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Post by berkley on Jun 1, 2020 16:52:32 GMT -5
As far as the NTT vs X-Men discussion goes, I think it makes sense to compare the two (and also perhaps the Levitz/Giffen Legion?): they seem to occupy the same sub-niche of self-enclosed superhero team books with a youngish cast relative to flagship teams like the Avengers or JLA.
Even though I think that on the whole Perez is a better artist than Byrne and Wolfman a better writer than Claremont, I have to admit to liking the X-Men more as a series - possibly because Claremont and Byrne were at their very best on that book while I think both Perez and Wolfman produced much stronger work elsewhere. But it's a credit to both that their middling work (as I see it) on NTT is more or less on a par with Claremont and Byrne's best.
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Post by Chris on Jun 2, 2020 2:15:14 GMT -5
Outside of his Dracula run I don't recall Wolfman lasting longer than a year or bit more on anything? He also worked on the Superman titles after the 1982's mini-revamp (Lex Luthor's new armor, Braniac new robotic body). Hardly anyone remembers it and I think those stories never been reprinted. The only thing worth noting is his idea of making Vandale Savage an evil CEO, which was an inspiration for the post-Crisis Lex Luthor character. Wolfman worked on Superman earlier than that. He started with Action Comics #513 (Nov. 1980, the same month as New Teen Titans #1). And he was part of that revamp, the Brainiac update was Wolfman's story. His last story was #556, about three and a half years later, but there were a lot of fill-ins. Wolfman's actual total on the book came to about two and a half years. One of his first stories for Action Comics was a two-parter with Vandal Savage, who was written the same way as always, a supervillain out to conquer the world, although it was a clever plot. Now that I think about it, I don't believe Wolfman was just part of the revamp, it might be fair to say he was a driving force behind it. Not right away, but he was planting a few things the led up to the "exciting new era" that kicked off with Action Comics #542 (where "Vandal Savage as CEO" started), and continued a month later with Superman #383. And while I will probably start a few fires with this, I would generally take Cary Bates on Superman over New Teen Titans any day (get the pitchforks, everyone!). But when Cary Bates started trying to write like Marv Wolfman... well, let's just say that I don't believe that Bates, not to mention Julius Schwartz and E. Nelson Bridwell, were really suited for, or even interested in, that style of storytelling. Almost to the very minute after Wolfman was gone, Schwartz changed the tone of the Superman books to a sort of retro-Mort Weisinger approach aimed at young kids as a last-ditch effort to boost sales. / end pointless information overflow
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 2, 2020 7:08:33 GMT -5
Wolfman worked on Superman earlier than that. He started with Action Comics #513 (Nov. 1980, the same month as New Teen Titans #1). And he was part of that revamp, the Brainiac update was Wolfman's story. His last story was #556, about three and a half years later, but there were a lot of fill-ins. Wolfman's actual total on the book came to about two and a half years. One of his first stories for Action Comics was a two-parter with Vandal Savage, who was written the same way as always, a supervillain out to conquer the world, although it was a clever plot. Now that I think about it, I don't believe Wolfman was just part of the revamp, it might be fair to say he was a driving force behind it. Not right away, but he was planting a few things the led up to the "exciting new era" that kicked off with Action Comics #542 (where "Vandal Savage as CEO" started), and continued a month later with Superman #383. And while I will probably start a few fires with this, I would generally take Cary Bates on Superman over New Teen Titans any day (get the pitchforks, everyone!). But when Cary Bates started trying to write like Marv Wolfman... well, let's just say that I don't believe that Bates, not to mention Julius Schwartz and E. Nelson Bridwell, were really suited for, or even interested in, that style of storytelling. Almost to the very minute after Wolfman was gone, Schwartz changed the tone of the Superman books to a sort of retro-Mort Weisinger approach aimed at young kids as a last-ditch effort to boost sales. / end pointless information overflow I see your pointless information and raise it! To quote my own Superman in the Post-Crisis Review thread: "The original concept for the Superman reboot came from Frank Miller and Steve Gerber and envisioned a depowered Superman, some of the more fantastic elements of the mythos (for example: Superboy) being removed from continuity, and Lex Luthor as a business tycoon. Marv Wolfman fought hard to get on the project but knew that DC wanted a bigger powerhouse creative talent on the book, so he recommended John Byrne. Wolfman and editor Andrew Helfer shared the original pitched vision for a Superman reboot, but Byrne, a longtime Superman fan, wanted the campier/more fantastic elements back in continuity. Thus, while the initial emphasis is on a depowered/less perfect Superman facing depowered, less fantastic enemies, Byrne begins reintroducing those more fantastic elements (including Mxyzptlk and a Pocket Universe Superboy) by the fall of 1987."
