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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 5, 2021 23:58:13 GMT -5
AEW did a great job with the tribute to Huber/Brodie...very impressed they were willing to totally put their plans on hold for that. I've tried a few times recent to watch some WWE, and it just doesn't interest me right now.... seems like they're living in the past.. with guys like Lashey, MVP, John Morrison even Drew McIntyre high on the card. The matches also simply aren't as exciting... I guess I'm a spot monkey guy
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2021 1:15:25 GMT -5
I remember when Drew was a jobber with 3 Man Band along with Heath Slater and Jinder Mahal. He left, came back, totally rebranded himself and climbed to the top of the card.
He was one of the few things I liked about RAW.
Jinder Mahal was still a clown the last time I saw him...he got a push when he 'beat' Randy Orton for the belt but he's never impressed since.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 15, 2021 9:52:32 GMT -5
Heh, yeah. It seems like they turned him into Sheamus' character, but it worked since he's not a twit. He just doesn't do it for me. Right now, Jericho is still my favorite guy to watch, followed closely by MJF (who will be this generation's greatest heel, if he isn't already). I'm also a big fan of Adam Page.
I was really digging Finn Balor before he got hurt, but he seems to be kinda stuck right now.... last time I saw him I was disappointed. I like me some Sammy Zayn too, when he's not hurt... but I feel like he doesn't work as well in the WWE style.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 6, 2021 0:11:47 GMT -5
RIP to "Hacksaw" Butch Reed, aka "The Natural" Butch Reed. Born Bruce Franklin Reed, Reed broke into wrestling in Kansas City, after a stint in the NFL, with the KC Chiefs, after training with Ronnie Etchison. He wrestled in the Kansas City area, then eventually moved onto Florida and Georgia, while also making appearances in St Louis. I first saw him around 1983, on World Championship Wrestling, when it was still the Georgia promotion, as he was a babyface, battling Masked Superstar and Super Destroyer, and got a title shot against Ric Flair, for the NWA World Hwt Championship. Reed was a big, muscular, athletic guy and could both mat wrestle or brawl, which made him effective as either babyface or heel. After Georgia, he went to Oklahoma to work for Bill Watts' Mid-South promotion, where he had a "Battle of the Hacksaws," against the then-heel "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan. He then turned heel on partner The Junkyard Dog (the top babyface in the promotion) and helped to draw big houses in the territory. He also teamed with Jim Neidhart, before he went off to the WWF, to team with brother-in-law Bret Hart. Reed had a brief stint in the AWA, then went back to working for Kansas City. He would take periodic breaks from wrestling to participate in the rodeo circuit, where he did quite well, but which also kept him from being pushed strongly in territories, despite getting over well with crowds. While working this stint in KC, he ended up with heel manager Slick and both went off to New York to joint the WWF. Reed was presented with bleached blond hair, calling himself "The Natural" Butch Reed, but was never pushed as strongly there as in the NWA territories. The WWF never really seemed to realize what they had, though Reed was also a pretty independent guy and not a political player. After a couple of years, he left the WWF behind and went to work for Jim Crockett and the NWA, on TBS. After a period using his own name, he turned up as half of the least mysterious masked tag-team in wrestling (after The Machines), Doom, with Ron Simmons. Crockett had done an angle where the goofy member of the Steiner Brothers, Rick, had a groupie, a cute young woman, named Robin Green. She would cheer for him at ringside, sporting large glasses, hats and dressed like a stereotypical nerd (though obviously attractive). Eventually, Rick Steiner was to go out on a date with her and when he went to pick her up (with a camera crew following him, of course), he was met by a stunningly beautiful woman. Then, he was ambushed by two large, muscular black men, in black masks. Robin Green appeared as their manager, calling herself Woman and the team was Doom. As soon as a camera got a close up and the men spoke, it was obvious they were Ron Simmons and Butch Reed. Robin Green/Woman, was actually Nancy Sullivan, then-wife of Kevin Sullivan and had been his valet, The Fallen Angel, in Florida (but hadn't appeared with him in Crockett's promotion). Nancy later divorced Sullivan while falling for Chris Benoit, eventually ending in tragedy as Benoit murdered Nancy, then their son, and