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Post by Duragizer on Jul 10, 2019 13:55:28 GMT -5
I think I would've liked the Borg a little bit more if the creators had had a larger budget to make them more alien, at least in their first few appearances. They're creepy and unsettling, yes, but still too humanoid for a species which hails from a distant part of the galaxy and has (presumably) assimilated a number of unknown races into their collective.
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Post by badwolf on Jul 10, 2019 16:02:22 GMT -5
So, who would win if the Borg took on the Cybermen? The Borg--they have a much bigger budget.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 16:12:32 GMT -5
Okay, could the Borg assimilate Galactus?
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 10, 2019 17:37:38 GMT -5
I think I would've liked the Borg a little bit more if the creators had had a larger budget to make them more alien, at least in their first few appearances. They're creepy and unsettling, yes, but still too humanoid for a species which hails from a distant part of the galaxy and has (presumably) assimilated a number of unknown races into their collective. For my part, I thought it was a case of less is more. I preferred the almost mundane look of the Borg in the TV series (pasty skinned with assorted and ill-fitting implants) to the more elaborate, zombie-like ones from the movie. The threat posed by the Borg is in their collective, and the fact that individually they were so unimpressive (and even squarely dispensable!) made them much scarier, because regular humans wouldn’t really know how to fight them. We’re used to fight enemies who may fight as a team, but not ones who have no chain of command, no sense of self-preservation, no loyalty to each other and who can be massacred wholesale without making a dent in their collective. They were like the ultimate soviet state, in which individuality would have been totally subdued. I agree with you that it’s not very probable to have so many alien species all be humanoid... but that’s been a staple of the Trek universe, so the Borg being humanoid was sort of par for course. (The Posbis, the inspiration for the Borg in the old German Perry Rhodan series, were not humanoid... their biological parts were mostly protoplasm.)
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 10, 2019 18:31:04 GMT -5
I agree with you that it’s not very probable to have so many alien species all be humanoid... but that’s been a staple of the Trek universe, so the Borg being humanoid was sort of par for course. That's always been a pet peeve of mine about older Trek. I know one has to take shortcuts with budgetary/SFX limitations in play, but the ubiquitousness of near-human aliens left the Trek universe feeling mundane much of the time. Those strange new worlds and civilizations don't seem all that strange or new when they're much the same and much like us.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 10, 2019 19:41:46 GMT -5
I agree with you that it’s not very probable to have so many alien species all be humanoid... but that’s been a staple of the Trek universe, so the Borg being humanoid was sort of par for course. That's always been a pet peeve of mine about older Trek. I know one has to take shortcuts with budgetary/SFX limitations in play, but the ubiquitousness of near-human aliens left the Trek universe feeling mundane much of the time. Those strange new worlds and civilizations don't seem all that strange or new when they're much the same and much like us. One thing I really like in hindsight when it comes to budget limitations is how in TOS they couldn’t readily show alien ships being blown to pieces by a photon torpedo, and all we saw was an empty star field with a sudden flash of light in it. Considering these ships are probably hundreds of kilometers apart, that is probably closer to what one would see in real life than the elaborate WWII-style dogfight that modern SFX has given us since Star Wars! Fully agreed on how the strange new worlds and new civilizations don’t look particularly strange nor especially new... Most of them look like a parking lot in California! It’s a rare thing indeed when a science-fiction show (or novel, for that matter) loves up to the potential of the genre when it comes to true alienness.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 10, 2019 20:32:53 GMT -5
I agree with you that it’s not very probable to have so many alien species all be humanoid... but that’s been a staple of the Trek universe, so the Borg being humanoid was sort of par for course. That's always been a pet peeve of mine about older Trek. I know one has to take shortcuts with budgetary/SFX limitations in play, but the ubiquitousness of near-human aliens left the Trek universe feeling mundane much of the time. Those strange new worlds and civilizations don't seem all that strange or new when they're much the same and much like us. Honestly, until Star Wars, and certainly Alien, I can't think of any believable movie/TV alien that seemed all that conceptually realistic. I do agree with your premise, though. At some point I hope the majority of sci-fi creators and readers get over our natural inclination to anthropomorphize...everything. Hell, many viewers loose touch if a human character wears a mask too frequently.
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Post by badwolf on Jul 13, 2019 9:46:29 GMT -5
I agree with you that it’s not very probable to have so many alien species all be humanoid... but that’s been a staple of the Trek universe, so the Borg being humanoid was sort of par for course. That's always been a pet peeve of mine about older Trek. I know one has to take shortcuts with budgetary/SFX limitations in play, but the ubiquitousness of near-human aliens left the Trek universe feeling mundane much of the time. Those strange new worlds and civilizations don't seem all that strange or new when they're much the same and much like us. Yeah, my pet peeve was not that they were all humanoid, but that they were basically human except for some small detail like they had ridges on their noses, or funny ears or something.
