...and that's what Wolfman wanted to establish: a group of villains that were unique / "belonged" to the Titans, rather than dumping a stream of forgettable enemies on them (as seen in the original Teen Titans series), or being yet another titles sharing villains associated with mentor characters and/or the JLA. For a time, the H.I.V.E. was the best group of antagonists in any DC comic.




Wolfman's own "explanaton" and the way this non-romantic relationship proved he was never going to have this black male involved with a white woman.





Er...comic books?

I missed this issue, back in the day and the build up had made me want to see it; but, when I finally got a copy, I was less than enthused. The previous issue tease seemed like the film, Magic; but, the issue, itself, felt like, as you say, a Toyman story. The HIVE and Terminator are fine (and are why the price on this shot up); but, I can't take seriously a criminal group who hang around in bathrobes. Even AIM was more intimidating.

Somehow, I suspect George Perez lobbied for the scene between Kory and Donna.

It's issue 9, and when Gar goes through the list of NTT enemies, all he can come up with is the Terminator (they seem to emphasize that part of the name back then rather than Deathstroke) and the Fearsome Five. I guess killer mechanical toys doesn't seem like Trigon's M.O. Heh. But yeah, that's a small rogues gallery. He can't even come up with any of their individual enemies.

I suspected the Puppeteer must have a longer track record, but after that appearance in GL, it turns out he only had a very early appearance in Justice League of America (per the DC Chronology Project).


I think a criminal can use multiple tactics, if that's what you mean.


Yeah, having the Terminator accomplish the H.I.V.E.'s goal at the end is a cool swerve.


I agree on both counts. The fight choreography is good, but the mind control is already overdone. It's hard when a team is against an individual villain. Also, we've seen Raven as the one immune from control before, but at least a couple other Titans manage to evade the Puppeteer's control as well.



I suspect Mento not being around is part of the set-up for falling off his rocker.



I think it's more like work to find the inner strength to overcome your disabilities rather than dreaming of a miracle to save you. But it's stretch to assume a conversation with the kids will go in a particular direction.



This is still in an era when non-white characters were more limited and in the margins relative to today, so it's interesting to see how Wolfman navigates the depiction of Vic. How do weave the impact of race into a character, but not devolve into stereotypes. Obviously, being a cyborg is going to piss a person off, but you don't want to stereotype him as surly. And Vic is the son of two educated scientists (and seems to have a scientific bent himself), but he notes that he speaks in slang. Depending on whether one is prescriptivist or descriptive, Vic's grammar is either incorrect or just non-standard. From a more modern understanding it's like codeswitching, except Vic rarely feels the need to switch to try to fit in with Wally, Gar, etc.

Wolfman also depicts Vic as surly or standoffish, when Wally suggests Cyborg will never forgive Robin for knocking him out. Robin was being choking to death and it freed Cyborg from the Puppeteer's control. You'd think Cyborg would appreciate the exigent circumstances.


Yeah, saying "love" and the kiss on the cheek definitely seems flirty. I don't believe Wolfman either. I'm guessing he either forgot his original plan or this is a post hoc rationalization to cover for a subplot that never got fully realized.


I'd say it falls between nothing and something. If Terry Long is a stand-in for Wolfman, it's a bit of innocent wish fulfillment. Terry is the good boyfriend who will never cheat on Donna, but he also gets to hang out with Donna's super-hot friend all the time, and we get all the reminders that this dude is hanging around two hot chicks. He makes a cheeky comment now and then, and she always conspicuously modeling. The scenes starts with Terry and Kory alone in the room and Terry gets to check out Kory posing when she's looking the other way. He notes that she doesn't have any tentacles (heh, heh). We get the reminder that Donna is a younger woman. And Donna specifically mentions his female students (co-eds). "And, watching, Terrence Long smiles as the two slim figures . . . " We get it! Terry's life is filled with babes!

I think Wolfman drooled on the script pages about Starfire. "Her lush lips curl up in cruel savagery."



Maybe it's partially that he likes using the other characters more, and partially that a speedster is hard to right in a way that keeps his power in balance. How can he be captured if he can reach light speed? There's a nod to Wally's power level in that he frees himself, while the others need help. Also, keeping Wally away helped the story more when the Titans were fighting the Fearsome Five and the odds had to be more even.

Oh, DC (and Wolfman & Perez) pretty much referred to him as Terminator, until Ahnold told that guy he'd "...be bahk!" This probably why they couldn't trademark the name....



though Deathstroke predates this book series (ut it predates the movie). I would suspect that he was trademarked as Deathstroke the Terminator, in issue #2, and both the Pinnacle Books series and the Cameron movie were clinchers and why they stopped (mostly) referring to him as Terminator and just stuck with Deathstroke. Need to see if Wolfman or Perez ever commented on that.

Interesting. I wonder who told Kory it was magic.



Also... if it's a lasso, it has a loop on the end, right? And shouldn't that loop be outside of Kory's voluminous mane, instead of just around her neck?

We can assume that these characters have small talk off panel. 

It was never realized because it was never going to happen. I do not believe Wolfman--in his dance around the obvious--simply lacked the time or ability to flesh out relationships, as The New Teen Titans had several significant relationships over the course of its run. In his interview, he tried to pass of responsibility of the relationship not happening due to the input/complaints of some unnamed "black leader":



...but the alleged comments (about black male characters in relationships with white women) was completely false, when major examples up to that time (including, but not limited to T'Challa, Sam Wilson, Archie Comics' Chuck Clayton, Luke Cage, and the Titans' own Mal) followed the stereotypical line, so his excuse--and the notion of a relationship-friendly title just not carrying it forward with Vic/Simms does not hold an ounce of water. That was Wolfman's excuse and for anyone knowing comic book history--and he did--he would know that there was no industry trend or tendency toward interracial relationships of the specific kind discussed here. He appears to be making an excuse for having no true intention of Vic and Simms be a true romantic couple.