|
|
Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Apr 21, 2019 14:08:48 GMT -5
Oh I agree. Early Spidey was full of depressing tones which fit it but when Romita came on board in was what was needed. I do think Ditkos bleak outlook would have destroyed the character. It’s likely why none of his subsequent stuff never lasted as long.
|
|
|
|
Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 21, 2019 17:01:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think Romita could have launched Spider-Man, though. I just don't see the sense of worldbuilding and design in Romita's stuff.
But agreed that Ditko needed Stan to create a great comic, and that was never gonna last long term. You can definitely feel the burn-out in the last half dozen Ditko issues. While Romita was easier to work with and probably would have been happy doing Spider-Man long term if that was what his bosses assigned him.
(I think there was a lot of really weak stuff in the Romita run too. But I definitely don't blame Romita for that - the shifting to smaller art boards and the emphais on single issue stories circa 1968-69* hurt the entire Marvel line, Spidey especially.)
* Correct me if I'm wrong on the timeline here. I'm doing family stuff and don't have time to google.
|
|
|
|
Post by spoon on Apr 21, 2019 19:20:46 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think Romita could have launched Spider-Man, though. I just don't see the sense of worldbuilding and design in Romita's stuff. But agreed that Ditko needed Stan to create a great comic, and that was never gonna last long term. You can definitely feel the burn-out in the last half dozen Ditko issues. While Romita was easier to work with and probably would have been happy doing Spider-Man long term if that was what his bosses assigned him. (I think there was a lot of really weak stuff in the Romita run too. But I definitely don't blame Romita for that - the shifting to smaller art boards and the emphais on single issue stories circa 1968-69* hurt the entire Marvel line, Spidey especially.) * Correct me if I'm wrong on the timeline here. I'm doing family stuff and don't have time to google. I actually like the Romita era more than Ditko's run, but Romita definitely worked of what Ditko established. One of the most telling things to me is to look at the villains who originated during their runs. A huge number of major Spider-Man villains were created during Ditko's tenure. There was one biggie under Romita (the Kingpin), plus Rhino and the Shocker. It's pretty meager after that, although I know Romita is credited as a co-creator for behind-the-scenes work done on character launched under other pencilers, like the Punisher. |
|
|
|
Post by chadwilliam on Apr 26, 2019 0:17:25 GMT -5
I noticed that the Home Page here linking to this thread reads "STEVE DITKO created The Green Goblin, or so resident comic-scholar, Reptisaurus!, is ready to prove!" It's not quite what the thread is about, but it has reminded me that Dial B for Blog! did address The Goblin's creation a while back: Who created the Green Goblin? Like the creation of Spidey himself, Stan came up with the name, and Ditko did the rest -- designing the character's appearance and all his "accessories," including his broomstick jet-glider, explosive pumpkins, etc. Most importantly, Ditko made the Goblin HUMAN. Literally!
Ditko: "Stan's synopsis for the Green Goblin had a movie crew, on location, finding an Egyptian-like sarcophagus. Inside was an ancient, mythological demon, the Green Goblin. He naturally came to life. On my own, I changed Stan's mythological demon into a human villain." (The Comics, A Mini-History #1: "The Green Goblin")
"I rejected Stan's idea," Ditko says, because, "A mythological demon made the whole Peter Parker/Spider-Man world a place where nothing is metaphyscially impossible."
www.dialbforblog.com/archives/695/ditko6.html
I certainly wouldn't agree with the claim that "like the creation of Spidey himself, Stan came up with the name, and Ditko did the rest" which is obviously preposterous, but as it pertains to The Goblin...
There's often a suggestion that Lee was good at reining in Ditko from time to time and while this may or may not have been the case, it's clear that sometimes it was Ditko reining in Lee. It was also Ditko who thought that Lee's idea to make The Vulture look like actor Sydney Greenstreet  was a mistake, hence Ditko opting for a slimmer, vulturish look for his Adrian Toomes. I do wonder if Lee didn't return to Greenstreet when coming up with The Kingpin though. Anyhoo, I just wanted to chime in and point out that Ditko was far more sensible than he's perhaps been given credit for within the fan community. I mean, a fat Vulture? A demon Green Goblin? Though come to think of it, I remember the Spider-Man cartoon having The Green Goblin display a passionate interest in the supernatural in at least one episode. |
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Apr 26, 2019 10:38:22 GMT -5
In the 60s cartoon the Green Goblin was a magical creature, an actual imp.
