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Post by brianf on Mar 14, 2019 3:15:29 GMT -5
There's no character I flat out hate that comes to mind. Sure, there's some characters that I don't really care about, but I've read some good stories featuring them. And I've also read some terrible stories featuring characters I out & out love. So I don't want to shut any doors based on who is in the comic. Now, have I shut doors on creators? Oh yeah. You bet.
Brian "no fun" etc...
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Post by mikelmidnight on Mar 14, 2019 11:34:59 GMT -5
Yes, bad idea, both from the Titanians and from the Eternals perspective. So that was one of Gruenwald's too? This blind mania for tying everything together whether it makes sense or not really should have been kept on a much tighter rein. Another reason I hated it: it always disappointed me how Lee & Kirby's Asgard was so modernized but their Olympus was so traditional, and this was the first attempt that I knew of to add some super-science on the Olympian side. (I also wondered whether Eros was supposed to be THE Eros, which I would have been fine with.)
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 14, 2019 17:28:11 GMT -5
I have to disagree. I thought making the Titanians an offshoot of the Eternals was inspired. Starlin creating a new branch of the Olympian Royal Family offended the purist in me more than most such tinkering with the mythological pantheons, though Ican't quite articulate why beyond my general dislike of Starlin's work. Ditto the Uranians (from the '50s Marvel Boy series) being Eternals. It seemed tidier that way. But maybe that's just me.
Cei-U I summon Zeus' thunderbolt (my cousin twice removed on my mother's side)!
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Post by berkley on Mar 15, 2019 10:04:33 GMT -5
I have to disagree. I thought making the Titanians an offshoot of the Eternals was inspired. Starlin creating a new branch of the Olympian Royal Family offended the purist in me more than most such tinkering with the mythological pantheons, though Ican't quite articulate why beyond my general dislike of Starlin's work. Ditto the Uranians (from the '50s Marvel Boy series) being Eternals. It seemed tidier that way. But maybe that's just me. Cei-U I summon Zeus' thunderbolt (my cousin twice removed on my mother's side)! That seems like a kind of negative benefit - from your POV, I mean: IOW, it's a good idea to you because it dissociates the Titanians from the Olympian pantheon, rather than because it does anything to enhance the Titanians or the Eternals.
But if I have that wrong, I'm curious - do you think stories featuring Thanos and the Titanians should make more use of the Eternals connection?
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Post by mikelmidnight on Mar 15, 2019 11:34:46 GMT -5
Yes. I mean, I clearly disagree with the initial move, but since it's now canon I think they ought to make the most of it.
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Post by berkley on Mar 17, 2019 0:39:55 GMT -5
Yes. I mean, I clearly disagree with the initial move, but since it's now canon I think they ought to make the most of it.
Has anyone ever tried to do anything with the idea since it was first introduced? I'd be curious to see how it worked, though generally I haven't liked any of the post-Kirby Eternals series or individual appearances that I've seen.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Mar 17, 2019 9:30:13 GMT -5
I have to disagree. I thought making the Titanians an offshoot of the Eternals was inspired. Starlin creating a new branch of the Olympian Royal Family offended the purist in me more than most such tinkering with the mythological pantheons, though Ican't quite articulate why beyond my general dislike of Starlin's work. Ditto the Uranians (from the '50s Marvel Boy series) being Eternals. It seemed tidier that way. But maybe that's just me. Cei-U I summon Zeus' thunderbolt (my cousin twice removed on my mother's side)! This is the epitome of comradarie. My man here bad mouths my favorite writer and “I’m not even mad” meme. :thumbs up: to this place
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Post by berkley on Mar 17, 2019 19:16:58 GMT -5
Creators are of course as human as the rest of us and even the best of them can make mistakes or produce work below their usual standard. I can think of lots of things I don't particularly like from any of my personal favourites you care to name.
All this talk about Starlin's Titanians makes me realise I never really thought of them as connected with Marvel's version of the Olympian pantheon and if that was the case I'd have to agree with Cei-U that it was a very bad idea (though IMO it was a mistake to try to rectify it with another bad idea, as I think the Eternals connection was).
It also reminds me that I've never liked Eros (the Starlin character) much, no matter who was doing the writing or drawing. The other Titanians were OK, I suppose, though none of them really ever stood out to me as being especially interesting.
I don't know anything about the Uranians.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Mar 18, 2019 8:45:38 GMT -5
To mr Marvel’s use of actual mythology and putting it side by side with fictional “mythology” ie the Titans never bothered me. Hercules and Thor are so loosely based on the actual mythology they might as well be fictional. This coincidentally is also one of my favorite comic covers ever.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 18, 2019 11:09:18 GMT -5
I have to disagree. I thought making the Titanians an offshoot of the Eternals was inspired. Starlin creating a new branch of the Olympian Royal Family offended the purist in me more than most such tinkering with the mythological pantheons, though Ican't quite articulate why beyond my general dislike of Starlin's work. Ditto the Uranians (from the '50s Marvel Boy series) being Eternals. It seemed tidier that way. But maybe that's just me.It most certainly isn't! As far as I'm concerned, that's one of the retcons that worked the best, because it takes something that doesn't make much sense (multiple advanced humanoid races in the Solar system) and makes it all quite logical, without having to play the "everything you thought you knew is wrong" card. The Beyonder being a cosmic cube worked the same way for me, as the wonderful way the multiple super-powered humanoid races from the LSH book (post-crisis) were shown to be the descendants of humans experimented upon by the Dominators.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 18:01:25 GMT -5
I'm really surprised that this thread is having a quite of discussion of lately and thanks everyone that contributed to it.
