|
Post by The Captain on Apr 28, 2019 9:02:27 GMT -5
Not only sales of new issues are weak. Sales of back issues are probably way down too. Without new collectors entering the fray, the old collectors will have acquired what they want by now, except for key issues. This isn't surprising. With salaries stagnant and many folks having trouble finding better-than-subsistence-level jobs, disposable income is down. If forced to choose which among rent, insurance, food, and comic books to spend their income on, it's easy to see why sales of comics are down.
|
|
|
Post by Cei-U! on Apr 28, 2019 9:53:25 GMT -5
I can't afford new comics, I certainly can't afford to maintain a pull list, and I haven't been able to since I had to go on Social Security Disability 20 years ago. There was a time when I had more than 50 titles on my pull list. I do still buy back issues but I have to set money aside for six months just to hit the dollar boxes at Emerald City or Jet City. It's embarrassing when people who know I'm a comics buff ask me about something going on the industry and I have to profess utter ignorance of anything that's happened in the last two decades.
Cei-U! I summon the changing times!
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Apr 28, 2019 16:59:49 GMT -5
I never thought of my LCS closing its doors. I think that might be it for me, I don't think I'll order new comics in the mail if they do close for good.
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on Apr 29, 2019 6:39:10 GMT -5
I never thought of my LCS closing its doors. I think that might be it for me, I don't think I'll order new comics in the mail if they do close for good. I know the feeling. I've been going to the same LCS for well over 30 years, since my grandmother was carting me there once a month when I was 13 or 14. It changed owners in the early 90s, but it's been the same guy since then, and the same primary FT employee working for him for about a decade. I see guys I went to HS with there, and it is one of two places I go and spend more than a handful of minutes (the other is a gaming shop). It's like home.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Apr 29, 2019 8:04:46 GMT -5
I don't think I buy enough to justify getting mail order, plus the big two just aren’t that good anymore.
|
|
|
Post by brutalis on Apr 29, 2019 8:39:53 GMT -5
Comic books are the last purchase versus being the 1st purchase for kids/teens/adults these days. As a child I saved nickels and dimes to spend at the local convenience stores. How do you hold onto those coins now when any store for comic books is 30-50 minutes away? Spending money goes to those things you want and "need" the most in your mind. Comic books are not "it" anymore for most people. I visit the the LCS maybe once a month anymore where as a teen I would be there every Thursday morning for the new releases.
And speaking of new releases: I don't really enjoy anything coming out currently other than a handful of series. Which a handful of comics from s handful of customers will NOT keep a shop open over the long haul.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Apr 29, 2019 8:45:30 GMT -5
Those comic shops that survive will do so by diversifying into other genre interests, selling and giving space for the playing of collectible card games and tabletop miniatures and the like. Even for the shrinking base of people who buy new floppy comics, mail order will do fine; there's no need to drive. And for any newbies just getting into comics (I know a few, and I mean few), there are more currently in print in trade volumes than could be read in a lifetime.
|
|
|
Post by impulse on Apr 29, 2019 9:15:52 GMT -5
I think it's a combo of all of the things people have said. Disposable income is down, there is WAY more competition for disposable income these days, massive inflation on comic prices, the general decline of retail, etc.
Speaking for me, I drastically cut back and then cancelled my sub altogether due to rising cover prices, fracturing of the line into way too many redundant titles with no unique point or story, and changing budget priorities. I moved away from my longtime LCS and had been on a monthly mail order with them for a while which was frankly pretty great. They showed up bagged and boarded with a list of any new titles if I wanted to add or drop. I just had an ever-growing pile of unread comics, and then my wife got laid off, so that did it.
There is clearly interest in the characters and IP. Endgame did $1.2 Billion with a B opening weekend. I suspect comics is just a declining archaic medium sadly.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 9:37:29 GMT -5
One thing to note on pricing of comics-comparing the cost of comics now o some point in the past and juxtaposing it to the inflation rate is not really a valid comparison. Comics in the 70s, 80s and even 90s, were a mass market product produced on a larger scale for the mass market. Comics in the 21st century are a niche product, not a mass market product, produced on a much smaller scale, and niche products always cost more then a similar product on the mass market because economy of scale works against them.
