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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 24, 2018 10:45:46 GMT -5
Right. It's not that educated, determined shoppers can't figure out how all the myriad TPB interface with each other. It's that every additional obstacle between the shelf and the cash register drops buyers and results in lower sales. Marvel is re-releasing old work in an "Epic Collection" line which uses the Epic Comics logo for material that was published by Marvel Comics. Confusing! And then they are skipping broad sections. Check out this confusing library of current (and near future) titles: And comic fans (lapsed or current), who will track 80 years of stories to find the exact panel that explains why hype man's uniform was green in this story rather than blue without it just being a colorist error bit explaining it's narrative purpose or can name 112 different types of kryptonite and what they do then say they don't like to do homework to be able to read new comics? I find that a bit surreal. Comics are a niche product sold in dinosaur formats, in retail ghettos where new customers don't go unless they are already regular comics purchasers and which do not exist at all in large areas of the United States (approximately 5000 retail Diamond accounts spread out over 50 states, and not evenly spread out either-there are 23 Diamond retail accounts within a 45 minute drive of me all within 2 metropolitan areas within 1 state, meaning there are other areas with zero retail accounts present to sell to potential customers). Numbering is not the reason they are not selling to new or lapsed customers. It's not even in the top 100 obstacles for achieving sales growth the industry is facing. It's a byproduct of abandoning the mass market to appeal to the hardcore fanboy customer base for sure, but fixing numbering issues wouldn't even produce a register-able uptick in sales for the industry because all those potential customers who never see comics now, would never see comics with the so called numbering issues fixed. And you can't sell product to customers who never see it no matter how it's numbered. It's a two hour drive in any direction to the nearest comic shop for me. If it weren't for Amazon or digital I would read no comics. And that first paragraph...yep. Fans can spend hours hunting down the first lettering credit for creator X or obsess over the cameo in the shadows of Platypus Man in The Unwilling Retainers #248...but heaven forfend they have to take thirty seconds to look up which trade paperback they want. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2018 10:53:27 GMT -5
It isn't thirty seconds. And it isn't always apparent or simple. And, for the record, I don't obsess over cameos or lettering credits from decades ago. You're generalising and making assumptions.
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Post by rberman on Dec 24, 2018 11:10:22 GMT -5
It isn't thirty seconds. And it isn't always apparent or simple. And, for the record, I don't obsess over cameos or lettering credits from decades ago. You're generalising and making assumptions. Nor can the Big Two survive on a buyer base for which you and I are the typical customer. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2018 11:16:35 GMT -5
Very true.
Patronising comments about '30-second searches' are untrue. If I was the only one complaining, I'd chalk it up to grumpiness, but I've come across this a lot. Strangely, no-one complains about The Walking Dead. Or Judge Dredd: The Complete Case Files.
If the bookstores can't even work it out, what chance do any of us have?
And the "homework" comment I've made is, I believe, apt. No "homework" was required to pick up Essential or Showcase volumes. We lead busy lives. Some of us have jobs that can be very busy, particularly at Xmas. I'd rather not spend time working out which volume follows on from a previous one.
