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Post by dbutler69 on Mar 31, 2019 16:57:03 GMT -5
Having re-read I'm not sure I have a huge amount to add to what Shax had to say. He liked this preview more than I did on the re-read, but that's fine. A few things that struck me. This is very much a Bronze Age Superhero funnybook, something I haven't read much of in a long time. One almost wonders if Wolfman is being paid by the word because this one is overwritten to a large degree. And I know that was the custom at the time (see also Thomas, McGregor, etc.). The idea of not telling the reader what they're already seeing was not a big thing at the time. It is good that Cyborg has a legitimate beef with his situation. Tony Stark, for example, always annoyed the crap out of me. "OH NOES!! I'm one of the richest men in the world and I'm incredibly handsome, but I have to have a super-powered pacemaker so I can't know love or happiness! Wah!!" Cyborg clearly has a lot more to grouse about. Though being alive is probably a plus. Kid Flash's infatuation with Raven didn't ring true to me. I vaguely recall this will be addressed later on, but it just didn't work in this story. Overall though it's a decent start to set the stage for the first issue without giving away too much or setting up a lot that you would miss without having read this story. I could be mistaken, as it's been a few years, but I thought it was revealed that (as Icctrombone suggests) Raven had bewitched him into loving her. I think that that, along with Wally's general whiny-ness, was a major reason why he eventually left the team.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 31, 2019 17:02:36 GMT -5
Kid Flash's infatuation with Raven didn't ring true to me. I vaguely recall this will be addressed later on, but it just didn't work in this story. I could be mistaken, as it's been a few years, but I thought it was revealed that (as Icctrombone suggests) Raven had bewitched him into loving her. I think that that, along with Wally's general whiny-ness, was a major reason why he eventually left the team. It's been so many years that I can't remember. And I guess we'll see what happens. But if it turns out that she's bewitching him, I'm going to call shenanigans over the rest of the team (particularly Robin and Wonder Girl) not kicking her out on her ass. "It's okay that you mentally manipulated our old dear friend, stranger who we barely know," doesn't quite cut it in my book.
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 31, 2019 17:24:51 GMT -5
Early on , Wally was a bit obsessed with her. We will see.
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Post by String on Mar 31, 2019 18:01:32 GMT -5
Yeah, their 'relationship' wasn't natural. I believe there was some form of manipulation by Raven in that regard and if memory serves, part of Wally's problem was he never could get a straight answer from her as to whether she truly felt that way towards him or not (and vice versa for him) Of course, this lead to his whining on the subject.
We'll see as the reviews move forward however my main gripe though is that they just appear to be a lame duck pairing to begin with, why try and match those two together at all?
Part of that may stem from Wolfman's apparent view of speedsters in general. In The Flash Companion by Keith Dallas, Wolfman said that the very nature of Wally's speed meant that upon being notified of a crime, he should arrive at and resolve that crime before anyone else arrived on scene.
"But a team book requires that the entire team get to the scene at the same time. What I wanted to do was slow him down to the speed of sound...I de-powered Wally so he can fit into the team. I like Wally and I thought he was a really solid character."
It's a valid viewpoint I think but I admire Wolfman's resolve in finding a way to fit Wally into the team regardless.
As for this initial story, I re-read it and pretty much agree with everyone's observations so far. It does a bang on job of introducing these new characters through Robin the viewpoint character, setting up the status quo of the team and strong first impressions of their personalities and relationships within the group while also leaving much of their origins in the dark (with the exception of Vic and yeah that type of behaviour would earn Worst Father of the Year Award).
I have to say though, in hindsight, we kinda take it for granted now that Titans Tower has become one of the more iconic comic HQs of all time. Wow though at the sheer simplicity yet striking design for it. A large metallic T tower on an isolated island. Seeing that screams for a tower layout design spread (which I do think we get at some later point). I love the large poster photos of team members in the meeting room.