then hung himself. Doom later switched to Teddy Long as their manager and lost a feud in which they were unmasked and Reed moved on, while Simmons worked as a solo and was switched babyface, eventually pushed to becoming World Champion, by Bill Watts. Reed bounced around between the smaller remaining promotions, like the USWA (Memphis) and Global Wrestling Federation (Dallas, with tv on ESPN), while continuing to compete in rodeo. His appearances became more sporadic, by the 2000s and he was semi-retired, before working for Harley race's World League Wrestling. His last match was in 2011. Reed passed away from heart complications. Here's Reed in 1983, in Georgia, against former WWWF Champion Ivan Koloff (the man who beat Bruno), showing his versatility, with power moves, brawling and highspots (he could hit a good dropkick for as big as he was). As Doom, with Ron Simmons, against the Steiners. Butch starts the match, for Doom. By the way, Woman's bodyguard, Nitron, is Tyler Mayne, who played Sabretooth in the X-Men films (also wrestled as Big Sky). I had forgotten about Rick's gimmick of wearing his title belt backwards! With slick, in the WWF.. Slick started out in Texas All-Star Wrestling, before coming to KC, as the Doctor of Style, managing a stable of heels against Rufus R "Freight Train" Jones, who was actually Slick's adoptive father.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 25, 2021 12:25:21 GMT -5
Very sad to report the passing of Joseph Hudson, better known to NWA Power fans as Jocephus and masked wrestler The Question Mark...... Hudson had worked the independent scene, doing a Bruiser Brody gimmick, which then turned into a cult leader thing. For a time he was accompanied to the ring by a bald woman, known as his Spiritual Advisor. He worked for Billy Corgan's earlier Revolution Pro Wrestling, where they established their relationship, and when Corgan bought the NWA name and trademarks, he quickly brought Jocephus into the mix. He was slotted in as an opponent for Tim Storm and the pair worked a feud for Number One Contender status for Nick Aldiss' World title, which culminated in an empty arena match, broadcast via Impact Wrestling (this was before the NWA Power show, on Youtube, when they partnered with other promotions, like Ring of Honor). He got two shots at the NWA title, but lost and then lost a hair match against Storm. When NWA Powerrr debuted, he appeared as Jocephus, a heel, who blinds Colt Cabana with medicated powder, then interrupts a James Storm segment, which led to a brawl over the studio where he got beaten down. he then reappeared as a masked wrestler, The Question Mark, from the fictional country of Mongrovia, where he was a master of Mongrovian KA-RAH-TAY! The studio crowd took to him immediately and a decision was made to feature Hudson more as the Question Mark and he became one of the most popular elements of the show. He was paired up with Aron Stevens and the crowd would mercilessly boo Stevens, by rabidly cheer Question Mark. They made for a great comedy duo. Hudson also reappeared as Jocephus, after his "suspension" was over, as part of the NWA TV title tournament. He was also one of the behind-the-scenes producers of Powerrr and involved on the creative side. He also portrayed young Bruiser Brody on Vice TV's Dark Side of the Ring, in recreations of Brody's history and murder, at the hands of Jose "Invader 1" Gonzales, in Puerto Rico. Hudson apparently died of either a stroke or aneurism, leaving behind a wife and young son. The debut of The Question Mark... Singing the Mongrovian national anthem...
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 9, 2021 1:59:38 GMT -5
Just watched the first three episodes of Young rock, featuring Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson's childhood and teen years. Um....yeah......
Let me say this, the show is entertaining enough, though I think the younger years,, set in 1982, are far more engaging than the teen stuff or his time in college. However, don't expect real pro wrestling history in this as this is even more a fantasy version of things than GLOW or the movie version of Fighting With My Family (which took its cues from the documentary and is pretty accurate, apart from some of the training stuff and Paige's WWE timeline). This is not how wrestling was in 1982.
On the plus side, the actor who portrays Rocky Johnson, Joseph Lee Anderson, looks the part (more or less, though more Carl Weathers than the real Rocky Johnson, which they even make a joke about, in the pilot episode) Stacey Leilua is great as Johnson's mother, Ata, and Ana Tuisila is fantastic as his grandmother, Lia Maivia. Maua Fuifui, who portrays grandfather Peter Maivia in flashbacks and home movies is the spitting image of the real High Chief. The rest? well.......