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Post by zaku on Jun 2, 2020 11:58:04 GMT -5
[And while I will probably start a few fires with this, I would generally take Cary Bates on Superman over New Teen Titans any day (get the pitchforks, everyone!). Sorry, but after someone wrote a story where Superboy date-rapes a brainwashed girl, well, that someone would have to work veeeeeery hard his way up from such an abyss.
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Post by shaxper on Jun 2, 2020 12:09:57 GMT -5
New Teen Titans #17 (March 1982) "The Possessing of Frances Kane!" Script: Marv Wolfman Pencils: George Pérez (breakdowns); Romeo Tanghal (finished art) Inks: Romeo Tanghal Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: John Costanza Grade: C+ Does it matter these days that this is the first appearance of Frances Kane? Apparently she is a hero named Magenta now. News to me. Anyway, it sure seems like this issue was setting her up to become a new member of the team, and then there was a change of plans at the last moment. Why else introduce a new teenager and spend a whole issue giving her powers and an origin story? And yet, by the close of the story, her powers were just extra magnetic waves in the brain and are neutralized: And Marv and George tack on this lame explanation where some Green Lantern villain a Titans fan wouldn't know was causing all this from the great beyond. This last minute explanation would be earned if Doctor Polaris had some plan to try this again, but he doesn't. He's going to get back "someday," but he has no idea how or when. So why add this detail at the end? But I guess this isn't the end of the story for Frances Kane, here. Curious to see how that plays out. Concept-wise, this is essentially Stephen King's "Carrie" with superheroes. And, while I know nothing about the 1972 film "The Possession of Joel Delany," it's a good candidate for the story's title inspiration. I can tell you that, while I found the mother in "Carrie" disturbingly believable, Wolfman's religiously oppressive mother feels less authentic, working far more in service of the plot than delivering any believability: It's ironic. I've argued before how most of the New Teen Titans drew inspiration from Claremont's X-Men, and yet, in a little less than two years, it's Claremont who will be doing the creative borrowing from Wolfman and Perez with the introduction of Magik, a character seemingly modeled on Raven (who, herself, seemed to be partly modeled on Dark Phoenix). And yet, there might be some of Frances Kane to be found in Magik too. In terms of plot, I found this one a bit clumsy and un-engaging. For one thing, I discussed in the last review how Wolfman and Perez are struggling with the idea of how new conflicts are going to come to the team. Last issue, they sought one out and took the injustice personally (which I liked). This time, they are having it conveniently thrust upon the team. What are the chances, of all the people in the world who can suddenly spawn a magnetic demon large enough to destroy New York, that it would happen to Wally West's childhood sweetheart exactly while he was back in town AND visiting her home? Incidentally, I'm still sick of Wally and need him to leave the team already. Why do Marv and George keep waffling on this? For another thing, what exactly was Doctor Polaris' goal? When this happened in Carrie, it was her latent subconscious at work. In so many other films of the '70s and '80s that dealt with possession, it was an actual demon only looking to cause chaos. What was Doctor Polaris actually trying to do? How was killing Frances' father and brother going to bring him back to reality? It never makes sense. Oh, I respect the fact that Kory is still grieving in the wake of the previous issue, but why not show that for a panel or two instead of just mentioning it in passing? Perhaps it occurred to Marv to explain her absence after George had already done breakdowns? Minor Details:- Marv and George have waffled on whether or not the Titans are household names. Apparently, we are now going with the idea that they are: - Whereas Raven's body was previously depicted as upright but lifeless when her soul-self leaves it, we've now got her soul-self working at maximum power and larger than Titans Tower while Raven is able to be present and move about freely, only unable to use her powers: - The Titans have a new (medical?) lab: Formerly the fifth floor storage area: Perez is adhering to his diagram of Titans Tower (from issue #7) very carefully: But this leaves me confused. Someone raised the point a few issues earlier how it seems unrealistic that seemingly every member of the team can operate an aircraft with military precision. Now we have to accept the idea that, even if the Titans got STAR Labs to build this lab for them, they all seem equally capable of working this insanely complex machinery. Dick, Vic, and Donna all do it in this issue. Heck, when the insides of Titans Tower are basically obliterated by the close of this story, who has the know-how to put it all back together again? It was one layer of absurdity to believe Vic's dad had the know-how, resources, and connections to quickly and quietly build Titans Tower on his own. Now that he's gone, who's the repairman? - On a related note, we are never told where this takes place: STAR Labs accepts walk-in appointments and just happened to have a lab set up for this? Or is this just the hospital down the street? We see in this issue that there are STAR Lab techs still helping Vic out on a moment's notice, I suppose. - It's been a while since Perez has done all the penciling himself. Still, he manages to wow me with his breakdowns at least once per issue: A mostly forgettable and uninteresting issue for me. Par for the course at this point in the run.