Also, I may not have paid all that much attention to it when I was kid but I find it interesting and refreshing that this (and much of their stories) take place in New York City and not Metropolis or Gotham or some other fictional DC city. I'm not sure why they decided on this but I for one am glad for this semi-reality swipe more commonly found over at Marvel.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 31, 2019 19:28:21 GMT -5
My recollection is that she nudged him; but, didn't outright put a "love spell" on him. It becomes clearer what he motivations are when we get into her background. The problem was her nudging kind of backfired, when Kid Flash became enamored of her and she felt guilty about it and kept him at arms length, coupled with needing to maintain control of her emotions, due to her heritage. As I recall, her intent was to make him receptive to her call for help and his reaction went beyond just being receptive to her needs.
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 31, 2019 19:37:12 GMT -5
Yeah, their 'relationship' wasn't natural. I believe there was some form of manipulation by Raven in that regard and if memory serves, part of Wally's problem was he never could get a straight answer from her as to whether she truly felt that way towards him or not (and vice versa for him) Of course, this lead to his whining on the subject. We'll see as the reviews move forward however my main gripe though is that they just appear to be a lame duck pairing to begin with, why try and match those two together at all? Part of that may stem from Wolfman's apparent view of speedsters in general. In The Flash Companion by Keith Dallas, Wolfman said that the very nature of Wally's speed meant that upon being notified of a crime, he should arrive at and resolve that crime before anyone else arrived on scene. "But a team book requires that the entire team get to the scene at the same time. What I wanted to do was slow him down to the speed of sound...I de-powered Wally so he can fit into the team. I like Wally and I thought he was a really solid character."
It's a valid viewpoint I think but I admire Wolfman's resolve in finding a way to fit Wally into the team regardless. As for this initial story, I re-read it and pretty much agree with everyone's observations so far. It does a bang on job of introducing these new characters through Robin the viewpoint character, setting up the status quo of the team and strong first impressions of their personalities and relationships within the group while also leaving much of their origins in the dark (with the exception of Vic and yeah that type of behaviour would earn Worst Father of the Year Award). I have to say though, in hindsight, we kinda take it for granted now that Titans Tower has become one of the more iconic comic HQs of all time. Wow though at the sheer simplicity yet striking design for it. A large metallic T tower on an isolated island. Seeing that screams for a tower layout design spread (which I do think we get at some later point). I love the large poster photos of team members in the meeting room. Also, I may not have paid all that much attention to it when I was kid but I find it interesting and refreshing that this (and much of their stories) take place in New York City and not Metropolis or Gotham or some other fictional DC city. I'm not sure why they decided on this but I for one am glad for this semi-reality swipe more commonly found over at Marvel. Wolfman and Perez both lived in NYC, and more specifically, Queens Ny. And the Titans tower is based on a restaurant that is on the area of the 1964 worlds fair, which was held in Flushing Queens. They still have some of the exhibits still standing although some are in dilapidated shape. I used to take a yearly trek there and ride my bike on the grounds.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 31, 2019 20:34:27 GMT -5
Early on , Wally was a bit obsessed with her. We will see. My recollection is that someone suggested that Raven could bewitch him, but she denied it.. but he left just in case.