The third episode features Lia putting together a big show , in Hawaii, with Rocky as one of the big draws and the family are staying in a nice hotel, contrasting with the cheap motel seen in episode 1. Rocky is supposed to be wrestling for the WWF. Also booked on the card are Andre the Giant, Iron Sheik, the Wild Samoans (Afa & Sika), King Kong Bundy, Junkyard Dog, and Randy "Macho Man" Savage. Un huh......
I know they were picked for being recognizable names from the 80s WWF; but, not in 1982. First off, they make it sound like the WWF was a national promotion, which it wasn't in 1982. It was just a regional territory, like all of the rest, covering the northeast, especially New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Washington DC and a few other key cities, with monthly shows at Madison Square Garden. it was a big money territory, thanks to the population in those cities; but, most wrestlers only came through the loop, for about 3-6 months, then went to other territories. It was run by Vincent James McMahon, aka Vince Sr. Vincent Kennedy McMahon, aka Vince Jr, was just an announcer and dd some behind-the-scenes work; but, Sr ran the show, along with partners Gorilla Monsoon and Arnold Skaaland. Vince Sr didn't sell (repeat sell, not give) the business to his son until 1982. Jr didn't really start expanding until 1984 (well, late 1983 into 1984). In the episode, he talks to Lia Maivia about having to pull wrestlers because his father booked MSG on the same date as her big show, but promises to keep the Samoans and Rocky at her disposal, since they are big draws. How altruistic.
In 1982, the WWF was a part of the National Wrestling Alliance and had been since they rejoined in 1971, after splitting from the organization in 1963. That is why the WWF champion was called that and not the WWF World Champion. Only the NWA title could be called a "world" title, by member promotions. Talent from all over would be booked for MSG shows and short hops through the territory. In 1982, that included the Wild Samoans, Afa & Sika, who had been wrestling in Mid-South, for Bill watts and would then go to Georgia, after their 3-month stint in the WWF. They would return the following year and win the WWF tag titles. Rocky Johnson would work there late in 1982, into 1983, forming a tag team with Tony Atlas, who won the tag titles, becoming the first African-American (and Canadian, as Rocky Johnsons was from Nova Scotia) WWF tag champions. Andre the Giant was booked by Vince Sr and worked major shows for Vince, but spent most of his time touring other NWA promotions, as a featured attraction, plus regular trips to wrestle for Antonio Inoki's New Japan promotion. Iron Sheik was wrestling in Florida and Georgia, would soon go to Mid-South and then back to Georgia, before going to the WWF, in late 1983, where he defeated Bob Backlund for the WWF title, then dropped it to Hulk Hogan, in January 1984, launching Hulkamania and the WWF expansion.
Junkyard Dog was the top draw in Mid-South, drawing massive crowds to their shows at the Super Dome, refuting Vince Jr's claims that wrestling was in small, smoke-filled arenas before he came along. Watts promoted multiple shows at the Super Dome, drawing big crowds until JYD screwed him over and walked out of the territory to work for Vince, in 1984. King Kong Bundy was still at the early stages of his career, working in World Class, where he was originally called Big Daddy Bundy, patterning him after British wrestler Shirley "Big Daddy" Crabtree. he then turned heel and was rechristened King Kong Bundy. From there, he would work for Bill Watts, then go to Georgia, then the WWF, in 1985. se a pattern here?
