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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 27, 2021 11:58:04 GMT -5
RIP to Donna Eaton. Never heard of her? Well, she wasn't a worker, wasn't a valet or wrestler. However, she was the daughter of Tennessee favorite Superstar Bill Dundee, which is how she met her husband, Beautiful Bobby Eaton. Dundee had a strict rule about his daughter dating any wrestler he was booking; so, when she and Bobby Eaton got together, they had to keep it a secret. Dad eventually found out, but relented, because Bobby was a nice, stand-up guy. They had 3 children together and stayed together across Bobby's career, until her passing, at the far too early age of 57.
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Post by Calidore on Jun 27, 2021 12:23:09 GMT -5
That's terrible news, and what a blow on top of Bobby's ongoing health problems.
That dating story is pretty famous, because you totally understand where Bill was coming from, but Bobby was the one guy who absolutely nobody had anything bad to say about. I think of him as wrestling's version of Moe Howard--awful bully in character, nicest guy in the world IRL.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 27, 2021 19:52:28 GMT -5
That's terrible news, and what a blow on top of Bobby's ongoing health problems. That dating story is pretty famous, because you totally understand where Bill was coming from, but Bobby was the one guy who absolutely nobody had anything bad to say about. I think of him as wrestling's version of Moe Howard--awful bully in character, nicest guy in the world IRL. Well, even in character, Bobby wasn't really that evil. Now, Dennis Condrey was your classic heel wrestler and Stan was the cocky ladies man/athlete that you couldn't help but hate, when he played the heel; but, Bobby was so good and spectacular that even though he was the heel, you still cheered him. He played classic heel more in Memphis and Nashville, as can be seen in a rare clip of him cutting heel promos.... (Nick Gulas' Mid-America promotion, from the Chatanooga tv) (Memphis, and the match against his father-in-in law) An excerpt from a 1999 interview with Bobbie, about how he met Donna and Bill found out they were dating... Bill: Last question. Is Bill Dundee really your father-in-law? Bobby: Yup. It's actually a pretty funny story how my wife Donna and I met. Bill Dundee was the boss in the territory in the time. The number-one rule he had for his daughter was that she was never, ever to go out with a wrestler. Heck, she wasn't even allowed to talk to them. Well, at their house, dad had his own phone line, and Donna had hers. And she was under strict orders to never use her dad's phone. Well, one day I called up about getting a booking changed, and Bill was in the shower. So, against orders, rather than let it ring, Donna picked up her dad's phone. She and I got to talking a bit, and she said she be at the matches and she'd wave to me. Well, she never showed up that night, and I wound up calling her two weeks later to ask her out for beer and pizza. So, without her dad knowing, we went out. That first date, she did all the talking, and I was pretty quiet, so she thought I was kind of dull. However, we kept going out. We kept going out and she kept it a secret from her dad for nine months. When she finally told him she was dating a wrestler, it was at dinner. He dropped his fork, started cursing, and yelled, "Who is he??!! I'll make sure he never works again!!!!" She told him it was me, and he didn't say a word, he just started eating again. Donna was like "So?", and her dad said that out of all the boys, she had picked the best. So, maybe nice guys don't finish last after all.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 27, 2021 20:36:22 GMT -5
ps At the end of the match, Brown Sugar (or Sweet Brown Sugar) is Koko B Ware, Bobby's tag-team partner in Memphis. Koko used to use that name, though it was also the ring name for Skip Young, another African-American wrestler who wrestled under a mask, with that name (and without a mask, under his own name).
