disregard for her character when she was treated as a sideline character--and arguably an object--in The Killing Joke, was and is very hard to stomach. That a great hero and a great representative of an oft-overlooked community rose out of those ashes is fantastic, but her treatment prior to becoming Oracle remains difficult to stomach. I'm definitely coming from a different place than you... other than the Adam West show, Killing Joke was the first time I had read anything with Batgirl in it... I only have read her Silver Age stuff recently. I think that makes me value your points 2 and 4... and I didn't really have to feel any loss. That, and I don't really LIKE derivative heroes in general. It's one thing to carry on a legacy, but that's not what that is.. it's just not having you're on thing, so you're always framed by your 'source' hero. Maybe if Barbara was something like Spoiler in the first place, editorial never would have felt the need to stamp her down. Well, she was created for the TV show and, having been in the TV show, she had wide recognition and appeal. It was never going to be a good business move to change that. While she was the dominant half of the headlining duo in Batman Family, it was also the best-selling Bat title by a wide mile. She was loved, recognized, and very good for business. But, in the end, I guess it was easier to blame Batgirl and systematically destroy her than to acknowledge that Batman's low sales at the time were due more to the waning quality of his titles. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 3, 2022 6:33:43 GMT -5
Its funny, it's the same problem Marvel has now, IMO, but for a completely different reason. Then it was editors being stuck in they ways and/or not understanding their readership... now it's all about not endangering the IP, but the result of stale characters that aren't allowed to develop is the same.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Apr 3, 2022 17:58:37 GMT -5
While she was the dominant half of the headlining duo in Batman Family, it was also the best-selling Bat title by a wide mile. Do you know how many copies Batman Family had been selling? |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 4, 2022 9:33:21 GMT -5
While she was the dominant half of the headlining duo in Batman Family, it was also the best-selling Bat title by a wide mile. Do you know how many copies Batman Family had been selling? No. If a Statement of Ownership had ever been printed in one of its issues, I missed it. My bold assertion comes from two things. One is the Statement of Ownership found in Detective Comics #483:  Average number of copies printed in the past 12 months: 367,965. Number of copies printed of the most recent issue: 211,552. I believe 500,000 was the average sales number for major books around this time period, right? Either way, if the most recent issue is over 150,000 copies lower than the yearly average, that would suggest sales have declined by over 300,000 over the past year. When the statement of ownership rolls around again next year, I'll be curious to see if merging Batman Family into this book did indeed boost sales the way it was intended to. and the other stems from the well-documented discussion to merge Batman Family and Detective Comics because BF had strong sales while 'Tec was on the slate for cancellation. This link may provide some information that would be useful. However, my network at work is very over-eager in blocking things, so I am not able to view it myself. It sort of amazes me that no website has ever attempted to collect all published Statements of Ownership. That's pretty important historical data. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 4, 2022 22:55:14 GMT -5
Comichron does that I believe.. that have numbers going back a long way... pretty sure that's where they come from...
hmm.. the site seems to have gone commerical, and is FAR less good than it use to be, but at least the 60s info on the statements of ownership were easy to find... I suspect others are there somewhere.
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Post by tonebone on Apr 5, 2022 10:09:19 GMT -5
Its funny, it's the same problem Marvel has now, IMO, but for a completely different reason. Then it was editors being stuck in they ways and/or not understanding their readership... now it's all about not endangering the IP, but the result of stale characters that aren't allowed to develop is the same. I really don't think endangering the IP is a concern or even on the radar of current Marvel. A majority of the characters are mostly unrecognizable to me, and whenever they run into a writer's block, they either KILL, UNMASK, or REPLACE the characters. They are creatively bankrupt, and are terrible stewards of these characters that have been around for 60-80 years. I have been reading comics for 50 years now, and every time I pick up a new comic, I am completely befuddled. However, I can pick up a Captain America at any point from the 40's to the 90's and it pretty much feels familiar. I think the majority of Marvel's characters bear little or no resemblance to the characters MILLIONS of people have now been exposed to in pop culture. A million missed opportunities for picking up new readers. |
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Post by tonebone on Apr 5, 2022 10:19:05 GMT -5
While she was the dominant half of the headlining duo in Batman Family, it was also the best-selling Bat title by a wide mile. Do you know how many copies Batman Family had been selling? According to Mike's Amazing... Detective 483, the last with the Batman Family title, circulated 129901. Issue 489 was only 79000... pretty soon, the dollar "Batman Family" changed back to a regular sized comic. In contrast, A year earlier, 469, before the Dollar Comic era, the circulation was 140000 or so. |
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Post by MDG on Apr 5, 2022 10:40:40 GMT -5
I think the majority of Marvel's characters bear little or no resemblance to the characters MILLIONS of people have now been exposed to in pop culture. A million missed opportunities for picking up new readers. Yeah, but this has been a problem maybe since the mid-80s: an occasional reader, a curious reader, a kid w/ their parents can't go into a shop and easily find a current issue of Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, Thor, or other flagship character that meets their expectations and/or doesn't drop them in the middle of a story that they can't figure out. |
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Post by chaykinstevens on Apr 6, 2022 11:17:58 GMT -5
The filing date of the statement of ownership in Detective Comics #483 was October 1 1978. I don't know how long it would take for the sales figures to be known to DC, but the issue closest to filing date might have been #479 or 480. The DC explosion had increased the cover price from 35c to 50c and met with resistance on the less popular series, as readers on a budget would have been able to afford fewer titles. Sad if Detective was selling just one in three copies printed, as I thought the issues since #471 were some of the best stuff from DC at the time.
I had a look at some of the other figures from DC statements of ownership in that year:
Superman average 223k, latest 249k
Action Comics 184k, 213k
JLA 127k, 136k (had ceased to be double sized)
Batman 125k, ? (couldn't find a copy of the SoO online to check the latest figure - does anyone have a copy of Batman #310 to hand?)
Wonder Woman 124k, 193k (strange increase, as the print run had decreased and the TV show had already been running for years)
Sgt Rock 123k, 93k
Brave and Bold 122k, 206k (sales would have fluctuated with guest star, but this seems strangely high)
Unknown Soldier 117k, 90k
Flash 116k, 117k
Weird War Tales 114k,76k
Ghosts 100k, 67k
House of Mystery 76k, 66k (down by less than the other mystery/war series because the pre-explosion issues had been dollar comics)
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