Randy Savage is the biggest fantasy of the bunch. It is theoretically possible that these guys could have been booked for a show in Hawaii, while going to or coming back from Japan, as that was the usual pattern for guest wrestlers in the Hawaii promotions. Hawaii ran monthly shows, not a weekly circuit, like other territories. The big draws were on Oahu, though they did do some shows on the other islands. There was a local crew of wrestlers and then stars from other territories, who usually sent in taped interviews to build for the big shows. In 1982, Randy Savage was not going to Japan for tours. Aside for working the Maritimes, in Canada, in the late 70s and a couple of tours in Puerto Rico, in 1984, Randy Savage wouldn't wrestle outside the continental US until he worked for the WWF, doing their combined shows with the SWS promotion. In 1982, Randy was wrestling and booking the family's International Championship Wrestling outlaw promotion, based in Lexington, KY. They were running in opposition to Jerry Jarret's Memphis promotion, putting on shows in Charleston, WV, Knoxville, TN, Lexington, KY, and other parts of Kentucky Tennessee, southern Indiana, Illinois (including my area, with shows in Decatur and Springfield) and Southern Missouri. The Poffos were on the outs with every NWA promoter for running opposition to a recognized promoter (which is ironic as Jarret had been opposition to the established NWA Tennessee promoter, Nick Gulas, but that was a split of the territory, as Jarret was running the Memphis end, while Gulas ran the Nashville and Chattanooga end and tried to stiff Jarret on promises of partnership. The NWA backed Jarret, though he was never officially a member). The Poffos ran ICW until 1984, when they made a deal with Jarrett to do an invasion angle with Memphis and featured Memphis matches on their tv, until they sold what there was of the promotion, and their title, to Paul Christy. Randy then worked Memphis until 1985, when he came into the WWF, thanks to Jimmy Hart. Randy wasn't a big name until that point. he had wrestled in Knoxville and for Gulas, in Tennessee, as well as Georgia and his father booked him and Lanny on top, in the Maritimes, for Emil Dupree, which led to the ICW promotion, as it was a way to feature the sons on top. Randy was getting some attention in 1984, as he was booked in a tag-team tournament in Georgia, with Magnum TA as his partner, while working for Jarrett. he got big attention in the magazines, while in Memphis and was a big draw at the Mid-South Colosseum, wrestling Jerry Lawler, Austin Idol, and the Rock n Roll Express (teaming with Lanny).
Lia Maivia was running the Hawaii promotion, after the death of Peter Maivia, in 1982. Prior to that, Hawaii had been promoted by Ed Francis, father of NFL player Russ Francis, from 1961-1979, which were the glory years. Francis sold the promotion to New Zealand promoter Steve Rickard in 1979 and he ran it, with the Maivias, then sold the rights to them, in 1980. They continued to promote until Peter's death, then Lia promoted it, with Ripper Collins and Lars Anderson, until 1988. In the end, Hawii's business was way down, as the real thing that hurt them was cable tv, which brought the bigger promotions (WWF and Crockett NWA) to the island, with better rpoduction values than Polynesian Pacific. They did have a cable deal with the Financial News Network, who ran nighttime programming under the SCORE name. While I was in Hawaii for my first midshipman training cruise, in July of 1985, they were promoting a big show, at Pearl Harbor, that included Ric Flair defending the NWA title. They promoted another big card, in 1986, with New Japan, but it didn't draw as well and that was about it for the promotion, other than smaller shows. Opposition came along in 1987/88 and Lia Maivia and her partners were brought up on racketeering and extortion charges, with claims they threatened the rivals. they were acquitted, but there was talk of witness tampering. Somehow, I doubt the show will go much into that, anymore than Rocky's philandering, with his family in the same motel as his girlfriend, while in the WWF, or Rock's 2 surgeries for gynecomastia, a side effect of steroid use.
Anyway, most of those wrestlers wouldn't be there, more than likely, except Rocky and Afa & Sika, and maybe Andre.
By the way, the guy they have portraying Ric Flair looks like he is about 210, at most and Flair was never smaller than about 245. When he started in wrestling, he weighed over 300 lbs, as he had been training for power lifting, when he joined Verne Gagne's training camp. Also, the guy who is supposed to be Roddy Piper is more muscular than he ever was, apart from his run as Intercontinental Champion, against Bret Hart & Jacques Rougeau, when he was on steroids, for the only time in his career.
The Greg Yao character, played by Ronny Chieng, is likely based on John R "Dunbar" Wakayama, a former announcer for Maivia, who tried to start a rival promotion with mainland wrestlers. Maivia, Lars Anderson and Ati So'o, the third partner in the business, were charged with making threatening phone calls to Wakayama to extort $5,000 from him. Their defense was they had met with him (when he was wired, after approaching the FBI about telephone threats) to pay $1800, an installment on the 5,000, which they claimed were "booking fees." The jury acquitted the defendants because they believe So'o was not the voice on the taped phone conversation making threats. No one seemed to question the "booking fees" as a payoff. By this point, Polynesian Pacific were barely running shows, with a mostly local crew of Anderson, Siva Afi, Superfly Tui and Farmer Ipo, Leroy Brown and a few others, mostly Samoans.
Afa and Sika are played by John Tui and Fasitua Amosa, both from New Zealand (Tui is of Tongan descent and Amosa is Samoan). They look the part, though they appear smaller than Afa and Sika.
Filming was done in Australia, due to Covid, and shot in Queensland, apart from Johnson's parts, shot in Atlanta.