But I think this was explained in a TNG episode that they all came from the same "seed" that was scattered throughout the universe.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2019 12:54:30 GMT -5
We really need to start asking why the likes of Picard and Doctor Who, no matter where/when in space/time they are, always encounter aliens who can speak English!
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Post by rberman on Jul 14, 2019 7:49:16 GMT -5
We really need to start asking why the likes of Picard and Doctor Who, no matter where/when in space/time they are, always encounter aliens who can speak English! In Doctor Who, the TARDIS translates telepathically between the Doctor, his companions, and those whom they encounter. Similarly Star Trek has the universal translator. Except for that one goofy scene in Star Trek VI.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 14, 2019 8:17:46 GMT -5
That's always been a pet peeve of mine about older Trek. I know one has to take shortcuts with budgetary/SFX limitations in play, but the ubiquitousness of near-human aliens left the Trek universe feeling mundane much of the time. Those strange new worlds and civilizations don't seem all that strange or new when they're much the same and much like us. Honestly, until Star Wars, and certainly Alien, I can't think of any believable movie/TV alien that seemed all that conceptually realistic. I do agree with your premise, though. At some point I hope the majority of sci-fi creators and readers get over our natural inclination to anthropomorphize...everything. Hell, many viewers loose touch if a human character wears a mask too frequently. But since we as a species have yet to encounter an alien species (save third encounter testimonies) what would be know about what is alien? We are limited by our limited understanding of the universe. An alien could be a lot like us or something we can’t even begin to imagine at this understanding we have now of things.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 18, 2019 16:23:51 GMT -5
At the end of the day, Star Trek dropped the ball with the Borg by missing out on a clear, no-brainer connection: That's right. I know I'm on an island with this, but when the Federation finally infiltrated the Borg cube, that man should have been at the center of it all.
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Post by berkley on Jul 18, 2019 20:36:48 GMT -5
That's always been a pet peeve of mine about older Trek. I know one has to take shortcuts with budgetary/SFX limitations in play, but the ubiquitousness of near-human aliens left the Trek universe feeling mundane much of the time. Those strange new worlds and civilizations don't seem all that strange or new when they're much the same and much like us. One thing I really like in hindsight when it comes to budget limitations is how in TOS they couldn’t readily show alien ships being blown to pieces by a photon torpedo, and all we saw was an empty star field with a sudden flash of light in it. Considering these ships are probably hundreds of kilometers apart, that is probably closer to what one would see in real life than the elaborate WWII-style dogfight that modern SFX has given us since Star Wars! Fully agreed on how the strange new worlds and new civilizations don’t look particularly strange nor especially new... Most of them look like a parking lot in California! It’s a rare thing indeed when a science-fiction show (or novel, for that matter) loves up to the potential of the genre when it comes to true alienness. Remember the time they showed Toronto's City hall in some kind of montage that was meant to be flashes or glimpses of the far future or alien planets or something? Forget the episode but we always got a kick out of that when we were kids. The thing is, it actually did look pretty futuristic, even knowing what it was, so it didn't spoil the effect for me.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 19, 2019 4:56:26 GMT -5
One thing I really like in hindsight when it comes to budget limitations is how in TOS they couldn’t readily show alien ships being blown to pieces by a photon torpedo, and all we saw was an empty star field with a sudden flash of light in it. Considering these ships are probably hundreds of kilometers apart, that is probably closer to what one would see in real life than the elaborate WWII-style dogfight that modern SFX has given us since Star Wars! Fully agreed on how the strange new worlds and new civilizations don’t look particularly strange nor especially new... Most of them look like a parking lot in California! It’s a rare thing indeed when a science-fiction show (or novel, for that matter) loves up to the potential of the genre when it comes to true alienness. Remember the time they showed Toronto's City hall in some kind of montage that was meant to be flashes or glimpses of the far future or alien planets or something? Forget the episode but we always got a kick out of that when we were kids. The thing is, it actually did look pretty futuristic, even knowing what it was, so it didn't spoil the effect for me. It looks great! I wouldn’t have recognized Toronto, not being familiar with the city... but I did recognize the Expo 1967 site in an episode of Battlestar Galactica! Canada, land of the future (or of the inexpensive shooting sites)!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2019 10:27:03 GMT -5
I do enjoy all incarnations of Star Trek and the Borg is my least favorite storylines and I have a hard time following it at all and sorry that I say this.
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