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Post by rberman on Jun 2, 2020 12:16:02 GMT -5
Issue #16 is a stand-alone episode with two plots: Starfire and Donna deal with boy trouble, and the other Titans rescue a kidnapped model. This allows for two brief fight scenes and a whole lot of character development. Wolfman is trying to have his cake and eat it too. First, doubtless on order from editorial, he wants a one-in-done story rather than a sprawling Claremontian epic that might get canceled before it reaches its climax. (The Judas Contract is still in the future.) But he still wants to show character development in ways that would take time to unfold naturally. So he adopts a flashback structure which allows the Titans in "present tense" to discuss the following recent events, some of which we see in flashback and others that we only hear about or infer: * Dick and Kory have a romantic relationship for some length of time. * Dick breaks it off in the name of team unity. It's not well motivated, but it's essential to justify Kory moving on (for now). * Wally decides to hang around the Titans more. He's seen swimming in their pool and chatting with them like old times. * Raven decides to go to college. I guess she's already had the equivalent of high school? This gets her out among hoi polloi where louts can accost her. * Kory has a successful modeling career. Between her income and Donna's, they can afford a Manhattan penthouse apartment. Not bad! * Kory starts dating a male model, Franklin Crandall, long enough that she has a framed photo portrait of the two of them on her bedside table. * Garth spends some time reconnecting with Dayton. Would I have preferred to see these character moments spread out over a dozen issues rather than crammed into one issue? Yes, the payoff would have been stronger. Still, Wolfman and Perez make it work on a smaller emotional scale. Wolfman takes full advantage of the fact that the Titans live in New York City rather than Metropolis or some other imaginary city. This allows him to tell us that Donna's penthouse is "across the East River from Titan's Tower and north to the East Eighties." And Crandall seems to live in "Greenwich, Connecticut." Which is great, although some of the details seem confused. Crandall talks with the HIVE guy in what we're led to understand is Crandall's house, a single family dwelling: Note that Cranston enters the house and immediately removes his jacket and shirt in front of the HIVE guy, which is kind of weird. I suppose it's supposed to tell us that he doesn't own the fancy clothes. I guess his blackmail gig hasn't worked out well financially. So this probably isn't a house he owns either. He calls Kory a "good kid," implying an age difference. When the Titans arrive at Crandall's house in Connecticut (in an image below when Kory flies way, we see the house is two stories tall) and find him dying, he coughs out the address of his killer, two blocks away: However Kory flies much further, into a downtown area with tall skyscrapers; the Titans follow. Then Kory busts through the wall of a high-rise, right into the HIVE guy's living room. I wonder how she knew which apartment to target at "267 Archer." New Teen Titans #16 (February 1982) - I'm still not sure I get the final panel here. Is Dr. Darrow supposed to be Hive memember #7? Yes, I think so. I had not noticed until this issue that Raven's hair is flat black, without any shiny highlights, as opposed to the blue shine on Dick and Donna. A subtle reminder of her otherworldly nature. Her hair absorbs all light. For an Amazonian, Donna has very American decor. She does at least have a tabletop statue (trophy?) of a figure throwing a discus. Likewise Kory's bedroom doesn't show any signs of an alien occupant.
