shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 9, 2022 21:32:28 GMT -5
Interesting side-note as I return to this thread after so many months away: The cover to Wonder Woman #300 (February 1983):  It's a simple anniversary cover. Most of these characters don't even appear within. And yet it's published at a critical moment in Robin's history where Dick Grayson is being set up to move into his own identity and transition away from Batman. Note how effectively the Ed Hannigan cover fortells this:  Batman is nowhere near the Justice League, and yet Dick seems to be moving alongside Batman and yet away from Batman (and towards the Titans) at the same time. While Ed Hannigan had no particular reason to be aware of this important transition, Marv Wolfman was editing this book at the time and may have suggested it. Certainly, it's the primary focus of the back half of the gatefold cover. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 9, 2022 21:50:27 GMT -5
New Teen Titans #28 (March 1983) "Terra in the Night" Script: Marv Wolfman Pencils: George Pérez Inks: Romeo Tanghal Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: John Costanza Grade: n/a (only tracking Dick Grayson's progression in this story) Here's where Wolfman finally acknowledges the multiple lives Dick is living across two franchises, as well as makes his best case as to why Dick is going to have to give some of them up very soon:  If the cheesecake pencils aren't enough for you, Donna will go on to suggest that Kory "comfort" Dick tonight and take his mind off of things. Once Kory does exactly that, Dick has moved on from having any concerns in regard to Batman -- it's all about the current Titans problems. This is Dick's home and family now; these are the people rooting for Dick and working tirelessly to help him. This is where Dick belongs. It's also not lost on me that we see Dick moving in this direction at exactly the same point that Terra is being introduced. The team is gaining a new adolescent teammate just as Dick is transitioning out of a role he has played since he was an adolescent. In contrast to Terra's youth, Dick seems...old; possibly the oldest member of the team. In every possible way, we're getting the subtle message that it's time for Dick to move on. Of course, I can say all of this with the comfort of hindsight. I wonder how evident any of this would have been to someone who didn't know why The Flying Todds had just been introduced in the pages of Batman. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 9, 2022 22:12:09 GMT -5
Detective Comics #524 "Deathgrip" Script: Gerry Conway Pencils: Don Newton Inks: Dick Giordano Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: Todd Klein Grade: n/a (only tracking Dick Grayson's progression in this story) One of my favorite Batman stories of all time, but not because of Dick Grayson, Babs Gordon, Jason Todd, nor even Batman, so I guess I'll keep that to myself. Instead, let's discuss what this issue means for The Batman Family: Essentially, Dick and Babs are just narrative tools at this point. Babs is still hanging around just to comment on and worry about Commissioner Gordon's health:  That's her sole line of dialogue in this issue.And Dick is just blatently and eagerly passing the torch as loudly and as slowly as possible, this time throwing a high society party for The Flying Todds because they are so amazing:  I'm not sure what three carnies would ever want with a fancy party amongst the aristocracy. Really, what is the point of all this? Don't you think Commissioner Gordon and Babs drove home wondering what the hell that party was all about? Was Vicki Vale really going to stand around for this, especially when we clearly see how busy she is editing Picture News in this very scene?  Of course, it's all just an excuse to get to this point, fatally intertwining the lives of The Todds with the lives of Batman and Robin:  But I do have to give Conway, Newton, and Wein some credit: they play Jason so very close to their chests, always keeping him out of the primary focus. Our eyes are never drawn to him, and he's easy to forget. I doubt I ever would have suspected where this franchise was heading at this point. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 9, 2022 22:18:23 GMT -5
Really? I mean, I've never read the comics, but people didn't guess introducing another acrobat family with a sidekick aged boy was setting something up? I guess it's hard to ignore foreknowledge, but seems pretty obvious, especially since, as you say, it doesn't make any sense.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 9, 2022 22:27:56 GMT -5
New Teen Titans #29 (March 1983) "First Blood!" Script: Marv Wolfman Pencils: George Pérez Inks: Romeo Tanghal Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: John Costanza Grade: n/a (only tracking Dick Grayson's progression in this story) Dick Grayson may be getting utterly underused in the Batman franchise at this point, functioning as a vehicle to set up Jason Todd as the next in line and little else, but Wolfman is more than making up for that in the pages of the Titans, where Robin's continued stress and irritibility is beginning to upset just about everyone. Once again, Wonder Girl spells it out for us:  Gotta love those hot pink shorts and flats...No major change/progression here, but Wolfman is definitely making it clear that something is about to change for Dick. Were I reading at the time, I might have suspected it was going to go the other way, Dick leaving the Titans because he is overcommitted and hurting everyone, instead establishing a new Batman Family of sorts where he and Bruce, aided by The Flying Todds, take down crime all together. Nah. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 9, 2022 22:29:22 GMT -5
Really? I mean, I've never read the comics, but people didn't guess introducing another acrobat family with a sidekick aged boy was setting something up? I guess it's hard to ignore foreknowledge, but seems pretty obvious, especially since, as you say, it doesn't make any sense. It would have been painfully obvious had they given any attention to Jason up to this point, but he is always off to the side, out of focus. I think the con might have worked for an issue or two. Once the Todds know Bruce Wayne is Batman though, it might have been more obvious where all this was going. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 9, 2022 22:51:24 GMT -5
Batman #358 (April 1983) "Don't Mess With Killer Croc!" Script: Gerry Conway Pencils: Curt Swan Inks: Rodin Rodriguez Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: Ben Oda Grade: n/a (only tracking Dick Grayson's progression in this story) What begins with typical usage of Robin as supporting cast:  and as an echoing chamber, offering Bruce a convenient excuse to explain his thoughts, plans, and obligatory recaps:  takes an unexpected turn when all the pent up frustration we've been seeing Dick unload on the Titans in these past months finally comes out on Bruce as well:  Dick is on his way out, and this little moment here clearly telegraphs what's coming next:  I'd think this is the moment where anyone paying any kind of attention would have to realize that Jason is being prepped to take Dick's place. One thing about Robin's role in this issue that irks me, though: he spends precious time that we're clearly told he does not have hanging out while Batman interrogates a stooge, sitting by a fire while Bruce monologues, and speaking to Trina Todd on Bruce's behalf in order to protect Bruce's identity, but when Batman FINALLY goes to take down Croc, Robin is nowhere to be seen:  He stuck around for everything but the good part. I guess Dick still has night classes? I mean, it's not like Dick isn't personally invested in this fight. He just figured out that Croc is the one shaking down the circus for insurance money. But I guess this is Batman's title, and if Dick is on the way out, then he can't be allowed to win over readers with awesome heroics at this point. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 9, 2022 23:18:11 GMT -5
I don’t think you really get Vicki Vale.