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Post by chadwilliam on Dec 24, 2018 15:19:29 GMT -5
Very true. Patronising comments about '30-second searches' are untrue. If I was the only one complaining, I'd chalk it up to grumpiness, but I've come across this a lot. Strangely, no-one complains about The Walking Dead. Or Judge Dredd: The Complete Case Files. If the bookstores can't even work it out, what chance do any of us have? And the "homework" comment I've made is, I believe, apt. No "homework" was required to pick up Essential or Showcase volumes. We lead busy lives. Some of us have jobs that can be very busy, particularly at Xmas. I'd rather not spend time working out which volume follows on from a previous one. The fact that there are schmucks who think it's their responsibility to accommodate a company's poor craftsmanship is probably why there is such poor craftsmanship to begin with. Spelling errors? No big deal - how long does it take a reader to look up the correct spelling online? This comic doesn't actually have the character on its cover inside the comic? uh, ever hear of going online and reading a review which would have told you that? I remember coming across someone online who complained that the comic they bought (I think it might have been 'Mars Attacks Judge Dredd') didn't actually match the title of the book (it either had nothing to do with Mars Attacks or nothing to do with Judge Dredd). Someone actually responded to his complaint with 'uh, ever hear of variant covers?' as if expecting to find Judge Dredd somewhere inside a comic called 'Mars Attacks Judge Dredd' with him on the cover is a completely unreasonable expectation. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2018 15:31:49 GMT -5
Indeed, Chad. I mean, I know nothing of this Mars Attacks/Dredd book, but had I seen it on the shelves, I'd have expected Dredd VS Mars Attacks. The only time I wouldn't is if there was a joke cover (featuring, say, She-Hulk, but with the tagline, "She doesn't actually appear in this book.").
And your spelling comment is spot on. Why not have no commitment to spelling properly? After all, I have a dictionary on my smartphone. It'll only take me a minute or two to find the correct spelling. And what if I'm reading on a train or plane? No big deal, I'll just use my meagre mobile data - which could be used for something important - to look up a spelling or trade.
I just want simplicity. I realise I do repeat myself (it's a flaw), but after Xmas, it will feel good to jump back aboard The Walking Dead. It'll feel good to head to the bookstore and simply pick up Vol. #15. No homework needed. Funnily enough, I'm also at Vol. 15 for Judge Dredd: The Case Files. And if I forget, I have a pretty good idea as the Dredd books have the chronology on the front, plus the years in which the adventures take place (Dredd ages in real time).
One can approach it in different ways. The city centre where I buy most books is not a good place to pick up WiFi. My mobile data is meagre. But, hey, some think I should do it, anyway, just because the companies are doing what they are doing.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 5, 2019 9:23:54 GMT -5
Maybe what this all comes down to is customer service. If you have something wrong with an apple computer and go to their store to repair it, they are falling over themselves to help. But as @mrp says, this is a niche hobby and they don't have to care about misspelled TPB's or badly numbered collections. They depend on the geeks that will never stop buying comics ( us) to take the bad and shut their mouths.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 11:37:58 GMT -5
Maybe what this all comes down to is customer service. If you have something wrong with an apple computer and go to their store to repair it, they are falling over themselves to help. But as @mrp says, this is a niche hobby and they don't have to care about misspelled TPB's or badly numbered collections. They depend on the geeks that will never stop buying comics ( us) to take the bad and shut their mouths. I know what you mean. Well, I did get the correct Darth Vader volume. I did "test" the Waterstones staff member (he was confused, too). I think I know where to go from here. Despite some pedantic criticisms in this topic, I often revert back to the eBay/comiXology argument. You'll find Batman #309 easily if an eBay seller has it or comiXology are selling it. Same with Fantastic Four #400 or whatever. But finding Wolverine #1 or Darth Vader #3 is going to involve effort that maybe, just maybe, some people don't have the time or inclination for. And I can't necessarily blame them. Elsewhere on the web, I have come across people who give up (these are the casual types, but surely there'd be a benefit in them becoming full-time readers?). And it does suck the fun out of it. I don't mind helping a guy I know - he's more into the movies and TV shows - but I can't always answer him easily. There shouldn't be "homework". |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 5, 2019 12:52:43 GMT -5
It might be take it or leave it in this hobby. Remember , they are making billions from the movies.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 14:13:32 GMT -5