There is a section in the third episode with Andre showing Rocky Johnson a new doll of himself. The first WWF dolls didn't appear until 1984, from LJN and they did not have the arm action shown in the film. There were no wrestling dolls in America in 1982. There may have been Tiger Mask figures in Japan (possibly others) at that time (Tiger Mask was becoming a phenomena and there had already been a Tiger Mask cartoon, as well as the original manga) and Mexico, where there was all kinds of lucha merch, including figurines. American merchandise was mostly t-shirts and signed photos, buttons, and a few similar things.
Leaving that aside, the stuff in 1982 is entertaining enough and Adrian Groulx is quite engaging as the 10 year-old Dwayne. Not as wowed by the 15 year-old Dwayne, Bradly Constant, though that is more the writing for those segments. It feels a bit too much like a bad knock off of a John Hughes movie.
The period could be any time and never really looks like the 80s, apart from a few cars and some specific clothes. otherwise, hairstyles are often wrong for the period and some things are peppered to be 80s, but not others. 80s music was sprinkled throughout.
the 1987 part is supposed to be Bethlehem, PA, after moving from Nashville. Rocky Johnson was wrestling for Memphis and Florida, in 1987; but, Rock did attend high school in Nashville and finished up in Bethlehem. In the show, it is stated they moved there from Nashville, after Rocky was no longer working for the WWF, implying that he had been, while they lived in Nashville. He left the WWF in 1984, though he did some shows for them in 1985.
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Post by Calidore on Mar 11, 2021 19:50:23 GMT -5
R.I.P. to former NWA president Jim Crockett, Jr. 1980s NWA is still my main wrestling fandom.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 12, 2021 8:38:21 GMT -5
Would have been nice if they had a wrestling fan help with the details, but that's not really the point of the show, so I'm not surprised.
Not sure about AEW adding Christian... seems like they have too many guys already. MJF with a Horseman-like stable should be pretty awesome though. I wonder if they're going to turn Jericho face? Been a while for him, so that could be interesting.
Heel Kenny Omega is definitely working, since I can't wait for him to get his comuppance and lose, he's doing his job. I REALLY want it to be my boy Hangman Page that does the deed. They're doing a slow build, but having him be the lead of a face Dark Order would be pretty unique.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 12, 2021 22:53:22 GMT -5
Would have been nice if they had a wrestling fan help with the details, but that's not really the point of the show, so I'm not surprised. Not sure about AEW adding Christian... seems like they have too many guys already. MJF with a Horseman-like stable should be pretty awesome though. I wonder if they're going to turn Jericho face? Been a while for him, so that could be interesting. Heel Kenny Omega is definitely working, since I can't wait for him to get his comuppance and lose, he's doing his job. I REALLY want it to be my boy Hangman Page that does the deed. They're doing a slow build, but having him be the lead of a face Dark Order would be pretty unique. I really don't know what Christian adds, beyond an ex-WWE name. He was always overshadowed by Edge, going back to their Canadian indie days. Edge was the better all-around worker and Christian could rise to the occasion; but, he never seemed to stand out on his own. I'm still not watching this stuff, as I just can't get into the style of wrestling they present. For someone weened on late 70s and 80s territorial wrestling, as well as Japan, Stampede and Puerto Rico, it just looks too choregraphed (and not by a Broadway choreographer, either) and makes lucha look more spontaneous and psychologically oriented. The NWA, for that brief spark, was giving me what I missed from wrestling, though some of the wrestlers were a little too spot-happy and lacking in psychology. The women, apart from Thunder Rosa, really weren't that polished. Most of them seemed to do the same run at the opponent in the corner spots (lot of the guys, too). That said, they had some of the best promo people out there, for a brief shining moment. They are coming back on Fite, but I think their window of opportunity has slammed shut, thanks to COVID. AEW has talent there; but, they really need a unified booking philosophy there. Good or bad, you know the WWE is Vince. In the Crockett days, you knew the NWA (well, that portion of it) was Dusty. Florida was Eddie Graham's vision, Mid-South was Bill Watts, Texas, at its height, was Gary Hart, Memphis was Jerry Jarrett (when it was good, Lawler when it was bad) and so on.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 12, 2021 23:08:56 GMT -5