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Post by shaxper on Jun 2, 2020 12:27:09 GMT -5
Issue #16 is a stand-alone episode with two plots: Starfire and Donna deal with boy trouble, and the other Titans rescue a kidnapped model. Donna was part of the rescue of Angela Dove Apparently, the "relationship" was conducted secretly, and Dick is surprised Kory has developed feelings. It's a series of booty calls more than a relationship, and it really shocks me first realizing that all these years later. And yet he is going back to college in Blue Ridge, as we will see in the next issue. So he's waffling every bit as much as Marv and George are. I don't believe Crandall was a model. He was a con-man snuggling up to elderly widows who claimed to have gotten lost in the building as his excuse for showing up at Kory's shoot. I don't recall any explanation that he was there to work as a model. Very nice catch.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 2, 2020 13:39:20 GMT -5
Wolfman is trying to have his cake and eat it too. First, doubtless on order from editorial, he wants a one-in-done story rather than a sprawling Claremontian epic that might get canceled before it reaches its climax. (The Judas Contract is still in the future.) But he still wants to show character development in ways that would take time to unfold naturally. So he adopts a flashback structure which allows the Titans in "present tense" to discuss the following recent events, some of which we see in flashback and others that we only hear about or infer: Was NTT really in danger of cancellation by this point? I was under the impression that by now, its sales were pretty solid and cancellation was by no means imminent. * Kory has a successful modeling career. Between her income and Donna's, they can afford a Manhattan penthouse apartment. Not bad! I though I remember reading somewhere (don't ask me where, though!) that Donna received a hefty income from her "mother" Hippolyta. I could be mistaken, though. Would I have preferred to see these character moments spread out over a dozen issues rather than crammed into one issue? Yes, the payoff would have been stronger. Still, Wolfman and Perez make it work on a smaller emotional scale. I definitely think the relationship with Kory and Crandall was really rushed, which lessened the emotional impact of his death for me. It just made me wonder how Starfire could be so upset over the death of someone she seemingly (to me, anyway) just met. Yeah, different culture and all, but still. As an aside, I'm up to #21 of the Baxter series, and I'm still not sure what Kory sees in Dick. It seems to me he mostly just brushes her off or criticizes her for her violent nature. It seems like they've only had one issue of unequivocal mutual happiness together that I can remember.
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Post by shaxper on Jun 2, 2020 14:00:14 GMT -5
I though I remember reading somewhere (don't ask me where, though!) that Donna received a hefty income from her "mother" Hippolyta. I could be mistaken, though. You're correct. She mentions that she receives a regular stipend. in NTT #3. [/quote] I think that was the point, though. Everyone knew it was meaningless and not really love except for Kory, and ain't that just like real life friends in relationships? They fall so hard over people that are not right for them, and you're stuck on the sidelines, unsure of how to intervene and help (or even if you should). It made this entire issue feel very authentic to me, as these relationships often do seem to come up out of the blue and then vanish just as quickly. She sort of got stuck on him in that first issue and doesn't seem able to let it go after. I guess we get people in our blood like that, sometimes. At first, she thought he was some fierce warrior come to save her after a lifetime of servitude. I can see why that impression would last long after learning who he really is and that they don't jibe very well. But I agree. Lousy couple.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 2, 2020 14:01:18 GMT -5
New Teen Titans #17 (March 1982) Does it matter these days that this is the first appearance of Frances Kane? Apparently she is a hero named Magenta now. News to me. Anyway, it sure seems like this issue was setting her up to become a new member of the team, and then there was a change of plans at the last moment. Why else introduce a new teenager and spend a whole issue giving her powers and an origin story? And yet, by the close of the story, her powers were just extra magnetic waves in the brain and are neutralized: Magenta? That's news to me, too. It definitely seemed to me, too, that she was being set up to be a Titan. Maybe that idea died when they decided to ditch Wally? New Teen Titans #17 (March 1982) Incidentally, I'm still sick of Wally and need him to leave the team already. Why do Marv and George keep waffling on this? Yeah, I was pretty sick of Wally's waffling and whining by now too. Go already! New Teen Titans #17 (March 1982) - Whereas Raven's body was previously depicted as upright but lifeless when her soul-self leaves it, we've now got her soul-self working at maximum power and larger than Titans Tower while Raven is able to be present and move about freely, only unable to use her powers: Yes, I was surprised by Raven' talking while her Soul Self was gone, too. New Teen Titans #17 (March 1982) Perez is adhering to his diagram of Titans Tower (from issue #7) very carefully: This is jumping a bit ahead, but in the Baxter series, they have to rebuild Titans Tower (for reasons I won't go into) and it is described as being 300 feet tall! Wow! Granted, this is apparently a new design, but from the outside it sure looks the same as the old building, and I never envisioned it being anywere near 300 feet tall. !00 feet, maybe. New Teen Titans #17 (March 1982) - It's been a while since Perez has done all the penciling himself. Still, he manages to wow me with his breakdowns at least once per issue: Yeah, I still think Perez is the best.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 2, 2020 14:06:43 GMT -5
This is jumping a bit ahead, but in the Baxter series, they have to rebuild Titans Tower (for reasons I won't go into) and it is described as being 300 feet tall! Wow! Granted, this is apparently a new design, but from the outside it sure looks the same as the old building, and I never envisioned it being anywere near 300 feet tall. !00 feet, maybe. I read the Baxter run once in my twenties and only vaguely remember the first eight issues. The rest is almost entirely forgotten. Do they include a diagram of the new tower? Assuming the old one was 300 feet tall, that's more than 40 feet per level (the sixth level is almost 3x taller than the remaining five), which doesn't match what we've seen of the interiors thus far. Even if you include the subterranean levels and count the sixth level as triple tall, the private quarters would still each be over twenty feet tall.