Maybe what this all comes down to is customer service. If you have something wrong with an apple computer and go to their store to repair it, they are falling over themselves to help. But as @mrp says, this is a niche hobby and they don't have to care about misspelled TPB's or badly numbered collections. They depend on the geeks that will never stop buying comics ( us) to take the bad and shut their mouths. I know what you mean. Well, I did get the correct Darth Vader volume. I did "test" the Waterstones staff member (he was confused, too). I think I know where to go from here. Despite some pedantic criticisms in this topic, I often revert back to the eBay/comiXology argument. You'll find Batman #309 easily if an eBay seller has it or comiXology are selling it. Same with Fantastic Four #400 or whatever. But finding Wolverine #1 or Darth Vader #3 is going to involve effort that maybe, just maybe, some people don't have the time or inclination for. And I can't necessarily blame them. Elsewhere on the web, I have come across people who give up (these are the casual types, but surely there'd be a benefit in them becoming full-time readers?). And it does suck the fun out of it. I don't mind helping a guy I know - he's more into the movies and TV shows - but I can't always answer him easily. There shouldn't be "homework". So a customer who looks for episode x of a tv series without knowing the season number is going to have the same problem. They don't number episodes of series individually. If you find an episode and want to look for more, you need to know the season number and the episode number. No different than knowing the volume number and the issue number. It's pretty standard as to how to do it in serialized storytelling in the mass market. If you lack the skill set to search for how comics are currently sold, you are going to lack the skill set to navigate mass market entertainment in the 21st century, especially as sold digitally. To me it all sounds like my grandparents complaining they couldn't set the clock on the VCR because things got too complicated and different from their day and it was so much better then. -M |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 5, 2019 14:23:25 GMT -5
I know what you mean. Well, I did get the correct Darth Vader volume. I did "test" the Waterstones staff member (he was confused, too). I think I know where to go from here. Despite some pedantic criticisms in this topic, I often revert back to the eBay/comiXology argument. You'll find Batman #309 easily if an eBay seller has it or comiXology are selling it. Same with Fantastic Four #400 or whatever. But finding Wolverine #1 or Darth Vader #3 is going to involve effort that maybe, just maybe, some people don't have the time or inclination for. And I can't necessarily blame them. Elsewhere on the web, I have come across people who give up (these are the casual types, but surely there'd be a benefit in them becoming full-time readers?). And it does suck the fun out of it. I don't mind helping a guy I know - he's more into the movies and TV shows - but I can't always answer him easily. There shouldn't be "homework". So a customer who looks for episode x of a tv series without knowing the season number is going to have the same problem. They don't number episodes of series individually. If you find an episode and want to look for more, you need to know the season number and the episode number. No different than knowing the volume number and the issue number. It's pretty standard as to how to do it in serialized storytelling in the mass market. If you lack the skill set to search for how comics are currently sold, you are going to lack the skill set to navigate mass market entertainment in the 21st century, especially as sold digitally. To me it all sounds like my grandparents complaining they couldn't set the clock on the VCR because things got too complicated and different from their day and it was so much better then. -M This is true. I often look for TV episodes on the net and it involves a bit of a search. But I don't know if a non comic fan will think it's worth the hassle to find " That issue where Scott was banging the white queen who was dressed as his wife" in a search. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 14:28:50 GMT -5
Not a valid comparison at all.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 14:30:55 GMT -5
Not a valid comparison at all. How so? You are looking for a single installment within a serialized series? What's different? -M |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 5, 2019 14:37:42 GMT -5
Not a valid comparison at all. You will put in the work for something that you think is worth the trouble. The Comic industry is at its lowest sale per unit in its history. In the 80's , almost all the Marvel books were selling 100K or over. Not now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 14:44:20 GMT -5
Not a valid comparison at all. You will put in the work for something that you think is worth the trouble. The Comic industry is at its lowest sale per unit in its history. In the 80's , almost all the Marvel books were selling 100K or over. Not now. print runs were over 100K, actual sales were often less, and unsold copies were mostly returnable still. And those sales were spread over the direct and mass market, not just in the direct (though direct had the higher percentage of sales and mass only had returnability, so who knows how many of those sold in direct were reaching final customers and not sitting in back issue bins of comic shops). Let's take off the rose colored nostalgia glasses when looking a tthe past and see how it was not how we think we remember it was. -M |
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