R.I.P. to former NWA president Jim Crockett, Jr. 1980s NWA is still my main wrestling fandom. Yeah, heard about that. Crockett inherited the business, but didn't run it until John Ringley (husband of Frances Crockett) got caught in an affair and booted out of the family. Jr was a good businessman and never pretended he knew how to book the wrestling and hired good people to do it. He was content, for a long time, to run what they had, which was one of the biggest money territories in the country; but, went ga-ga with the expansion and cash outlay. Crockett wrestling, both Mid-Atlantic and WTBS was my prime viewing. Apart from the Bulldogs and Hart Foundation, I could not watch WWF, until Savage and Ricky Steamboat were lighting things up. Even then, that would be one light in a sea of cartoony dreck. Even when Sr was running things, those MSG cards were so boring, apart from a few performers. I first saw them in 1982 and lucked into catching Tiger Mask, who was sensational, especially after you watched guys like Swede Hanson, Tony Garea, Pedro Morales, Don Muraco, Mr Fuji and Mr Saito, Chief Jay Strongbow and the like. Pdero could go; but really wasn't, by that point, and Muraco was lazy, if he wasn't in with Baclund or Snuka. Backlund was great in-ring, but not much of a promo and snuka was great, before he was coked to the gills. Still, at least the presentation was relatively realistic, if slow and mostly punch-kick-slam. When I first caught clips from Mid-Atlantic (on the Sunday Best of World Championship wrestling, on WTBS), it was Flair, Piper, Valentine, Steamboat, Youngblood, Slater, Orton, Mulligan, Wahoo, the Briscos, Sgt Slaughter and Don Kernodle.....really great workers. By the time they were on TBS, you had added some of the Florida guys (Windham, Luger, Dusty, Sullivan, Rotundo, Magnum TA), some of the Georgia crew (Road Warriors, Garvin), Tully Blanchard, the Rock N Roll Express & the Midnight Express and Cornette and JJ Dillon.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 13, 2021 1:54:07 GMT -5
The booking is all over the place, for sure. They have talent in the women's division, but don't seem to know how to use it (Thunder Rosa seems to be a permanent part of the roster now, btw).
It definitely feels like the main players are all booking their own stuff, and the rest is just filling in the gaps, Good matches, though, if you like the modern indy style (and I do). Sounds like you don't so probably still not going to do much for you.
I find Adam Page and MJF totally worth watching though, and Jericho still has some great moments on the mic. Matt Hardy's got an interesting character going now, too.. he's playing a sleezy agent 'mentoring' others, which is pretty fun. Not at all what he started with coming in, when he was playing 'Broken' Matt Hardy, and even switching roles regularly.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 13, 2021 18:53:15 GMT -5
The booking is all over the place, for sure. They have talent in the women's division, but don't seem to know how to use it (Thunder Rosa seems to be a permanent part of the roster now, btw). It definitely feels like the main players are all booking their own stuff, and the rest is just filling in the gaps, Good matches, though, if you like the modern indy style (and I do). Sounds like you don't so probably still not going to do much for you. I find Adam Page and MJF totally worth watching though, and Jericho still has some great moments on the mic. Matt Hardy's got an interesting character going now, too.. he's playing a sleezy agent 'mentoring' others, which is pretty fun. Not at all what he started with coming in, when he was playing 'Broken' Matt Hardy, and even switching roles regularly. For the most part. no, I'm not big on indie wrestling, though it depends on who is involved. Christopher Daniels is probably the most talented guy in AEW, but never totally got his shot at things, aside from some X-Division focus in TNA. I watched a bit of AEW, when they started up. The guys who worked the WWE were way more polished, in terms of overall work, but some of the young guys could do some great spots. The problem is, like a lot of guys who haven't worked as many dates as the big promotion wrestlers, they haven't learned when to do their spots and how to build a match. Tiger Mask vs Dynamite Kid was called sloppy and spot-happy, back in the early 80s (or less insider words to that effect); but, they had a reason for their spots. Thunder Rosa is probably the best female wrestler I have seen in a long time, in terms of making her stuff look solid and like it has an impact. A lot of women and a lot of young guys are too focused on doing some spectacular spot that their stuff looks like it barely touches their opponent. Rosa has the right kind of body language an intensity that makes it look like it hurts (depending on the selling of the opponent. From what I understand, Cody books his stuff, Jericho books his, Omega books the undercard singles and the Young Bucks book the tag-team stuff. Not sure about the women, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was Omega. I give them points for bringing in guys like Tully, Arn and Jake Roberts to add some veteran experience to the thing. Question is, when they offer advice, do they listen? MJF I have heard Cornette praise as one of the best heels in the business, though I didn't catch any of his work. I watched Cody's matches with Nick Aldiss, over the NWA title, before the AEW launch and if they ever cross-promoted, could do some good business with another series. From what I've heard, AEW is open to co-promotion; so, who knows?
