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Post by rberman on Mar 9, 2019 7:31:49 GMT -5
Squadron Supreme: Death of a UniverseGruenwald makes a mistake, early on, when Overmind bets on the Blue Gladiatrix, then aids the Red Gladiatrix to win his bet. Wha?  He did the same thing in Contest of Champions, when he lost track of which team people were on and had one side win the contest, when the score was actually tied. He was aided by Bill Mantlo and Stephen Grant on that mini; so, not sure whose mistake it truly was. The more general mistake of Contest of the Champions was setting it up as a 'best of four' competition in the first place. Who does that, Grandmaster? Obviously you should have an odd number of contests to avoid the possibility of a tie. As for this Graphic Novel: From your summary, and despite the presence of a recap, it seems to rely heavily on the orginal maxi-series, suggesting that it was originally intended as a regular series but got jumped up to Graphic Novel status during the chaos of those days. Even a big-time series like X-Men knew to make a graphic novel like "God Loves, Man Kills" self-contained rather than an integral part of an ongoing story. For years it wasn't even certain that GLMK took place in regular Marvel continuity. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 9, 2019 11:24:30 GMT -5
Marvel's Graphic Novel program had become pretty haphazard, by that point. It did't take long, from its original conception, for it to be a place for rather mediocre stories, much like Marvel Fanfare. By this point, they just seem to put them out at random, with little point in using the format, other than it was available and they could charge more. They were also churning out Prestige format books, with no good reason for using said format.
Death of Captain Marvel included a lot of recapping of his comics; but, it was fit within the narrative of his reflecting on his life. Here, the recap was necessary for those who hadn't read the maxi-series, which was probably quite a few.
DC did a far better job at promoting things like this and in using a graphic album format for stories that matched it, like Son of the Demon. Both all but abandoned the album format, for the Prestige or hardcover format, for more standard sizing.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Mar 10, 2019 18:08:37 GMT -5
Captain America #314 Cover by John Byrne and Dennis Janke, swiping/homaging a bit from Dick Sprang. Byrne has stated in his online forum that he had nothing to do with this cover. It's probably by Paul Neary. |
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Post by badwolf on Mar 10, 2019 19:21:34 GMT -5
Captain America #314Cover by John Byrne and Dennis Janke, swiping/homaging a bit from Dick Sprang. Byrne has stated in his online forum that he had nothing to do with this cover. It's probably by Paul Neary. Weird, my ComicBase also says it was by Byrne, but it doesn't look like his at all. Wonder where the misinformation originates. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 13, 2019 9:11:38 GMT -5
Quasar #13-16    Creative Team: Mark Gruenwald-wrote it, Mike Manley-drew it, Dan Panosian inked it, Janice Chiang-lettered it, Paul Becton & Rene Witterstaetter colored it, Len Kaminski and Howard Mackie edited it Synopsis: I'll be honest; I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this. Quasar is now the Protector of the Universe and is visiting Mar-Vell's grave, when his cosmic DEW Line, around the Earth, is tripped and he rushes home, to encounter the Squadron Supreme, who have landed, after the events of Death of a Universe....  Cue all of the cliches....yadda-yadda-yadda....fight each other.....someone comes to reason....not on their Earth.....Quasar aids....blah, blah, blah.  Quasar takes them to stay at Project Pegasus and gets on with his life. Overmind has been acting like pre-FF Namor and wakes up.....  He finds his ship and puts the Squadron under his control and sails off to conquer something. Hyperion is immune and ends up with Quasar, as he travels across the cosmos, mining every cosmic character Marvel had (or nearly), showing that Gruenwald was not on Jim Starlin's level, though he throws in a lot of in-jokes, like Makkari, when hearing that the group is the Ex-Squadron Supreme answers; "Just what we needed, another X group!" The Squadron is mostly background noise, except Hyperion, who turns out to be a lost Eternal. Yeah........ Thoughts: This is Quasar's show and the Squadron just end up being more prominent easter eggs, of which there are tons, in the sequence. Mike Manley's art is fine, though nothing particularly noteworthy. It's all very 90s and Gruenwald over explains things or just breezes past, depending on what page he is on. There is a lot of explaining what the art is showing, which doesn't add to the reading experience. This is mostly just trademark maintenance, if you ask me. The team sticks around as supporting characters, for quite a while, though nothing of real significance is done with them. gruenwald just seemed to want to keep tabs on them. I ignored this series in the 90s and reading it didn't do much for me. I always liked the character; but, he was a supporting guy, at best. Gruenwald got more mileage out of him than you would expect and the series does have a sense of humor, which puts it one up on most of the Marvel line, of the period (DC, too). Worth a read if you like Quasar, not much for Squadron fans; so, I won't cover their other appearances in the series. In 1996, Mark Gruenwald suffered a heart attack and died. He was pretty much the champion for the Squadron, as something other than a DC pastiche and that would be pretty much that for the Squadron, in the regular comics. However, Marvel still had a Gruenwald Squadron publication up its sleeve.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 13, 2019 9:31:18 GMT -5
Squadron Supreme TPB Cover by Alex Ross, who made the Squadron look the best they had, since Perez. Mark Gruenwald unexpectedly died of a heart attack, in 1996. He was 43. It turned out to be a congenital heart defect, that, if detected, might have been manageable and was hereditary, as his father had passed away at a relatively young age. Their was an outpouring of condolences, as Gruenwald was a well-loved figure, at Marvel. He was an enthusiastic cheerleader and merry-maker, prone to pranks and delighting in fun. Stories came out of his appearances at conventions, where he would stomp on the stage, to get the crowd clapping and stomping along; just for the heck of it. I watched a panel, with Gruenwald, Julie Schwartz, Joe Staton, and Terry Collins, discussing adapting comics to tv & movies and vice versa. Schwartz detailed DC's mostly triumphs, while gruenwald had to detail Marvel's string of failures, with Hulk being the one light in the darkness 9leaving aside the mixed animation field). Schwartz was amazed at how little control Marvel had in these projects, which would prove prophetic, as control is ultimately what made Marvel succeed in other media. There were tales of Gruenwald taking returned New Universe covers, wadding them up, and filling his office up with them, like a ball pit at a Chuck E Cheese. Staffers watched the level rise through the office window, until it reached the ceiling. Gruenwald was hardly a superstar writer; but, he was a well liked one and many wanted to honor him. His wish had been that he be cremated and his ashes be mixed with the printing ink of a comic. It sounds absurd; but, marvel had previously mixed blood from the members of KISS in printing ink, for their comic (or so they said; there were pictures of blood being drawn; but, you had to take their word for it). It was decided to honor this wish and the project chosen was a trade paperback reprint of the Squadron Supreme maxi-series. The book was a nice package, with the excellent Alex Ross cover and the entire series finally collected. Fans had been asking for a collection, for a while; but, Marvel was pretty haphazard with trade reprints and Squadron was a cult book, not a major hit. If it didn't have an X in the title, it didn't easily get a trade book. However, they knew this was a gimmick beyond gimmicks. Gruenwald's ashes were mixed with the ink, for the first printing. Editions carried a sticker noting this fact, as Gruenwald was literally buried in his work. The series reads better in a collected format, as you can see more of the over-arcing themes, though the weaknesses also stand out. The shift in artists is rather glaring. However, it was now available for a wider audience and it did much to raise the profile of the series. And that would be that. Until 1998, when someone else decided to play with the toys.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 13, 2019 10:31:22 GMT -5
Squadron Supreme: New World Order Creative Team: Len Kaminski-writer, Anthony Williams-pencils, Andy Lanning-inks, Comicraft-lettering, Tom Smith-colors, Tom Brevoort-edits Synopsis: The Squadron Supreme has finally returned to their Earth; but, find it greatly changed.  The uS is a totalitarian state, using Utopia technologies to control the populace. The government's stormtroopers are the Blue Eagles; fascist bullyboys dressed in the hero's colors...  Arcanna and Whizzer locate their families and Arcanna meets Mysterium, the former Tom Lightner, who changed places with her infant son, Benjamin, as the new sorcerer supreme. he speaks of big cosmic stuff, with the Stranger, the In-Betweener and Dark Phoenix. Whizzer finds Blue Eagles waiting for him and his family is saved by the Nighthawks, a group of stealthy rebels, led by what appears to be a reborn Nighthawk.  