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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2019 18:59:35 GMT -5
When did Cyclops become a villain?
I am so out of the loop at times! I mean, I picked up an X-Men title (UK reprint) for the first time recently - and Cyclops is young/hanging around with the Champions while the original X-Men seem to be time displaced.
Thank goodness for Wikipedia!
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Post by rberman on Feb 13, 2019 19:20:36 GMT -5
When did Cyclops become a villain? I am so out of the loop at times! I mean, I picked up an X-Men title (UK reprint) for the first time recently - and Cyclops is young/hanging around with the Champions while the original X-Men seem to be time displaced. Thank goodness for Wikipedia! I hear that Cyclops killed Professor X a couple of years ago. It will get undone, so...
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 13, 2019 20:01:16 GMT -5
My Mercury will always be Jack Kirby's!
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Post by Duragizer on Feb 13, 2019 23:01:31 GMT -5
When did Cyclops become a villain? I am so out of the loop at times! I mean, I picked up an X-Men title (UK reprint) for the first time recently - and Cyclops is young/hanging around with the Champions while the original X-Men seem to be time displaced. Thank goodness for Wikipedia! I hear that Cyclops killed Professor X a couple of years ago. It will get undone, so... And this is why "my" X-Men are the pre- Secret Wars X-Men, 'cause everything that's come since has been some mix of infuriating/stupefying/impenetrable.
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Post by chadwilliam on Feb 14, 2019 1:13:02 GMT -5
Although I've been into comics for as long as I can remember I think my impression of who's who solidified round about the time I was 14 (in 1993). Whether this has to do with me hitting that age when most kids lose interest in comics or just due to the fact that DC Comics in 1993 weren't very good (think Mullet Superman, Azrael Batman, Psycho Green Lantern all debuting that year for an idea of what it was like) I can't say for sure, yet from time to time I'll realise that 25 years later, my definition of who is "my" character is still taking shape when it comes to certain beings. It's extremely rare, but it has happened. I loved The Tick when I was a teen-ager. This Tick. When I heard that Fox was developing a live action series with Patrick Warburton, I thought it was a terrible idea since how could you improve upon "My Tick". Wait. Not "My Tick" - "The Tick". This one didn't even wear a full mask. And yet, that show blew me away with it's very different interpretation. Cut to recent years and there's talk of a darker, more serious Tick coming to television - one that might just be a figment of a mentally unbalanced Arthur's imagination. Same trepidation I had last time around and sure enough, this was a completely different take on the character which nevertheless nailed it. Ask me who The Tick is today and, well I'll still go with the Animated guy - he is patterned after Edlund's original creation and not much of a deviation from it - but I'll still see those other two versions flashing over top of him like some infrared light. It makes me wonder how much of my possessiveness of a certain character comes from stubbornness on my part and how much is lack of options. <iframe width="8.84000000000003" height="6.89999999999998" id="MoatPxIOPT0_63677118" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 5px; top: 141px; width: 8.84px; height: 6.9px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="8.84000000000003" height="6.89999999999998" id="MoatPxIOPT0_79772359" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 387px; top: 141px; width: 8.84px; height: 6.9px; position: absolute; z-inde <iframe width="8.84000000000003" height="6.89999999999998" id="MoatPxIOPT0_42760573" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 5px; top: 429px; width: 8.84px; height: 6.9px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="8.8400000000003" height="6.89999999999998" id="MoatPxIOPT0_12117749" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 387px; top: 429px; width: 8.84px; height: 6.9px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe>
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 14, 2019 1:35:36 GMT -5
Ask me who The Tick is today and, well I'll still go with the Animated guy - he is patterned after Edlund's original creation and not much of a deviation from it - but I'll still see those other two versions flashing over top of him like some infrared light. ALthough the cartoon completely destroyed the character of the Man Eating Cow. I am honestly a little mad about this, and can't really watch the cartoons. The Cow was a HERO. That was what made it funny!
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Post by Chris on Feb 14, 2019 3:25:34 GMT -5
Why must you bring me this agony? I don't know whose Superman that was, but it sure wasn't mine.
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Post by berkley on Feb 14, 2019 4:08:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I think this is perfectly normal when it comes to continuing characters that have been written and drawn by a zillion different people over a period of many years, and certainly nothing to feel defensive about. Under those circumstances, it's close to meaningless to say, "I like character-fill-in-the-blank" (though, like most comic book fans, I do say things like that all the time): what we really mean is that we like this or that particular version of the character - a version that might have persisted (more or less, and according to the reader's subjective judgement) through the treatments of more than one creative team, mind you; but that has rarely if ever persisted throughout the entire history of any character that's lasted more than one or two instantiations.
And of course this isn't limited to just comics characters: long-lived fictional characters like Dracula, Tarzan, Sherlock Holmes, James Bond, etc are all subject to the same kind of thing. It's a sign of their power as fictional creations that they've lived on long after their creators have passed away, but I think we have to be careful not to value this longevity so highly that it renders everything else about the character insignificant: then you've degraded the entire phenomenon to simply preserving little more than a name plus a few superficial, external identifiers, like a superhero's costume.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 5:53:58 GMT -5
Thoughtful responses as ever, people. Thanks! (And, Chad, I'm of the same age as you, I think).
Years ago, someone online did try and have a go at me when I posted about "my" Dare. I was told how it wasn't true to the spirit of original Dare, I was wrong to like him, etc. The usual response from someone looking for a fight.
Some people don't want to appreciate WHEN someone came to a franchise. As I stated in my initial post, I was about 7-8 when I came across that Dare. There wasn't any Google or Wikipedia then. For all I knew, that was Dare. He became "my" Dare. It wasn't until the early 90s that I even became aware of the 50s Dare. Anyone discovering something or someone today can Google in seconds, but we didn't have that option then.