If comics were still a mass market product sold in a volume that allowed economy of scale to lower per unit pricing, they would have a lower price. But as individual periodical comics become more and more of a niche product (and sell fewer copies only to a niche collectors market) expect cover prices t rise even more. Niche products always cost more, especially hobby niche products, which is essentially what new floppy comics are.
They are sold only in specialty shops, distributed by a limited number of companies (in this case 1-Diamond), and have a customer base that has little growth potential and has been locked into buying them a certain way for an extended period of time and are resistant to other market models. The comics market of the 20th century is apples the 21st century market's oranges.
If you look at price comparisons between any product that moves form mass market to niche, you will see price increases in those products always outpace expected price increases based on inflation rates and increase of prices on materials needed for production. Comics have become inordinately expensive because they have become a niche product. Unless and until they become a mass market product again, prices will remain higher than comparable products on the mass market, and will be too high to be an impulse or casual purchase.
This is a consequence of leaving the mass market behind to focus on non-returnable sales of the direct specialty (read niche) market. An unintended consequence of this is that comic publishers retail partners do not have the capital resources to stock extra copies of product to be available to be sold to new customers, which severely limits growth potential and prevents volume form increasing at all to possibly move the needle towards the mass market volume needed to correct pricing. This is what makes it so difficult to transcend the niche market once you are in it. Niche markets produce only enough product for the known customer base and sell on a mostly preorder basis, where cost is passed on to the customer base because it is the only way a product gets made.
And the rise of crowdfunding comics to get made (via Kickstarter or other platforms) is the ultimate expression of this, but publishers set print runs based on Diamond preorders, and Diamond preorders are guaranteed sales, in essence crowdfunding comics on a larger scale. If there aren't enough preorders to fund a project, it gets cancelled (as we have seen with several trade collections from DC over the last several years).
The lcs is simply a vehicle to get preordered products to the customer who pledge their money via pull lists and preorders, and that is not enough to sustain a retail model for very long.
And as I posted elsewhere, if Steve Geppi retires (and he is close to retirement age and shedding his other comic related assets except for Haake's) and doesn't find a buyer for Diamond, then it is game over for the existing distribution infrastructure of the industry.
-M
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Apr 29, 2019 10:13:18 GMT -5
Disney or Warner’s could buy Diamond yesterday if they thought the floppy marker needed to be preserved. They don’t; ergo they haven’t. After Mandrakk has sucked all the IP mass media potential from Marvel and DC, he will turn out the lights and move on to something else for the next franchise. All Hail Mickey Eye.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 10:28:27 GMT -5
Disney or Warner’s could buy Diamond yesterday if they thought the floppy marker needed to be preserved. They don’t; ergo they haven’t. After Mandrakk has sucked all the IP mass media potential from Marvel and DC, he will turn out the lights and move on to something else for the next franchise. All Hail Mickey Eye. Diamond, as an independent operation, is guaranteed revenue without cost for Disney & Warner. It is labor intensive and not cost efficient. We have already seen Disney's preference to shop out work rather than do it themselves and bear the burden of production cost with low revenue generators (such as licensing the Disney comics, Star Wars and Marvel kids comics, etc. to IDW rather than publishing them themselves), so they would have no interest in buying into Diamond, since it would be a high cost low return investment (as Marvel already earned much to their chagrin with the Heroes World acquisition in the 90s). Diamond is not an attractive asset. It is labor intensive, inefficient, and not a big profit producer as the margins are fairly low. It is Geppi's passion for comics rather than his business acumen (or the revenues from Diamond) that keeps him in the game. Haake's is a much bigger earner (in terms of margins if not overall dollar amounts) under the Geppi umbrella, and is growing while Diamond is plateaued/shrinking. Disney or Warner could buy it, but why would they, as it serves no particular necessary function in their business model. They already have deals with other book distributors and publishing content licensees who could create content and get it to market without either having to take on a high cost low revenue business like Diamond. Diamond is convenient because it is an already existing infrastructure, but it is not necessary to them, and they would lean on other existing infrastructures to fill the gap should Diamond go away. However, for the other end of the retail chain, i.e. the comic retailers, Diamond is their lifeblood and they are not serviced by other existing distribution infrastructures, so for them, when Diamond games it is likely game over. -M
|
|
|
Post by impulse on Apr 29, 2019 11:12:49 GMT -5
Speaking only for myself, I did not mean to equate rising comic prices with literally just inflation rate. MRP's post is very enlightening as to the how's and why's of where we are, so thank you for that. All that said, it doesn't change the what, which is comic cover prices are drastically more expensive than they used to be and are well outside of impulse/casual entertainment spending budget. Considering alternative sources of entertainment with much greater entertainment-hours-per-dollar values, it's hard.