Bobby wasn't originally part of the Midnight Express. The first Express team was Dennis Condrey and Randy Rose, in Southeastern (Pensacola Fl and Alabama, run by Ron Fuller), who were then joined by Norvell Austin, after he turned on partner "Bullet" Bob Armstrong (patriarch of the Armstrong clan, including Scott, Steve, Brad and Bryan aka Road Dogg) as a sort of Freebird-style trio (you never knew which two would wrestle). That version went to Memphis, around the time that Bobby was teaming with Koko, using the Sweet Brown Sugar name, with Jimmy Hart as their manager (part of Jimmy Hart's First Family stable). Also at that time, Robert Gibson was wrestling in a tag-team with his brother Ricky Gibson, who faced Eaton and Ware for the Southern tag titles in a feud. I got to see all of them while visiting my grandparents, when the Memphis syndicated show came on, from an Evansville, IN feed (part of the Memphis territory; my grandparents lived in southeastern Illinois and their tv came from Evansville and Terre Haute, IN). No sight of Ricky Morton, who might have been wrestling in Oklahoma, at this point. It was Dundee who paired Eaton & Condrey, with Jim Cornette added as manager, in Oklahoma, for Bill Watts' Mid-South promotion, in a talent swap between Memphis and Oklahoma. Dundee went down to Oklahoma to be the booker and he pushed for Eaton & Condrey, as a heel team and Gibson and Morton, as babyfaces and Cornette as a mouthpiece for the heels. Gibson & Morton had started teaming in Memphis, but with The Fabulous Ones (Steve Keirn & Stan Lane) on top, they were relegated to the B show circuit. Dundee liked their work and figured this was a good way to highlight them, with Eaton & Condrey a good pair to work with. Condrey was the seasoned veteran, Bobby was the best worker and had about 7 years experience and Gibosn had been around about that long too, with Morton starting in 1978. Cornette had been part of the group that Dundee took to work in Georgia, for Ole Anderson, as a side group to Georgia Championship Wrestling. Georgia had expanded into Ohio and west Virginia and wasn't running as many of their Georgia towns; so, Ole cut a deal with Jerry Jarrett to send a Memphis crew to run those towns as the Georgia Superstars, complete with their own tv show. Dundee booked it and was the lead babyface, with Cornette in the role of the heel manager, with the Cornette Dynasty of Champions (King Carl Fergie, Normal Frederick Charles, and the Angel). Dundee also brought along a babface tag-team, The Fantastic Ones, who were terry Taylor and Bobby Fulton, doing a rip-off of the Fabulous Ones.
Dundee then let Cornette run his mouth, Condrey and Eaton tear up the ring, introduced the Rock N Roll express and let them do their thing, while the girls screamed, and then set the two teams at each other and a legend was born. At first, I could only follow this through the Apter magazines, until the Mid-South tv show was put on WTBS, after Vince bought out Georgia and the tv show, under Ole's nose (in a deal brokered by Jim barnett, with the aid of Jack & Gerry Brisco). The ratings nose-dived when Vince started putting on tapes of WWF matches from the Northeast and not the studio show, with Gordon Solie, that fans had loved (and was the top rated show on WTBS). Ted Turner forced McMahon to put on a studio show (with B talent) and also hedged his bets by putting on Mid-South, on Sundays. That's where I finally got to see the Midnights vs Rock N Roll, as well as Ted Dibiase vs Hacksaw Jim Duggan (after Duggan broke away from The Rat Pack, where he had teamed with Dibiase and Matt Borne) and Magnum TA feud with Mr Wrestling II. Then, Ole got a Saturday morning show, McMahon soon sold off his interest to Jim Crockett and the Crockett era of WTBS began and Bill Watts was out. However, not too long after, the Crocketts brought in the Rock N Roll Express and it wasn't too much longer until the Midnights turned up, to renew the feud. Then, they were followed by the team they had been working against in Dallas, The Fantastics, with Bobby Fulton and Tommy Rogers. The Fantastics were formed in Mid-South, as a replacement Rock N Roll-type team, with a memorable feud against the Sheepherders (the future Bushwhackers). Then, they went to Dallas and wrestled the Midnights, and then to Crockett to follow the Rock N Roll Express, again.