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Post by berkley on Mar 18, 2019 18:20:56 GMT -5
I have to disagree. I thought making the Titanians an offshoot of the Eternals was inspired. Starlin creating a new branch of the Olympian Royal Family offended the purist in me more than most such tinkering with the mythological pantheons, though Ican't quite articulate why beyond my general dislike of Starlin's work. Ditto the Uranians (from the '50s Marvel Boy series) being Eternals. It seemed tidier that way. But maybe that's just me.It most certainly isn't! As far as I'm concerned, that's one of the retcons that worked the best, because it takes something that doesn't make much sense (multiple advanced humanoid races in the Solar system) and makes it all quite logical, without having to play the "everything you thought you knew is wrong" card. The Beyonder being a cosmic cube worked the same way for me, as the wonderful way the multiple super-powered humanoid races from the LSH book (post-crisis) were shown to be the descendants of humans experimented upon by the Dominators. For me, none of that really required explanation in a Marvel Universe full of super-powered individuals and races, inside the solar system and out. And - again, from my POV - it fatally diluted the Eternals concept by making them just one more set of super-powered beings amongst countless others.
But I know I'm in the minority on this. Even the New Gods get some lip service from various creators, though that spoken appreciation never seems to make its way on to the comic book page; but I don't think I've ever seen any creator anywhere talk about the Eternals with any degree of understanding or admiration. I read somewhere that Jason Aaron is planning to make use of them in the Avengers, and I cringe to think what'll be done with them there.
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Post by beccabear67 on Mar 18, 2019 23:36:08 GMT -5
I never liked Uncle Marvel or the Lieutenant Marvels, I think Jr., Mary and Hoppy should've been more than enough.
I never liked the Superman and Supergirl robots/LMDs either. They got them out of way too many things a good writer should've been able to do something creative with... same with those silly rubber masks fooling people even really close up (the worst was The Beast when he was newly furry in Amazing Adventures), so these super robots were a really bad idea that just undermined the supes, and Beppo The Super Monkey was one super animal too far for me too. In fact the Nick Fury and Tony Stark LMDs were equally bad ideas, but they did at least use the Nick Fury one in way not originally intended and that was interesting (Defenders).
And did I mention I hated both Mr. Mxyzptlk and the Impossible Man more and more with every appearance? Not charming to me, not delightfully whimsical, more like ruining whatever stories/titles they appeared in. I'd sooner have Ambush Bug and Cheeks or Herbie the robot show up!
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Post by mikelmidnight on Mar 19, 2019 12:17:48 GMT -5
For me, none of that really required explanation in a Marvel Universe full of super-powered individuals and races, inside the solar system and out. And - again, from my POV - it fatally diluted the Eternals concept by making them just one more set of super-powered beings amongst countless others. The Eternals in the MU are completely redundant. They already have the Inhumans, Galactus, the Elders of the Universe, Thor, and Charles Darwin (and/or the Monolith depending on how you take Machine Man's history) for secret races of superhumans, immortal space gods, an explanation for the gods of myth, and an explanation for human evolution. I never liked Uncle Marvel or the Lieutenant Marvels, I think Jr., Mary and Hoppy should've been more than enough. To be fair, the Lieutenants actually came first, and were rarely used after the rest came along. Impossible Man didn't bother me but I always hated Mxyzptlk because he was just too damn powerful.
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Post by berkley on Mar 20, 2019 2:11:11 GMT -5
For me, none of that really required explanation in a Marvel Universe full of super-powered individuals and races, inside the solar system and out. And - again, from my POV - it fatally diluted the Eternals concept by making them just one more set of super-powered beings amongst countless others. The Eternals in the MU are completely redundant. They already have the Inhumans, Galactus, the Elders of the Universe, Thor, and Charles Darwin (and/or the Monolith depending on how you take Machine Man's history) for secret races of superhumans, immortal space gods, an explanation for the gods of myth, and an explanation for human evolution. Well, exactly. As are the Celestials (redundant in the MU, that is). The whole point of the concept is lost by jamming it into the Marvel Universe, but that's never seemed to bother any of the creators who've dealt with it since the original series - Neil Gaiman being one of the most recent and certainly the most prominent, talented, and therefore disappointing of them. Wait, I forgot Hickman, he's more recent still, and like the rest of them missed the point entirely when he wrote the Celestials into one of his series. I don't expect anything better from Aaron - or from anyone, really, to be fair. I consider Alan Moore the best writer in comics and I think even he probably couldn't make it work to my satisfaction while operating under the restrictions anyone writing for Marvel is stuck with.
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