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 13, 2021 20:57:18 GMT -5
They definitely co promote with Impact, and they've had other Indy guys poke around for single matches, and they're not shy about mentioning IGWP or AAA.
MJF is amazing on the mic, but he's not great in the ring, but perhaps he's the style you like.. it's pretty old school. I hear you about telling a story... it's often spot-spot-spot-spot end... but I find that more entertaining than the 5 minute rest holds of the 80s myself.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 14, 2021 20:37:10 GMT -5
They definitely co promote with Impact, and they've had other Indy guys poke around for single matches, and they're not shy about mentioning IGWP or AAA. MJF is amazing on the mic, but he's not great in the ring, but perhaps he's the style you like.. it's pretty old school. I hear you about telling a story... it's often spot-spot-spot-spot end... but I find that more entertaining than the 5 minute rest holds of the 80s myself. See, I like seeing it presented in a relatively realistic fashion. First pro wrestling I ever saw was the WWA, which was the Indianapolis promotion, run by Dick the Bruiser and Wilbur Snyder. It wasn't a big money territory (except Chicago, which they co-promoted with Verne Gagne, with a mix in WWA and AWA guys), and I saw it after Bobby Heenan had gone off to Minnesota. A lot of guys there were either old timers running out the clock, lesser guys who never worked on top, or smaller guys. You had guys like "Golden Boy" Paul Christy, Bruiser, Snyder, Gentleman Jerry Valliant (also the Masked Strangler), Dr Jerry Graham Jr, Spike Huber and Steve Regal (the Mr Electric guy, not the British future-William regal), Roger Kirby and Sheik Ali Hassan (Jack krueger, who later worked as a ref for the WWF). They were mat oriented and brawling and were kind of slow paced. The best stuff from the WWA was the Heenan years, in the 60s and early 70s. We then got the Poffo Family ICW show, which was a mix of fast action, mat wrestling and brawling, depending on who was in the match. Randy Savage was top heel and was fast and intense and not as roided up as he would become, moving like a cat in the ring. brother Lanny was top babyface in principle, though not in fact. he mostly did tag-team, with George Weingeroff, who had been a top colelgiate wrestler and was a second generation wrestler, also (his father was Gentleman Saul Weingeroff, who was a wrestler and manager, in the South). Lany did the acrobatic stuff and Weigeroff was smooth as silk on the mat, doing some fantastic hold transitions. He used to do a spot where his opponent would shoot him into the ropes and do a dropdown and Weingeroff would step over him, hook the guys' armpits with his feet and twist down to the mat, turning the guy onto his shoulders for a nearfall. He was also legally blind and his eyes couldn't focus on the camera, which was a bit unnerving (since surgically corrected, I understand). Ronnie Garvin was the real top heel, working a mix of mat wrestling and brawling. He and Savage had great physical battles and he and Pez Whatley (another top collegiate wrestler) would put on a mat wrestling masterclass, with chain wrestling, pin reversals and the like, plus wild brawls. That's what hooked me on pro wrestling, far more than the WWA. That was followed by cable and Georgia Championship Wrestling, which also had match clips from Mid-Atlantic, Florida, Mid-South and the AWA. So, yeah, I'm partial to mat wrestling, with high spots thrown in to up the tempo as the match goes on. I also have years of watching the great tag-teams, liek the Rock N Roll Express, Midnight Express, Fabulous Ones, Fantastics, the Sheepherders (before they were turned into cartoons, as the Bushwackers), the British Bulldogs, the Hart Foundation, Steiner Bros. Road Warriors, Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard, Chris Adams & Gino Hernandez, The Nightmares, Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell, Jack & Jerry Brisco, Steamboat & Youngblood, Sgt Slaughter & Don Kernodle, Windham & Rotunda, Ted Dibiase & Steve Williams, the Freebirds, Masked Superstar and Super Destroyer (Scott Irwin), the Longriders (Scoot and Bill Irwin), the Russians (Ivan & Nikita Koloff & Krusher Krushchev). All of those were real teams, keeping the matches fast paced and exciting, while also playing up the drama, whether in a high flying style, brawling style, or a mixture. RnR Express vs Midnight Express was as good as tag-team wrestling got, with fast moves, excellent psychology & storytelling, evil