Curious on Diamond. With comic book movies being as big as they are, unless something drastically changes I would not be at all shocked if Disney or WB buy up Diamond if and when the time comes just for the value of having the comics still be a thing. Not even the books themselves, but just people knowing they are out there might be worth it as a form of marketing money. They might bring it all in house, but that might be more trouble than its worth for what is, let's be honest, a pittance for either Disney or WB.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 11:32:55 GMT -5
The store where I shop seems to be doing really good business. They do sell more than comics--Funko figures, toys, statues, and gaming. They also have been acquiring key issues of older comics. They also do live online auctions on Facebook. I have been in store when they have been doing those and they seem to do well. There are 4 comic shops where I live and all seem to be thriving.
|
|
|
Post by impulse on Apr 29, 2019 11:39:21 GMT -5
The store where I shop seems to be doing really good business. They do sell more than comics--Funko figures, toys, statues, and gaming. They also have been acquiring key issues of older comics. They also do live online auctions on Facebook. I have been in store when they have been doing those and they seem to do well. There are 4 comic shops where I live and all seem to be thriving. That is very cool to hear, and it sounds like they found a good way to adapt and survive. Even though I don't collect anymore, the comic shop is near and dear to my heart, so I like to see them doing well.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 11:57:46 GMT -5
I've talked previously about how I feel little incentive to buy single issues for an incomplete story when I can wait a few months for the trade. Buying single issues of a six or twelve-issue arc seems akin to buying single episodes of a TV series (if such a thing existed) rather than waiting for the full season boxset.
But I do buy something if it's compelling enough. I'm currently buying The Amazing Spider-Man due to the "Hunted" storyline (Kraven is hunting a lot of folk, good and bad). I am buying James Bond: Origin because of how compelling it is.
So if they create something compelling enough, I will buy. But the whole "decompressed storytelling" 'thing', while maybe a symptom (I accept mrp's ever-compelling posts), is a problem. Nearly £4 for a single issue is a lot for me. My income fluctuates. Back when I had a job with a consistent salary, I maybe could indulge myself in comics. But nowadays, I can sit there for hours waiting for a fare. I once sat from 9am to 1pm with just ONE fare. At Christmas Eve, I might be more busy as everyone wants to hail a cab and get home. But it fluctuates.
And while we all need some entertainment in our lives, I don't feel I can justify single issues to myself, not when I can wait for the trade. £3.35+ for one issue means it's £20.10+ to buy all six issues. And comics can be read quickly (think of the amount of speech bubbles in, say, a classic Avengers book). To wait for the trade, collecting all six issues, means I might pay £15 or less. When your income fluctuates, how can you argue with such logic?
Not everyone is a taxi driver, but all of you may have your own income restrictions. I feel I can justify a Netflix subscription for the month. Or a £10 book with 300+ pages. I don't feel I can justify comic prices to myself, not even when I enjoy tales. So I have to limit what I buy.
|
|