OF COURSE she wants to hang out with carnies! I wouldn’t be surprised if the circus gala at Wayne Manor was totally Vicki’s idea!
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 9, 2022 23:20:46 GMT -5
Of course, the most amazing thing about these issues is Curt Swan’s Killer Croc. I have long been fascinated by the Goldbergian process that allowed this to happen.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Dec 10, 2022 5:44:14 GMT -5
New Teen Titans #38 (March 1983) "Terra in the Night" I think that should say #28. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 10, 2022 22:07:16 GMT -5
That's interesting... if you didn't know better, you'd think in that panel that Batman is 'letting' Robin run the Titans so he can use them when he needs them. Clearly, that wasn't the case.. and, in fact, I don't really the two ever really overlapping, other than when Jason dies, and when they fight.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 11, 2022 1:54:03 GMT -5
in fact, I don't really the two ever really overlapping, other than when Jason dies, and when they fight. The continuities were almost totally divorced from one another while Paul Levitz (and later Dick Giordano) were editing. The Batman titles almost go out of their way not to acknowledge Dick's role with The Titans. However, that changes once Len Wein takes over as editor. After all, he and Wolfman (writing The Titans) were old friends who broke into the business together. So suddenly there is a lot of minor cross-continuity, as well as consistent characterization for Dick, just as he is about to make the hand-off to Jason Todd. |
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Post by shaxper on Dec 11, 2022 8:00:37 GMT -5
Detective Comics #525 (April 1983) "Confrontation" Script: Gerry Conway Pencils: Dan Jurgens Inks: Dick Giordano Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: Ben Oda Grade: n/a (only tracking Dick Grayson's progression in this story) You might recall that, last issue, Dick hung around Batman in the background, serving as the echoing chamber Bruce needed whenever he felt a monologue coming on, only to be mysteriously absent for the big confrontation with Killer Croc. It was easy to write this off as being when Dick needed to get back to college or to Titans Tower or something. After all, we've been told repeatedly in the pages of New Teen Titans that Dick is overwhelmed: serving as Batman's sidekick, a solo hero, a college student, a circus worker, and the leader of the Titans at the same time. It's amazing he had so much time to waste on Batman in the first place. But no. Dick is still here.  He just...sat out the big climax of the issue for some reason? I get it. If Dick is on his way out anyway, it's counterproductive to have him share the spotlight where he might actually earn some new affection from the readership and make them resent his being replaced. It's just that this sidelining is getting so obvious and frustrating. Check out the very next page, where Robin is effectively a pattern on the wallpaper:  Does anyone even notice he's standing there?  "...but!...but!" "Shut up, Robin. Daddy and The Commissioner are talking." Of course Dick is given one prominent role to play in this issue: the guy who passes the torch extremely slowly and extremely loudly:   It's a nice touch, at least, to have Jason primarily associate Robin with The Titans when, "What's Batman really like?" would have served the foreshadowing more conveniently. Unfortunate, though, that this is our first real glimpse of Jason Todd as anything other than a shadow off to the side of a panel, and yet neither his actions nor his persona do anything to earn our interest in the character. He's just an acrobaticly-trained warm body being preppred to wear the costume until Doug Moench gets a hold of him in three months' time. "Golly." Side note: I wonder if this issue marks the final appearance of Robin's motorcycle.  Nothing said, "I'm an independent, mostly grown hero, but not awesome enough to get my own Batmobile" like the twin motorcycles Dick and Babs sported throughout the '70s. Tim Drake will get his own Robin motorcycle in 2004, but that's two decades and two Robins away. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 11, 2022 18:03:32 GMT -5
I"m finding this really interesting.. I had no idea that was Jason Todd's origin, to be honest.. I had in my head he was committing a crime of some sort and Batman decided to save him... or does that happen later?
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Post by shaxper on Dec 11, 2022 20:31:03 GMT -5
I"m finding this really interesting.. I had no idea that was Jason Todd's origin, to be honest.. I had in my head he was committing a crime of some sort and Batman decided to save him... or does that happen later? That's the Post-Crisis origin, provided by Max Collins in about four more years. Totally different approach to the character. We should be getting there soon enough. Dick leaves the Batman franchise next month (and we'll see even less of Babs Gordon around), so we're about to start fast-forwarding quite a bit! |
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