|
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Apr 26, 2019 13:53:50 GMT -5
In the 60s cartoon the Green Goblin was a magical creature, an actual imp. Actually, he was just a man. He appeared in two episodes from the first season of Spider-Man: in "Magic Malice," he stole Blackwell the Magician's tricks, spell books, etc., just to commit crimes, such as robbing parking meters, stealing cash and jewels, etc. His second and final appearance was in the episode "To Catch a Spider," where Dr. Noah Boddy (Invisible Man clone) broke the Goblin, Vulture & Electro out of prison to set them on a revenge plot against Spider-Man, but their rivalry/desperation to be the one to eliminate Spider-Man allowed the web-slinger to defeat the trio and their leader. This version was--ultimately--a common criminal. There was no Norman Osborn, no knowing Spider-Man's true identity, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by Phil Maurice on Apr 26, 2019 15:03:03 GMT -5
Actually, he was just a man. He appeared in two episodes from the first season of Spider-ManThere was also The Witching Hour from season one. There, the Goblin steals a grimoire from Grandini the magician in order to summon a gang of ghosts to do his bidding. |
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Apr 26, 2019 15:59:38 GMT -5
Actually, he was just a man. He appeared in two episodes from the first season of Spider-ManThere was also The Witching Hour from season one. There, the Goblin steals a grimoire from Grandini the magician in order to summon a gang of ghosts to do his bidding. You are right! Thanks for the reminder/correction. I know Grantray-Lawrence Animation was not going to go too deep into villain lore (aside from the Lizard and the Scorpion, strangely enough), but making the TV Green Goblin a random hood seeking or using tricks was always disappointing. |
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Apr 26, 2019 16:00:21 GMT -5
Hmm, I'm 100% sure I saw an episode a few years back where he was a magical goblin. I know they sometimes had variations on villains (I remember two different versions of Mysterio) so maybe they did it both ways?
|
|
|
|
Post by Duragizer on Apr 26, 2019 18:15:17 GMT -5
I've long wondered why Gobbie never appeared in the Bakshi seasons. He had green skin, after all.
|
|
|
|
Post by aquagoat on Apr 27, 2019 6:05:44 GMT -5
I do miss the Lee/Ditko version of Spidey - he was essentially an anti-hero, a very troubled, brooding, isolated young man filled with rage at the world. I loved how Ditko's Spidey was weird looking rather than heroic (he looks no less creepy than the Vulture or Doctor Octopus), how his villains were seedy no-gooders rather than world conquerors. His characaters always look small and frail, even the villains, as if they are all being swept along by life/the story.
There was a very urban, realistic, hard-knock-life vibe to it which mixed with the surreal and creepy visuals to create something unique.
|
|
|
|
Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 27, 2019 6:49:59 GMT -5
In the 60s cartoon the Green Goblin was a magical creature, an actual imp. Actually, he was just a man. He appeared in two episodes from the first season of Spider-Man: in "Magic Malice," he stole Blackwell the Magician's tricks, spell books, etc., just to commit crimes, such as robbing parking meters, stealing cash and jewels, etc. His second and final appearance was in the episode "To Catch a Spider," where Dr. Noah Boddy (Invisible Man clone) broke the Goblin, Vulture & Electro out of prison to set them on a revenge plot against Spider-Man, but their rivalry/desperation to be the one to eliminate Spider-Man allowed the web-slinger to defeat the trio and their leader. This version was--ultimately--a common criminal. There was no Norman Osborn, no knowing Spider-Man's true identity, etc. Weird! I suspect that Ditko was probably not happy about that. |
|
|
|
Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 27, 2019 10:39:02 GMT -5
Having never seen the '60s Spider-Man cartoon I watched some of these on youtube.
Wow.
That...was...something.
It was shoddy and weird looking but it did capture a little of Stan Lee's voice.
And, I'm really not a big cartoon guy. I generally don't find them super interesting. But this one had my full attention throughout the entire 10 minute run-time, which is worth something.
|
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Apr 27, 2019 11:42:38 GMT -5
I've long wondered why Gobbie never appeared in the Bakshi seasons. He had green skin, after all. Green skin, but he was not dressed like a coffee shop hipster, nutjob guru, mad scientist or alien, which was a running kind of costume design for villains in the Bakshi season (just take a look at the "Mysterio" of the Bakshi season). The Kingpin was somewhat comic-accurate, but the rest...not so much. |
|
|
|
Post by Duragizer on Apr 27, 2019 20:35:05 GMT -5
Having never seen the '60s Spider-Man cartoon I watched some of these on youtube. Wow. That...was...something. It was shoddy and weird looking but it did capture a little of Stan Lee's voice. And, I'm really not a big cartoon guy. I generally don't find them super interesting. But this one had my full attention throughout the entire 10 minute run-time, which is worth something. You really need to check out the Bakshi episodes to get the full flavour. |
|
