shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 8, 2019 7:53:26 GMT -5
Marv Wolfman on Cyborg and Sarah Simms (introduced in The New Teen Titans #8): MW: "At first I thought of it. And then decided there was nothing wrong with a good healthy friendship that is not based on a sexual background between them. I received a letter that sort of helped me change my min
Yeah, I was going to discuss this bit way further down the line. But it also shows that Wolfman did originally intend to introduce an interracial relationship for Vic (and, for a good long while, that's exactly how it was presented). Thus, spoon could be correct that the even earlier idea was to have it happen between Vic and Donna.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 8, 2019 7:57:47 GMT -5
Good write-up. I too was struck by Deathstroke's weak motivation for accepting the contract on the Titans rather than using his considerable wealth and power to crush H.I.V.E. for killing his son. The use of "Slade" in "Teen Titans Go!" is because the words "Deathstroke" and "Terminator" are not only redundant but also disallowed on kiddie TV. Is that true? I could see "Deathstroke" being objectionable, but I'm surprised that "Terminator" would be. It's strongly implied that several weeks have passed since the events of NTT #1. Kory has been following the team around ever since. Thus, it makes sense they'd give her a name of some kind. What makes less sense is her not attempting to absorb their language in all that time, nor Raven attempting to communicate with her, nor anyone figuring out at the least that her name is Koriand'r, "Me Tarzan" and all that. So, in essence, the fact that Robin saw this in advance affects things no more than his having seen Titans Tower before it was built. Both things happened regardless of Robin's presence, as I see it. Cool theory, though!
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Post by shaxper on Apr 8, 2019 8:01:38 GMT -5
MY issue 2 comments: - In my head, Starfire HAS to actually kiss someone to get the language because.. reasons. The panel where they're holding her back, for instance, she's touching someone, but no language happens. Whoops! I guess Wolfman and Perez weren't planning everything as carefully as I have suggested. I hope you're right. I don't remember it that way. Hmmmm. Amazing that none of us seem to clearly remember this detail.
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Post by dbutler69 on Apr 8, 2019 8:07:05 GMT -5
Shaxper, I largely agree with your review. I’d also give it an A- (or a B+) and I also thought Deathstroke’s (if I may use only one of his names) motivation for wanting to kill the Titans pretty weak. Like you, I also liked the introduction of Wintergreen. I also wondered what took Kory so long to learn English. Wolfman later said in an interview that the way she learned English didn’t really make sense, but it was convenience for him, and he also said it was probably a mistake. Having said that, when I first read this back in the day, I loved that scene!
Here’s another minor point. It says here that Wonder Girl glides on air currents, and that is also my understanding of the character, but in issue #1, I think she was carrying two people while “gliding”. Those are some seriously strong air currents!
And yes, Woflman and Perez did have this series well planned.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 8, 2019 8:07:54 GMT -5
Starfire's bolts are due to Psion experimentation, as we will see in Tales of the New Teen Titans. Same for her sisters powers. Thanks! Yep. That's my recollection as well. I almost kind of wonder if they were trying to hold (or prevent Marvel from acquiring) two trade-marked names with one character. Otherwise, it just strikes me as confusing for a villain to have two names, especially being the practical, no-nonsense kind of guy that he is. As an assassin, reputation is everything, so you don't want potential clients having a conversation like this: Bad guy 1: Did you hear what Deathstroke did to that bus of nuns? Bad guy 2: That's nothing. I hear The Terminator has a kill rate of 98%. Bad guy 3: I heard Deathstroke and The Terminator work together. Bad guy 2: No no no. They're rivals or something. Bad guy 4: They're the same person. My cousin says so. Bad guy 1: Your cousin's an idiot. Bad guy 2: Screw this. I'm just gonna hire Dave Smith. Agreed. And far more fitting of a cult than an underground evil organization. I often confused the H.I.V.E. with Brother Blood's cult as a young reader.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 8, 2019 8:13:10 GMT -5
Wolfman later said in an interview that the way she learned English didn’t really make sense, but it was convenience for him, and he also said it was probably a mistake. That makes sense. Otherwise, having an alien on the team was going to be a drag. But Raven's en empath -- I would have bought it if she could have helped translate feelings and ideas into words until Kory got comfortable doing it on her own. As a kid, I absolutely did too. As an adult, I can't help but overthink how ridiculous it is that she waited this long. Did you post this earlier and then delete it, because I swear you made this point before and I had intended to reply to it. I'd never heard this explanation for Wonder Girl prior to NTT and wonder why Wolfman felt the need to add it. Wonder Woman flies (or maybe she didn't at this point?). I actually missed where it said this; is there any chance it was more a prosaic figure of speech than an explanation of her abilities?