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Post by rberman on Jun 2, 2020 14:47:54 GMT -5
Oh boy do I have some questions about this one. Editorial should have been more involved. New Teen Titans #17 (March 1982) "The Possessing of Frances Kane!" Anyway, it sure seems like this issue was setting her up to become a new member of the team, and then there was a change of plans at the last moment. Why else introduce a new teenager and spend a whole issue giving her powers and an origin story? And yet, by the close of the story, her powers were just extra magnetic waves in the brain and are neutralized: Good point about the aborted origin story. That's all a matter of dialogue; the art fits either outcome. Reverse engineering this issue, the goals seem to have been: (1) Let's give Wally a spotlight issue. (2) His main character hooks are "college" and "conflicted emotions about Raven." Work those in. (3) How about "Wally needs Raven's help with a supernatural mystery at his college?" As you said, Stephen King's "Carrie" does the heavy lifting from there on out. The story is divided into three titled chapters like a Silver Age story, but there are actually four different demon attacks: 1) Wally alone at Frances' house 2) Wally and Raven at Frances' house 3) All the Titans at a Blue Valley College lab (more on this below) 4) Titans Tower finale At some points in comic book history, the fights were the main attraction. But this is the 80s, and Wolfman aims higher for character development, as seen last issue. So I'm going to call "filler" on the third fight in particular. This is where they tried to have their cake and eat it too once again. They set up the story as a horror story, complete with horror tropes like pentagrams, candles, and Deutsch angle framing: But the final revelation is that this is a science-based foe, defeated by Cyborg, not Raven. Why didn't they provide a footnote to Green Lantern #135 (1980) in which Doctor Polaris is scattered across the universe as energy? It cost them drama points to keep Polaris' identity secret until the last page. The Titans face an inscrutable foe with unclear motives, and it just gets tedious for four fights. This is why comic book villains are so eager to share their motives with the hero and the audience. No motive, no interest. And then when the punchline is, "Huh? Who's Doctor Polaris?" it falls flat. An excellent opportunity for editorial to have stepped in to question the plot. It would have made more sense if Polaris' attempt to break through into our dimension just paralyzed Frances, who was driving, and thus the car goes off the cliff, killing her brother and father. Her susceptibility to Polaris' magnetic forces is evidence of latent Magneto powers within her, to be awakened either now or in a future issue. This point in particular makes me wonder whether Perez plotted the whole issue Marvel-style, and Wolfman just flubbed when scripting the captions explaining why the car went off the road. This reminds me: Where is the indoor swimming facility seen at the beginning of the previous issue? Note also that T2 on the top level has Robin's Sky-Cycle, which he was riding last issue. Yep. Cyborg is the obvious candidate for "team techie," but the plot makes a point of having him not in the building at the beginning of the combat. He would also be the member most susceptible to a magnetic attack. We are actually told later, though it could be clearer. This takes place in a tall building in Blue Valley, Nebraska. Or is this just a tall computer in the Blue Valley lab? Could be either I guess. A few other things that jumped out: * Speaking of "Blue Valley, Nebraska," Frances is from there too right? So her family died when their car went off one of those cliffs for which Nebraska is so famous. The ones with a mall on top of a mountain: * The timetable is surprisingly slothful. OK, Wally finds out that Frances' mother is psycho, and that a demon is attacking Frances. He uses his super-speed to get Raven to help immediately, right? Nope; he waits a week. When that mission fails, two weeks pass before we next see the team. Perhaps we can assume that Blue Valley scientists have been working with Frances that whole time, rather than just cooling their heels. But is Blue Valley really the place to do this work, if there's time to move her? This is why I say this third demon episode is filler. Another two days before the next attack at Titans Tower, though as Shaxper said this scene really should have been at STAR Labs. "Half a continent away," because the previous Blue Valley College scene was in Nebraska, though the word "Nebraska" was omitted. That's why Frances' mom was in the Blue Valley lab. Finally, I applaud Wolfman and especially Perez for showing the heroes in civilian garb so much, especially when "off duty." I understand but regret the convention that we need to see the costumes as often as possible. This leads to Wally stopping to don his costume when Frances and Mrs. Kane are under attack, even though the two women are unconscious: And then a few seconds later, he decides to take his costume off again: The luxuries of those with super-speed.