Nighthawk's Aerie provides a base for the rebels and sanctuary for Whizzer's family. The rest of the team meet up and pass on what they know. Dr Spectrum tracks down the Skrull, who hadn't been seen since the Squadron's early days. He is known as Skymax and agrees to help fight. There is a big battle and the Squadron fights its way through, to the base of Emil Burbank. he is a pawn of the fascist state, having been controlled through B-Mod. The story ends with a victory; but, a war still to fight. Thoughts: Um.................................it's fine. Really, this is just a jazzed up reboot/repeat, with the Squadron returning to their mess and finding things are status quo-totalitarian rule. There is no middle ground with these bozos: either they are mindless pawns of someone or they are trying to rebuild their world. It's a bit like the Star Wars prequels and sequels, as we just rehash the same plot. Now, this isn't exactly the same plot; but, it is a worn out premise. This is very much a Post-Image, 90s kind of book, with steroided up men, improbably proportioned women, and a lot of big panels and over-rendering. Pretty much what you would find in your average 90s book. It has the computer coloring that makes everything look over-lit and the computer lettering is suitably artificial. The ideas are mostly just recycling of old cliches, right down to chapter titles swiped from literature, like "The Man in the High Tower," (taken form Phillip K Dick's The Man in the High Castle). The book ends without a true finish, as the fascist still rule; but, nothing more is done with it. The whole thing is set upp by the team's appearance in the Avengers series, from Busiek and Perez.   Here, once again, the Squadron are pawns of someone else; in this case, the Corruptor. They are mostly in the wings, during the two issues, as the Avengers do their thing, turning up for climactic battles, with the big reveal in issue #6. So, that's, more or less, it for the Squadron Supreme, as they stood. Marvel went through a bit of an upheaval, as Bob Harass was fired and Joe Quesada ascended to the throne, since Marvel Knights had been one of the better selling corners of the Marvel chaos. Squadron Supreme would return, in a new form, from a new writer, with a bit of celebrity cache. Next, we will begin our look at Joe Straczynski's Supreme Power, and find that our hopes and dreams for this team will, once again, be frustrated.
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Post by badwolf on Mar 13, 2019 10:56:12 GMT -5
Doesn't someone (probably Hawkeye) make a joke about how they're being mind-controlled again?
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 13, 2019 12:05:13 GMT -5
Doesn't someone (probably Hawkeye) make a joke about how they're being mind-controlled again? Probably; I just kind of skimmed through the two Avengers issues, as I knew they weren't that prominent in it. There is also teasing of the Champion guy that Hawkeye fought, when he went back to the purple suit, way back in Avengers #109. Busiek was doing a lot of revisiting of stuff like that (which was cool, in Avengers Forever). |
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Post by mikelmidnight on Mar 13, 2019 12:13:15 GMT -5
You knew this wasn't going to end well, right? The bodycount here, is higher than Watchmen. Nighthawk had to die a revolutionaries death. The Institute paid a heavy price, with only Shape surviving for the good, as the others are dead, except Ape X, who is a vegetable. of the Redeemers, only Redstone, moonglow, Inertia, Remnant and Haywire survive. Tom Thumb and Nuke were previously killed or died. Amphibian departed the team, as did Lady Lark, when Black Archer was expelled. BA spots Linda in a crowd shot, at a protest of the Hibernacula. She does not get involved in the fight, but is alive. Hyperion is blind. Dr Spectrum has been turned into a living power prism. Another problem with the state of the team at the end, is that it points out how writing about a team like the Squadron is a bit of a Catch-22: The only way to make the team really interesting is to mess with them and their lineup, but if they're messed with to the point that they're no longer a reflection of the Justice League, who cares about them? I used to collect all their appearances but post-Grunewald felt there was no point. |
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Post by rberman on Mar 13, 2019 12:17:22 GMT -5
