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Post by String on May 4, 2019 11:33:24 GMT -5
Whose comic work do you enjoy/prefer more?
I would choose Loeb, mostly because I've read more of his work than I have Straczynski's work. Long Halloween was good and Hush was okay. His color mini-series with Tim Sale were really good and he wrote one of my favorite Superman stories in Superman for All Seasons. His Superman run along with McGuiness remains a favorite as well.
As for JMS, I've been meaning to read his ASM run with Romita Jr. I did think he handled Peter's unmasking during Civil War quite well though, probably one of the more dramatic and thoughtful executions during that event.
Thoughts?
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Post by Graphic Autist on May 4, 2019 11:42:57 GMT -5
I voted Loeb. I haven’t read any JMS that I’m aware of. Spidey is one of my favorites, but I haven’t read any books with him in it since Carnage came along in the 90s.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 12:36:58 GMT -5
Loeb. He does big popcorn summer blockbusters (think Superman/Batman or Red Hulk) or emotional stories (the "color" stories like Daredevil:Yellow). JMS did some good stories but Sins Past and OMD leave lasting bad impressions. The delays on his projects like Squadron Supreme and the Twelve also hurt his reputation.
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Post by rberman on May 4, 2019 13:24:57 GMT -5
JMS’ best work is Babylon 5, which deserved its multiple Hugo awards. His comic book work is less impressive, but Rising Stars was good, and One More Day was not his idea.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 4, 2019 13:37:41 GMT -5
So I'm a big Jeph Loeb fan, but he can't plot at all. None of his stories... quite... work, in a logical/emotionally satisfying way.
However, he's a great collaborator. He writes to the strengths of his artists as well as any writer in mainstream comics, and that promises a series of cool visuals.
JMS is, in a lot of ways, a better writer but his stuff is overly serious and insanely decompressed, damn near unreadable in single issues. '
If given a choice of writers in superhero type comics, 99% of the time I'm gonna go with the guy/gal who seems to be having more fun, and that's Loeb.
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Post by The Cheat on May 4, 2019 14:49:16 GMT -5
JMS’ best work is Babylon 5, which deserved its multiple Hugo awards. His comic book work is less impressive, but Rising Stars was good, and One More Day was not his idea. Pretty much exactly what I was going to say. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 4, 2019 14:59:07 GMT -5
I'm not aware that I've ever read any of JMS's work. I pretty much only like Loeb's work when he's with Tim Sale and then it tends to be in spite of the the writing rather than because of it. Guy couldn't plot his way out of a wet paper bag.
So really I don't have an answer.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 15:08:54 GMT -5
When Loeb works with a quality collaborator, he can produce some decent stuff, but on his own his stuff can be terribly derivative (most of Heroes), or just downright bad (trying to revive the idea that Wolverine was a mutated animal and not a human), and his stewardship of Marvel animation has simply led to one bad cartoon after another failing to capture the things about the Marvel Heroes that connect to audiences worldwide in other television shows or movies (unlike his color series which makes me wonder how much of that connection came from Sale and not Loeb on those). If Loeb doesn't have someone above him to tell him no or to reign him in, his natural inclinations take over and he produces sh*tty material. Sale has the ability to temper a lot of his faults and help him get to the core of the characters they work on together, but even he can't fix the major plot problems in a lot of Loeb's stories.
JMS can be very imaginative and very good at world building and creating a cohesive story bible for a property or series, but his execution of individual stories can sometimes be lacking. He is a big picture guy and sometimes the pieces are more about building to the big picture than they are about telling a story that stands on its own. He also doesn't really play well in other people's sandboxes. He introduced a ton of elements into the Spider-Man mythos that were interesting, but to me seemed a poor fit for Spider-Man, and his takes on Doctor Strange in the Strange mini was perhaps the worst Doc Strange I have ever encountered (the Peter Hooten telefilm was a better take imo), but the stuff he creates wholecloth can be good to great (things like Babylon 5 and Midnight Nation being among his best, Rising Stars (which Heroes seemed to be very derivative of ) among the good but having some flaws keeping it from being great).
If I had to choose one or the other, I'd take Loeb only if he is working with Tim Sale and then only for the Sale art, or JMS if he is working on an original property and not on someone else's IP.
-M
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Post by badwolf on May 4, 2019 15:40:12 GMT -5
I'm not super-familiar with either author. I loved JMS' Thor and think it's sad that he was booted off the title prematurely.
Loeb's Batman stuff is ok. Hush was a good read at first, but didn't hold up on rereading.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on May 4, 2019 18:40:36 GMT -5
J. Michael Strazcinsky's run on ASM is one of my favourite runs of my favourite superhero. I'm in the minority in that I loved Sins Past, but his run ended in infamy with the Joe Quesada mandated clusterf**k that was One More Day. That pile of crap still leaves a really nasty taste in my mouth, but I don't blame JMS for that.