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Post by rberman on Jun 2, 2020 15:07:39 GMT -5
This is jumping a bit ahead, but in the Baxter series, they have to rebuild Titans Tower (for reasons I won't go into) and it is described as being 300 feet tall! Wow! Granted, this is apparently a new design, but from the outside it sure looks the same as the old building, and I never envisioned it being anywere near 300 feet tall. !00 feet, maybe. I read the Baxter run once in my twenties and only vaguely remember the first eight issues. The rest is almost entirely forgotten. Do they include a diagram of the new tower? Assuming the old one was 300 feet tall, that's more than 40 feet per level (the sixth level is almost 3x taller than the remaining five), which doesn't match what we've seen of the interiors thus far. Even if you include the subterranean levels and count the sixth level as triple tall, the private quarters would still each be over twenty feet tall. I'm going to guess that the preposterous 300 foot idea comes from the (equally preposterous) need to fit the SkyJet into the horizontal section of the "T." If the jet is 75 feet long (75 feet tall when vertical), and the horizontal section is 25% the height of the whole building to keep the "T" proportional, then the whole building has to be 300 feet tall. This in turn probably goes back to the (also preposterous) rocket that the Fantastic Four house in the top of the Baxter Building. Think of the thrust involved in vertically launching a rocket big enough for half a dozen passengers, and then think of the forces exerted on a hollow girder frame building. Uhh.... yeah.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 2, 2020 20:20:24 GMT -5
Issue #16 is a stand-alone episode with two plots: Starfire and Donna deal with boy trouble, and the other Titans rescue a kidnapped model. This allows for two brief fight scenes and a whole lot of character development. Wolfman is trying to have his cake and eat it too. First, doubtless on order from editorial, he wants a one-in-done story rather than a sprawling Claremontian epic that might get canceled before it reaches its climax. Based on what evidence? I call shenanigans on the idea that there was an editorial edict to do "done-in-one" stories, at DC. They had multi-parters all the time. Roy Thomas was in the middle of that with All-Star Squadron. Legion had several and was 3 months away from the prologue to the Great Darkness Saga. Gerry Conway had multi-parters in JLA. the Flash had some (Death of Iris ran across at least 3 or 4 issues. Warlord had several long running subplots. Unless someone can provide a quote from Marv or George that there was editorial pressure not to do long storylines it didn't exist. Len Wein is the editor and Marv's bestest buddy and let him have his way with the series. He had run through some extended storylines already. This was the breather in between, nothing more. He would be taking up a multi-parter fairly quickly, plus, establishing more subplots (Baron Blood, more with Trigon and Deathstroke). I also laugh at the idea that anyone felt that the book was on the cusp of cancellation, at any point. It was pretty much a hit, right out of the gate and a big one, before the first year was up. DC was very happy and was promoting the book heavily. Issue 16 featured prominently in a house ad. Wolfman and Perez were the darlings of the fanzines and comic news media. The theory has been bandied here because of how much was crammed into the first ten issues of the series. Could the real reason be relatively simple, like those were storylines that Wolfman had prepared when pitching the series? That might also explain some of the seeming disconnect between Marv and George, based on some of the art. Is it not possible that Perez was working from early plot outlines and then added his own touches that surprised Marv and he had to scramble to adjust. I didn't read 16 until later and was never invested in it; so, no real comment on the issue, except this. The Hive was a pretty weak organization; but, they did pop up elsewhere. It was no worse than The 100. I did read 17 and it was okay, for what it was. The next issue blew it and the previous away and was one of my favorites of this year, before Blackfire enters the scene (hard to count Baron Blood, as that was just the preliminaries to their fight). Frances did eventually appear as a hero, called Magenta, with magnetic powers; but, was used very little. She'd return about half way into the third year and bounce in and out, into the Baxter series. She got the name Magenta in Teen Titan Spotlight #16 (preview) and 17 (actual star of issue) , in 1987.
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Post by shaxper on Jun 3, 2020 8:49:20 GMT -5
This reminds me: Where is the indoor swimming facility seen at the beginning of the previous issue? Derr..ummm....uhh? I hadn't caught that. Thanks! Another nice catch. You mean you're not going to circle back to the X-Men on this one?
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