manager, and Ricky Morton selling his ass off until he finally gets the tag to Robert Gibson to come in and clean house, setting up for the finish. Part of the reason I was never a major WWF fan, was that the presentation was hokey and aimed too squarely at kids. I liked suspending disbelief and it was easier when it didn't look like a sitcom fight, a circus acrobatic routine or bad backstage comedy. When the angles were personal and believable (Mr Wrestling II turning on Magnum TA out of jealousy of his younger protege, Dirty Dutch Mantell taking on a foreign villain running down the USA, as he was a legit Vietnam veteran), rather than stolen dogs or wanting to sleep with a valet or silly stipulation matches; or, Thesz help us, a blindfold match (never done well). I like good acrobatic wrestlers, but there is a big difference between Tiger Mask and Dynamite Kid and the Young Bucks or Sammy Guevara. Guevara has the talent, but needs pick when and why he does something better. I also preferred wrestling when the wrestlers were mostly calling it in the ring. I've seen too many indie guys who have worked out their entire match, miss something, then are stuck where to go and try to repeat the flubbed maneuver. Is aw some of that on what I sampled of AEW, though not enough to be a major issue with the promotion, as much as the people involved. Flair & Steamboat tore the house down, night after night, without anything but a finish in mind. Randy Savage liked to work out his matches, and he and Steamboat had their Wrestlemania 3 show-stealing match completely laid out; but, Steamboat preferred reacting to the crowd and changing things up. Savage had a good head for what works in a match, as he booked the tv shows for ICW; so, he at least had experience in how to tell a great story in a match; but, he could improvise when it was required. So, yeah; I'm a "get off my lawn" old wrestling fan. That said, I think the NWA Power show demonstrated there could be a really good middleground, with modern ring action and old school promos and booking angles, with the right talent mix.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 14, 2021 20:51:19 GMT -5
Here's the other thing; I miss the territory days, as each promotion had its own flavor of wrestling. AWA was serious sports-oriented presentation, with a lot of former amateur and collegiate wrestlers and some wild brawlers. was a "big man" territory, with a virtuous champion fighting off monster heels, plus ethnic babyfaces. Memphis was wild action and fast-paced tag-teams. Georgia was a mix of brawls, mat wrestling and good promo guys. Florida was tight booking, long term angles, young guys building a name and veterans knocking off young punks. Mid-South was tough guys having tough fights, either on the mat or with fists flying everywhere. Texas was wild brawls, until the Von Eric boys made it rock and roll, with slick video presentation. Southeastern was often smaller, faster-paced wrestlers. Mid-Atlantic was top singles guys in well-booked long-term programs, mixing the best ring action with some of the best promo guys. Stampede, with the younger guys, was wild and exciting, with high flying, mat wrestling and brawling, especially with Dynamite Kid in the mix, doing all 3. Bret Hart would have never been as good as he was without having worked with Dynamite for so long. It pushed him to a higher level than his brothers. Keith was physically more rugged, Bruce had a better head for angles, Owen was a better worker and acrobat; but, Bret worked with Dynamite in Stampede and WWF, which really seasoned him. I can only imagine what the matches would have been like if Owen and Bret were swapped in age and Owen worked with Dynamite, in his prime. He got to work with other guys, like Liger; but, it wasn't quite the same schooling. Puerto Rico was bloody brawls, mixed with some lucha and mat wrestling. Mexico was the lucha acrobatics, but also wild brawls, in Tijuana. Montreal and Toronto tended to be mat-based, Britain was mat-oriented, with a 3-round system. You had variety. Now, it is WWE and WWE-style, with little real alternative, other than MMA or Japan (or Mexico, if you have access to lucha on one of the Spanish networks). Rip Rogers talked about that in a shoot interview, how you could work in those promotions and wrestle a different style in each, which made you a more rounded wrestler, which is why he worked in so many places, even though he never really wrestled above the mid-card. It did make him one of the best trainers in the business, with OVW.
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