shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 5, 2023 21:58:13 GMT -5
I seriously hated Miller's take on Catwoman/Selina, both in Dark Knight and Year One. The man has a serious fixation with prostitution. I think a fair way to summarize Miller's thinking would be: Gotham City is a corrupt place that robs people of their innocence. It murders parents and turns women into sluts and prostitutes. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 5, 2023 23:04:24 GMT -5
They only way Miller can think of for a woman to be corrupted is a descent into prostitution
Lazy.
Also lazy? Miller’s characterization of Selina in The Dark Knight Returns.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jan 6, 2023 3:35:51 GMT -5
I seriously hated Miller's take on Catwoman/Selina, both in Dark Knight and Year One. The man has a serious fixation with prostitution. This is one of several reasons why, to me, Mike Barr's stories feature the "real" Batman, while I consider Miller's take some kind of Elseworlds stuff. |
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Post by zaku on Jan 6, 2023 5:04:44 GMT -5
I seriously hated Miller's take on Catwoman/Selina, both in Dark Knight and Year One. The man has a serious fixation with prostitution. Well it didn't last right? Or yes? I've no idea what is still canon nowadays ^^;; |
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,874
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Post by shaxper on Jan 6, 2023 7:11:45 GMT -5
I seriously hated Miller's take on Catwoman/Selina, both in Dark Knight and Year One. The man has a serious fixation with prostitution. This is one of several reasons why, to me, Mike Barr's stories feature the "real" Batman, while I consider Miller's take some kind of Elseworlds stuff. That was, in fact, the original plan. However, Denny O'Neil was hired as editor primarily to boost sales, so when Miller's Dark Knight Returns became a run-away success, it and Year One suddenly became the framework for the Post-Crisis Batman. Eventually, Marv Wolfman moved the franchise away from that, but that was three years later. |
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,874
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Post by shaxper on Jan 6, 2023 7:14:50 GMT -5
I seriously hated Miller's take on Catwoman/Selina, both in Dark Knight and Year One. The man has a serious fixation with prostitution. Well it didn't last right? Or yes? I've no idea what is still canon nowadays ^^;; It did and it didn't. Ultimately, I've argued that Year One served as more of an inspiration and less of a definitive "this is what happened and this is who Batman is," for the Post-Crisis Bataman francise, but I'll also concede that the Post-Crisis Batman office is an ugly mess of contradictions that can never be totally straightened out. Fortunately, for the purposes of looking at the Post-Crisis Batman Family, the contradictions are less plentiful and less problematic. Also, keep in mind, that the DC Universe has since been rebooted again (a soft reboot in 1994 and again in 2005, and a hard reboot in 2011), so I have no idea what is canon nowadays either! |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 6, 2023 7:32:51 GMT -5
Don't forget future state in 2019, which was kinda a re-boot
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Post by zaku on Jan 6, 2023 7:39:23 GMT -5
Well it didn't last right? Or yes? I've no idea what is still canon nowadays ^^;; It did and it didn't. Ultimately, I've argued that Year One served as more of an inspiration and less of a definitive "this is what happened and this is who Batman is," for the Post-Crisis Bataman francise, but I'll also concede that the Post-Crisis Batman office is an ugly mess of contradictions that can never be totally straightened out. Fortunately, for the purposes of looking at the Post-Crisis Batman Family, the contradictions are less plentiful and less problematic. Also, keep in mind, that the DC Universe has since been rebooted again (a soft reboot in 1994 and again in 2005, and a hard reboot in 2011), so I have no idea what is canon nowadays either! I googled it and it seems that after Dark Nights: Metal everything is canon. Like, everything. By the way, while googling I found this article which put a positive spin about "Catwoman-as-a-prostitute". While I find it relevant only to the United States (it is one of the few countries in the world where sex workers are technically criminals, along with Sharia-enforced countries), I find some of the reasoning expressed in it interesting. CATWOMAN AND THE CASE FOR DECRIMINALIZATION OF SEX WORK |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 6, 2023 7:41:01 GMT -5
Future State was what remained of the '5G' event after editorial changes, it introduced Yara Flor, Jase Fox,brought Jo Mullein into the main DCU, etc. IT was kinda sorta the aftermath of the 'Dark Metal' stuff, which itself was a big multiversal cluster.
Then there's the current 'Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths'... Not sure how much impact that's having, since I have no idea what continuity is in DC now.. but it involves (from what I've read, I don't have the books) the Justice League 'dying' but really each being trapped in their own reality they have to escape. Of course that didn't tie into Nightwing or Action COmics at all, so I only know from reading about it.
I do miss the legit shared universes of the past, for all their issues.
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Post by zaku on Jan 6, 2023 8:31:32 GMT -5
I googled it and it seems that after Dark Nights: Metal everything is canon. Like, everything. Even this one  |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,874
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Post by shaxper on Jan 6, 2023 14:11:30 GMT -5
It did and it didn't. Ultimately, I've argued that Year One served as more of an inspiration and less of a definitive "this is what happened and this is who Batman is," for the Post-Crisis Bataman francise, but I'll also concede that the Post-Crisis Batman office is an ugly mess of contradictions that can never be totally straightened out. Fortunately, for the purposes of looking at the Post-Crisis Batman Family, the contradictions are less plentiful and less problematic. Also, keep in mind, that the DC Universe has since been rebooted again (a soft reboot in 1994 and again in 2005, and a hard reboot in 2011), so I have no idea what is canon nowadays either! I googled it and it seems that after Dark Nights: Metal everything is canon. Like, everything. I've heard that, but it doesn't help to explain conflicting information. So Selina Kyle both is and is not a sex worker? So Batman both does and does not know who killed his parents? So Dick Grayson became Robin at ages 8 and 12? Obviously, DC is just trying to sell books any way they can, but for we folks who believe in the artistic merit of this stuff, it's utterly nonsensical, isn't it? Fascinating. I love the outside reading you keep assigning to this class! |
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Post by zaku on Jan 6, 2023 15:04:54 GMT -5
So Selina Kyle both is and is not a sex worker? A Heisenberg's sex worker ^_^ |
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,874
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Post by shaxper on Jan 6, 2023 15:05:44 GMT -5
So Selina Kyle both is and is not a sex worker? A Heisenberg's sex worker ^_^ Quantum sex work. |
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Post by zaku on Jan 6, 2023 15:29:55 GMT -5
A Heisenberg's sex worker ^_^ Quantum sex work.  Seriously, I can also understand the logic of "Everything is in continuity". Each Crisis happened because continuity inconsistencies had reached a critical mass and it was necessary to "clean up" (well above all they had happened to make money, but let's say that technically the aim was to "simplify" the DC universe). But after a while even the authors were fed up. Not being able to write a story because the idea behind it would have been contradicted by another story that happened in some unknown comic, or write retcon after retcon to justify this or that inconsistency. Eventually continuity becomes a monster that feeds on itself. Simply the mass of published comics is such that it is impossible to maintain any kind of consistency. At this point the writers take this or that element of continuity as an a la carte menu and decide that it is relevant to the particular story they are writing. But that could all change for the next story. |
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Post by zaku on Jan 6, 2023 15:54:53 GMT -5
Fascinating. I love the outside reading you keep assigning to this class! Why, thank you!  I could write a couple of lines about how prostitution is seen in American fiction vs European fiction, but I don't want to derail the thread!! |
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