You knew this wasn't going to end well, right? The bodycount here, is higher than Watchmen. Nighthawk had to die a revolutionaries death. The Institute paid a heavy price, with only Shape surviving for the good, as the others are dead, except Ape X, who is a vegetable. of the Redeemers, only Redstone, moonglow, Inertia, Remnant and Haywire survive. Tom Thumb and Nuke were previously killed or died. Amphibian departed the team, as did Lady Lark, when Black Archer was expelled. BA spots Linda in a crowd shot, at a protest of the Hibernacula. She does not get involved in the fight, but is alive. Hyperion is blind. Dr Spectrum has been turned into a living power prism. Another problem with the state of the team at the end, is that it points out how writing about a team like the Squadron is a bit of a Catch-22: The only way to make the team really interesting is to mess with them and their lineup, but if they're messed with to the point that they're no longer a reflection of the Justice League, who cares about them? I used to collect all their appearances but post-Grunewald felt there was no point. I liked what Straczynski did, as we'll be discussing shortly— issue by issue, I trust! They're clearly based on the JLA, but (1) with a coherence in their origin stories, and (2) with distinct experiences, agendas, and personalities that were neither Silver Age paper dolls nor Dark Age violence machines. A worthy follow up to the likes of Watchmen and Kingdom Come. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 13, 2019 12:34:31 GMT -5
At least the Avengers appearance was done by people who were both good and cared about their history, even if they were just a cog in a nostalgia machine. The New World Order project was at least tied to things, and Kaminski had been an assistant editor on Quasar, and was mentored by Gruenwald; so, there is some love there. It just seems flat because it is filled with cliches and that hyper-steroided 90s art. There had been furthe tweeking of costumes, especially Whizzer and Arcanna (who stuck with the Moonglow look, though it got jazzed up a bit).
Moonglow kind of shows where Gruenwald lacked focus in his series. She's an illusion projector, who is faking other skills, to infiltrate the team. When she is knocked unconscious, we see that she is not the model-beautiful woman she displayed; but, an overweight, plain jane. There was something different that could be fodder for future stories; but, instead, Gruenwald has her, literally, walk off the set and her identity is assumed by Arcanna to go on the mission (with her nursing baby, which is the height of irresponsibility). So, why bother with the true form reveal, if you aren't going to expand upon it?
New World Order returns to the core team, with Shape being the only non-original who comes back and he is removed early on, in an injury. Lady Lark is there, redubbed Skylark; but, also out injured. We get a new Nighthawk, who was the son of nighthawk's eney, the Huckster, who was killed and the boy, Neal, was raised by Kyle Richmond. You got the sense that they wanted to do more; but, I don't think anyone noticed and the shake up at Marvel seemed to leave it behind, until JMS wanted to do something with it (like rehash many of his concepts from Rising Stars).
I was ignorant of New World Order's existence, until I got a collection of the SS material, that included it. I certainly wouldn't have bought it with that art; hated that whole 90s Image-influenced style.
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Post by zaku on Mar 13, 2019 12:43:26 GMT -5
Doesn't someone (probably Hawkeye) make a joke about how they're being mind-controlled again? From JLA/Avengers
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Post by badwolf on Mar 13, 2019 15:15:44 GMT -5
Doesn't someone (probably Hawkeye) make a joke about how they're being mind-controlled again? From JLA/Avengers
Oh yeah, that's probably what I was thinking of. |
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Post by mikelmidnight on Mar 14, 2019 11:39:17 GMT -5
Another problem with the state of the team at the end, is that it points out how writing about a team like the Squadron is a bit of a Catch-22: The only way to make the team really interesting is to mess with them and their lineup, but if they're messed with to the point that they're no longer a reflection of the Justice League, who cares about them? I used to collect all their appearances but post-Grunewald felt there was no point. I liked what Straczynski did, as we'll be discussing shortly— issue by issue, I trust! They're clearly based on the JLA, but (1) with a coherence in their origin stories, and (2) with distinct experiences, agendas, and personalities that were neither Silver Age paper dolls nor Dark Age violence machines. A worthy follow up to the likes of Watchmen and Kingdom Come.
I did too, and I'll get there, but one caveat I'll add: I was looking forward to seeing his takes on Hawkeye, Lady Lark, American Eagle, etc ... and instead he populated the team with parallels of some of the Grunewaldian other characters, which made me start to lose interest. I wanted to see the Silver Age Justice League, not these interlopers (I was also very disappointed in his treatment of Tom Thumb).
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