Maybe I can understand how jarring it'd have been for someone 30-40 years older than me: "Who is this Dare? What is this atrocity? He bears no relation to the Dare I read in 1950!" I get it. I *respect* that person's viewpoint, too. But he/she has to respect mine.
Someone very young may come across Miles Morales' Spider-Man. It may be their first experience of Spidey. And until they Google it, they might not even become aware of Peter Parker for a short while. And Morales' Spider-Man could become "their" Spidey.
There's enough to go around, anyway.
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Post by brutalis on Feb 14, 2019 7:53:59 GMT -5
MY Character's are those which just grabbed my attention right from the very start. Whether it came from originally the costume or their actions or powers or characterization didn't matter. They just "spoke" to me in some way. Hawkeye the arrogant loud mouth braggart always back talking to Cap but only out of respect and admiration who had a cool costume and self taught skill/power. Captain Mar-Vell the alien Kree soldier who found more in Earth's humanity than his own (again another cool costume) when sent down to infiltrate and chose instead to serve as our protector and defender. Batman the Dark Knight Detective that stalked the dimly lit streets of Gotham protecting those who lived there with a grim vengeance filled heart hoping to prevent others ever having to suffer the same misfortunes and suffering he endures with yes, a cool costume. Metamorpho the Man whose body miraculously transforms into what most would consider to be monstrous but he doesn't dwell on that as he uses his elemental shapes to continue his adventures in hopes of finding a cure to be with the woman he loves with ...wait for it...a cool design.
I can go on and on about what initially made certain characters (in comics, books, movies, television) so special with a unique connection which drew me to them. The many combinations involved from writing to art to design are something once latched onto remain there forever. I will always go watch a new Western movie because I love the Cowboy concept. I will always buy a Tarzan, Doc Savage, Flash Gordon, John Carter or Conan comic book and give them a try. These are characters which filled my dreams as a child and sparked my imagination into youth and are there as friends in my adult life reminding me always that tomorrow is full of adventure and excitement and splendid dreams.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 14, 2019 11:18:32 GMT -5
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 14, 2019 14:17:11 GMT -5
rberman , @taxidriver1980 , shaxper ... Let me reassure you, true believers. The first X-Man did not turn into a villain, for all that several writers tried to make him look like one so that other characters would look good in comparison. After the Joss Whedon days that made him cool again, Cyclops did turn his back on his belief that all mutants had to do to finally gain their place in society was to behave like good citizens. After yet another crossover-spanning event that caused the near-extinction of mutants, and after this catastrophe only generated more genocidal hatred toward his few remaining brethren, Cyke took it upon himself to do what was needed to save his people. He became the sort of militant that his son Cable had been for a long time, and that Cyke had thought he himself could never become. That was actually pretty good character development, and just about the only real one seen at Marvel in the last thirty years! It wasn't "Cyclops the villain", but "Cyclops the idealist turned militant". Then came the gonzo AvX series in which Cyclops and four other X-Men got possessed by the Phoenix force, which prompted them to... turn the Earth into a paradise for everyone. To this day, I fail to see why that is considered an evil act. In any case, that was something Captain America's Avengers could not tolerate for some reason, and they decided to attack the Phoenix-powered X-Men. Granted, most of them were getting a little unhinged... but outright confrontation was probably not the wisest course of action to show them how dangerous they might become. In any case, this all ended with a "Everybody against Dark Cyclops" scene, in which he was the subject of several attempts on his life and in which that arrogant bast%$#d, Charles Xavier, more than met his match. Cyke was purged of the Phoenix power and sent to jail, the target of everybody's hatred and disdain. He accepted full responsibility for all he had done even while not exactly remembering it, but that didn't keep Captain America and Wolverine from dragging him in the mud and turning a blind eye to the murder attempts he endured in jail. Escaping, Cyclops tried to make amends not by looking for forgiveness from his pompous and fickle ex-friends, but by founding a new school for mutants. He started collecting young mutants persecuted by an increasingly hostile world (with state-sanctioned sentinels and mutant-killing cops around every corner, seemingly), and declared a "mutant revolution" like some kind of mutant Malcolm X. He eventually realized that he was suffering from a nervous breakdown and closed his school, just in time to be killed in some entirely forgettable series meant to replace the Fox-controlled X-Men by the Unmarketable Inhumans in the public eye. Luckily, recent real-world business deals put an end to this nonsense. And to remain in the spirit of this thread, "my" Cyclops was the one from the early days of the New X-Men, with the wickedly cool visor Dave Cockrum designed. The "take charge" one, not the "oh woe is me I have to wear glasses" guy he had been before nor the "I have somehow become a mass of insecurities because nobody knows how to write me" fellow he became next!
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 14, 2019 16:28:51 GMT -5
JUSTICE FOR THE MAN-EATING COW!!!
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Feb 14, 2019 18:12:26 GMT -5
I know who "MY" character isn't, he's not the ineffectual drifter of Mark Gruenwald's '80s Captain America, he's not the bizarro Thor foisted on us by Messner-Loebs and Deodato. He ain't Teen Tony, a clone, or an African-American alt-universe version. His name is Luther, he dont need a twin brother, she is, always was, and always will be THE best spy. He is the leader of his people, not a murderer of his mentor. He loves her and she has always loved him since she was 13, they are destined for each other and SHOULD be together. He IS a god afterall(well, almost)and SHOULD bestow upon thee THE Gift.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 14, 2019 18:19:41 GMT -5
Why must you bring me this agony? I don't know whose Superman that was, but it sure wasn't mine. Billy Ray Cyrus'
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