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Post by dbutler69 on Apr 8, 2019 8:30:30 GMT -5
Here’s another minor point. It says here that Wonder Girl glides on air currents, and that is also my understanding of the character, but in issue #1, I think she was carrying two people while “gliding”. Those are some seriously strong air currents! Did you post this earlier and then delete it, because I swear you made this point before and I had intended to reply to it. I'd never heard this explanation for Wonder Girl prior to NTT and wonder why Wolfman felt the need to add it. Wonder Woman flies (or maybe she didn't at this point?). I actually missed where it said this; is there any chance it was more a prosaic figure of speech than an explanation of her abilities? Ha, my memory stinks, so I don't remember if I posted this point before, but I don't think I did. I'm not near my comics, but I believe there's a caption in one of the scenes where she's gliding and the word "glides" or some variation thereof is used in the description. By the way, how can using 90% of his brain make the Terminator (or whatever we call him) quicker than Kid Flash? I know Wolfman had issues with Wally because he's so difficult to defeat, if used realistically.
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Post by rberman on Apr 8, 2019 10:25:33 GMT -5
It's strongly implied that several weeks have passed since the events of NTT #1. Kory has been following the team around ever since. Thus, it makes sense they'd give her a name of some kind. Sure, and it's not hard for you or I to come up with the dialogue that Wolfman omitted. It just seems like we skipped one of the signature events of a hero's life: the adoption of a code name. Cyborg: This girl is hot stuff! She can shoot fire out of her hands. Kid Flash: Reminds me of that Russian kid we met a few years back... who was it? Robin: Starfire. Changeling: Starfire! A hot name for a hot girl! Donna: Oh, Gar... Or if she has any say in the matter: Kory: My name is Kori'andr, which in my language means "the fire that arcs from a star's corona during a solar flare." Robin: Kinda wordy. How about we call you Starfire? Sort of like that girl on the Spider-Man cartoon, but backwards. Kory: Starfire. Very well. Changeling: I know this star sure sets my heart on fire! Donna: Oh, Gar... Just a missed opportunity, is all.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 8, 2019 10:28:19 GMT -5
Sure, and it's not hard for you or I to come up with the dialogue that Wolfman omitted. It just seems like we skipped one of the signature events of a hero's life: the adoption of a code name. Cyborg: This girl is hot stuff! She can shoot fire out of her hands. Kid Flash: Reminds me of that Russian kid we met a few years back... who was it? Robin: Starfire. Beast Boy: Starfire! A hot name for a hot girl! Donna: Oh, Garth... You need to write professionally. That is eerily fitting of Wolfman's dialogue.
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 8, 2019 10:32:07 GMT -5
Have to be the first one; Firestar debuted a year after Kory.
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Post by rberman on Apr 8, 2019 10:36:15 GMT -5
Have to be the first one; Firestar debuted a year after Kory. Continuity, schmontinuity... As for writing professionally: Like music, it's a crowded field, so I'm happy to sit in the bleachers, but I appreciate the compliment all the same.
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Post by rberman on Apr 8, 2019 12:09:22 GMT -5
Writing New Teen Titans the Marv Way
As we all know from watching the Guardians of the Galaxy movies, a family is any group of similarly-aged people who are thrown temporarily together by circumstance. If you want to write dialogue for this family, you must know the roles of each character:
Dick Grayson is a little older than the others, being the Sensational Character Find of 1940. He is the dad: Ward Cleaver. Or Reed Richards, without the absentminded professor part. He’s been talking about quitting his job and going to business for himself for a while, and this time, he really means it.
Gar Logan used to be older but now functions as the twelve year old brother. His testosterone levels are surging, his body is changing, and all of his conversational gambits are either “Look at me!” or “Sex!” He is a new Tween Titan.
Donna Troy, as you can tell in two seconds, is an adult female. She favors yoga pants, and vice versa. Not the mom, since she’s not into dad. Maybe Dad’s unmarried sister, who moved in to help out with the kids since dad’s old boss used to make him work nights. Anyway, her job is to reprove Garth for sex talk, set a good example, and keep peace amongst the kids.
Victor Stone is the older brother. He’s in the moody “no one understands my pain” phase. He spends a lot of time alone in his room with white noise headphones, just listening to static. He wishes the door locked, because Garth is always messing with his stuff.
Kory just moved to town. She’s a spunky former cheerleader who still hasn’t figured out the effect of her tight sweaters. Or maybe she just pretends not to know. Her vivacious spirit comes in handy in her job with an MLM company hawking essential oils, and she’s glad for the company of her next door neighbors Dick and Donna.
Raven comes from a bad home. She wears black on black and keeps her dad’s dogtags around her neck; he died in Vietnam. Her new stepdad is a drunk who yells a lot. Also, he has six eyes. She tries to stay out of the house as much as possible. She understands pain and since she can’t fix hers, she tries to help others with theirs. She hates yelling and fights. You'd think moody Victor would draw her into his orbit, but no, she's pining after some guy on the track team.
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Post by badwolf on Apr 8, 2019 18:04:47 GMT -5
Garfield Logan. Garth is Aqualad.
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Post by rberman on Apr 8, 2019 18:17:32 GMT -5
Garfield Logan. Garth is Aqualad. Whoopsie!
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Post by shaxper on Apr 9, 2019 6:10:30 GMT -5
I'll be posting my review of NTT #3 either Wednesday or Thursday night, for those reading along
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