I loved The Twelve too. The delays while it was coming out were annoying, but as a finished piece of work it's a really great read.
I quite like Leob too, but definitely JMS gets my vote.
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Post by hondobrode on May 5, 2019 20:51:00 GMT -5
Jeph Loeb - Hush, the Long Halloween, Batman / The Spirit, Batman : Dark Victory, Batman : Ghosts, Batman Halloween specials, Cable, Captain America : White, Catwoman : When In Rome, Challengers of the Unknown, Daredevil : Yellow, Fallen Son : The Death of Captain America, Hulk, Hulk : Gray, Iron Man volume 2, Our Worlds at War, Loose Cannon, Onslaught Reborn, Spider-Man : Blue, Supergirl volume 4, Superman, Superman For All Seasons, Superman / Batman
There's other indie work he's written, mostly in conjunction with Rob Liefeld, that I'm barely familiar with and didn't included. Also excluded by me is his work credited but not listed here because he was co-plotter or scripter.
Highlights list for me include the Challengers of the Unknown, Our Worlds At War, Superman, and Superman / Batman
JMS - Amazing Spider-Man, Babylon 5, Before Watchmen : Dr Manhattan, Book of Lost Souls, Brave & the Bold volume 3, Bullet Points, Dream Police, Fantastic Four, Midnight Nation, Red Circle : The Hangman, Red Circle : The Inferno, Red Circle : The Shield, Red Circle : The Web, Rising Stars, Silver Surfer : Requiem, Squadron Supreme volume 2, Strange, Superman, Supreme Power, Thor
Highlights list for me include Amazing Spider-Man, Brave & the Bold, Bullet Points, the Red Circle titles, Rising Stars, Squadron Supreme
For me, it's not even close. Jeph Loeb isn't even in the same class as JMS. Loeb has more misses than hits for my tastes, and JMS is at the very least entertaining and very worthwhile.
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Post by hondobrode on May 5, 2019 22:02:56 GMT -5
J. Michael Strazcinsky's run on ASM is one of my favourite runs of my favourite superhero. I'm in the minority in that I loved Sins Past, but his run ended in infamy with the Joe Quesada mandated clusterf**k that was One More Day. That pile of crap still leaves a really nasty taste in my mouth, but I don't blame JMS for that. I loved The Twelve too. The delays while it was coming out were annoying, but as a finished piece of work it's a really great read. I quite like Leob too, but definitely JMS gets my vote.
I don't mind Sins Past but One More Day was horrible beyond words; both were forced upon him by editorial.
Yes delays have hurt some of JMS' works, but once done and collected, are worth the wait, like The Twelve.
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Post by brutalis on May 6, 2019 7:52:33 GMT -5
Neither writer does enough for me to going out of my way to buy their comics. Overall I have probably read more Loeb than JMS.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 6, 2019 16:21:28 GMT -5
J. Michael Strazcinsky's run on ASM is one of my favourite runs of my favourite superhero. I'm in the minority in that I loved Sins Past, but his run ended in infamy with the Joe Quesada mandated clusterf**k that was One More Day. That pile of crap still leaves a really nasty taste in my mouth, but I don't blame JMS for that. I loved The Twelve too. The delays while it was coming out were annoying, but as a finished piece of work it's a really great read. I quite like Leob too, but definitely JMS gets my vote. I don't mind Sins Past but One More Day was horrible beyond words; both were forced upon him by editorial. Yes delays have hurt some of JMS' works, but once done and collected, are worth the wait, like The Twelve.
Considering that One More Day was just a truly horrible idea - everyone was out of character, but more than that it was the wrong tone and wrong genre for Spider-Man) I thought it was scripted and executed surprisingly well. Still, overall, I thought JMS Spidey was (A) solidly above average, but (B) BY FAR the least interesting thing going on in the Spider-Man books at the time, which were just GREAT in the early-to-mid aughts. You had Paul Jenkins, Bendis and Bagely on Ultimate Spidey, the Tangled Web anthology book, PETER FREAKING BAGGE!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/color] Favorite JMS stories: 1) Thor 2) The first maybe 12 issues of Rising Stars 3) The Legion of Substitute Heroes/Inferior Five team-up in Brave and the Bold which I would have been excited for from any other writer but JMS has always leaned towards "Fanboy who takes superheroes SO SO SERIOUSLY", stylistically. But then it was actually kind of ... if not "funny" at least good natured. 4) Everything that isn't The Twelve 5) The Twelve (As a HUGE Golden Age Marvel guy it felt like JMS specifically tried to remove every cool aspect from every character, and then cram them into bad Watchmen fan-fiction. Le barf.) [/u][/font] |
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Post by hondobrode on May 7, 2019 23:14:48 GMT -5
I read the Bagge mini and liked it and a couple of issues of Jenkins' Spidey, and I really liked Web of, but it was JMS' Spidey that really was pushing my buttons like they hadn't since Stern was on the title.
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