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Post by tarkintino on Apr 1, 2019 6:44:39 GMT -5
I mean, I don't hate Sal Buscema art the way I do, say, some of Ditko's 80s atrocities. Dick Dillin seems an apt point of comparison. I wouldn't quibble if you rank Sal a little higher than Dillin. Both were clear and reliable and probably pleasant. But he's not in the tier of artists whose work gets sought out because of their involvement. True. Back in the 70s when Sal Buscmea was the long-running artist on Captain America and the Falcon, it was the pure strength of the stories that drew me to the title, as I found his work lacking, and never found his being so omnipresent on various Marvel titles a good thing, but he was their go-to guy. As for DC Comics Presents #26 and The New Teen Titans #1, I was there to experience it as it happened, and I was instantly drawn to it, one, because I was already a fan of the original Teen Titans comic (and the idea of sidekicks moving out from under the shadows of their mentors), and two, because I--like just about everyone else on earth--found the late 70s revival to be a creative failure across the board. That said, the NTT was like being allowed to run after having your feet stuck in cement for an eternity, with whatever direction taken being creatively liberating, finally seeing teen heroes treated with the mix of respect and great storytelling so rare to this sub-genre. Most of all, the Wolfman handling of Grayson/Robin was the lynchpin of NTT--not simply due to his longtime status as team leader, but Wolfman (unlike the previous revival) picked up on the growth of the character that had been steadily building since the late, post-TV Batman 60s, but sort of scattered to the winds by the mid 70s. Wolfman's Grayson/Robin was truly an adult (despite the comic title), and starting to carry his own weight, like one would expect of a young man who left his mentor, tired college, etc. He was no longer the "teen wonder," but Wolfman transformed him into one of the best team leaders (with an identity all his own) of any comic company. There was no 1966 TV Robin or 70s Super Friends Robin to be found here, and I loved that.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,862
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Post by shaxper on Apr 1, 2019 7:45:41 GMT -5
I will be posting my review of NTT #1 tonight or tomorrow night, as time permits. Thanks for your patience, as well as for all the awesome contributions thus far!
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Post by brutalis on Apr 1, 2019 7:47:11 GMT -5
Count me as someone who knew of the Teen Titan's but never had any of the original run or was overly interested in them. I picked up DCCP for the Starlin issue and was surprised to find Wolfman and Perez inside on New Teen Titans doing an X-Men riff. Found this at the new LCS which opened across from the Community College in my freshman year and immediately added it to my limited pull list there. This was Marvel style storytelling with the 3 best Teen Titans members (sorry Speedy and Aqualad) along with a variety of new and Changeling who I knew of from Doom Patrol. A very interesting mix with spectacular Perez artwork. I was in for this run from that starting point!
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 1, 2019 7:59:15 GMT -5
Count me as someone who new of the Teen Titan's but never had any of the original run or was overly interested in them. I picked up DCCP for the Starlin issue and was surprised to find Wolfman and Perez inside on New Teen Titans doing an X-Men riff. Found this at the new LCS which opened across from the Community College in my freshman year and immediately added it to my limited pull list there. This was Marvel style storytelling with the 3 best Teen Titans members (sorry Speedy and Aqualad) along with a variety of new and Changeling who I knew of from Doom Patrol. A very interesting mix with spectacular Perez artwork. I was in for this run from that starting point! Me Too!!!! I agree about the Marvel Style storytelling. Perez brought that with him when he joined DC.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,862
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Post by shaxper on Apr 1, 2019 8:21:07 GMT -5
Count me as someone who new of the Teen Titan's but never had any of the original run or was overly interested in them. I picked up DCCP for the Starlin issue and was surprised to find Wolfman and Perez inside on New Teen Titans doing an X-Men riff. Found this at the new LCS which opened across from the Community College in my freshman year and immediately added it to my limited pull list there. This was Marvel style storytelling with the 3 best Teen Titans members (sorry Speedy and Aqualad) along with a variety of new and Changeling who I knew of from Doom Patrol. A very interesting mix with spectacular Perez artwork. I was in for this run from that starting point! Me Too!!!! I agree about the Marvel Style storytelling. Perez brought that with him when he joined DC. Don't forget that Wolfman was coming from Marvel too. In fact, he'd briefly served as Editor.
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 1, 2019 8:35:56 GMT -5
Me Too!!!! I agree about the Marvel Style storytelling. Perez brought that with him when he joined DC. Don't forget that Wolfman was coming from Marvel too. In fact, he'd briefly served as Editor. The big two often traded writers but Perez brought the marvel style to Dc in the 80's. Kirby came in 72 , but apparently didn't have the influence on their art style that he should have.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 9:22:45 GMT -5
shaxper ... I really enjoyed this book that came out in February 2008 and it was surprisingly good from start to finish. Loved the artwork and everything in between.
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 1, 2019 10:26:59 GMT -5
I will be posting my review of NTT #1 tonight or tomorrow night, as time permits. Thanks for your patience, as well as for all the awesome contributions thus far! Tonight !
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