Cornette and Fulton were old friends, going back to fan days, but always said the Fantastics always had the problem of following the Rock N Roll Express into territories and never really got the recognition they deserved because of it.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 1, 2021 20:08:04 GMT -5
Del Wilkes, aka The Trooper, aka The Patriot has passed away... Wilkes was born in 1961 and grew up in Columbia, SC, where he was a football standout, and attended the Univ of South Carolina, also in Columbia, where he was an All-American. However, after two failed tryouts with the NFL, he turned to pro wrestling, in a slightly unusual fashion.....for a male. He got his initial training at the Fabulous Moolah's camp, in Columbia. Moolah (Lilian Ellison) had resided there for years and trained women wrestlers for her traveling troupe and to book for other promoters. She did train some men, but mostly as enhancement guys (aka "jobbers") for tv tapings. Their job was to lose to the stars and make them look good. As such, he got a training in the basics, but not psychology. Luckily, he soon went to work for Verne Gagne's American Wrestling Association (AWA), where he was given a law enforcement gimmick, as The Trooper. Wilkes square jaw and chiseled physique fit the bill perfectly, coupled with his Carolina accent. It was there that he got more advanced training, working singles and in a tag-team, with DJ Peterson, winning the AWA World Tag-Team titles on the final AWA tv taping, in 1990. The promotion stopped booking shows and finally closed down completely in 1991. The time in the AWA helped put Wilkes into a position to join the fledgling promotion from Dallas, Global Wrestling federation, run by Joe Pedicino and Max Andrews, with alleged funding from a Nigerian businessman (which proved to be a hoax). Peterson became the masked Patriot, a babyfaceand won the tournament to crown a television champion. He then faced Al Perez (formerly of World Class and WCW) for the North American title, eventually winning it. he was the top young star of the company and defended the belt, then was put into a feud with a masked opponent, The Dark Patriot, who was supposed to be his evil counterpart (portrayed by Doug Gilbert, brother of "Hot Stuff" Eddie Gilbert, who was booking the GWF)> Wilkes got a lot of exposure as the GWF had a daily afternoon show on ESPN, broadcast nationally. When GWF folded, Wilkes went to work full time for All-Japan Pro Wrestling, facing the likes of Stan Hansen, Steve Williams, and Kenta Kobashi. he became good friends with Univ of Tennessee-Knoxville standout Doug Furnas, who had proceeded him in wrestling, by a couple of years (wrestling for Ron Fuller, before coming to Japan). Furnas was paired with Canadian Phil LaFon and were a top tag-team in All-Japan. All three were then brought to the WWF, during the Attitude Era. Wilkes had a short time in WCW, wrestling in a team with Marcus Bagwell, as Stars & Stripes. Wilkes left and returned to All-Japan, before he was signed to the WWF, in 1997. He took part in the USA vs Canada feud, with the Harts and Steve Austin, with Bret as a babyface in Canada and a heel in the US. He worked solos and tags against the Harts and had a WWF title shot, at the Ground Zero: In Your House PPV. A torn tricep put him out of action and ended his time in the WWF; and, essentially, his career. Wilkes was a long time steroid user, going back to high school and college and suffered muscle tears and health problems because of it. he was open about his use, as well as his addiction to painkillers, muscle relaxants and sleeping pills, the usual cocktail for pro wrestlers of the 90s. He gave interviews discussing how his usage had created injuries and hurt his career advancement, as well as his personal life. he also had his own podcast, where he spoke of his career, wrestling and other subjects. He died of a heart attack, at age 59. Here he is against Scott Anthony, aka Scotty the Body, aka Scotty Flamingo, aka Johnny Polo, aka Raven (Scott Levy), in GWF... ps The Handsome Stranger that Bonnie Blackstone mentioned was Marcus Bagwell, wearing a Lone Ranger mask. He would go from there to WCW, as marcus Alexander Bagwell, the "Buff" Bagwell. vs Bret Hart, with German commentary.....
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Josh
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Post by Josh on Jul 8, 2021 21:28:08 GMT -5
After only watching sporadically since the end of WCW, I’m now into more than I’ve ever been in my life. I realized they put some NJPW matches on Roku Channel in February or March, so I started watching those and it got me hooked. Bought AEW Revolution on a whim, and I’ve been watching all their shows regularly since. Tried getting into Impact, but couldn’t. I’ve started watching the WWE stuff over the past couple weeks, and while there’s some good in ring stuff, there’s still something a little off with the tone or something. Like I completely buy into Abadon, but find Alexa Bliss’s gimmick really dumb. I’ve been trying to watch a lot of indie matches on YouTube and I think I like it better than any of the promotions on TV.
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Post by Batflunkie on Jul 8, 2021 22:09:41 GMT -5
After only watching sporadically since the end of WCW, I’m now into more than I’ve ever been in my life. I realized they put some NJPW matches on Roku Channel in February or March, so I started watching those and it got me hooked. Bought AEW Revolution on a whim, and I’ve been watching all their shows regularly since. Tried getting into Impact, but couldn’t. I’ve started watching the WWE stuff over the past couple weeks, and while there’s some good in ring stuff, there’s still something a little off with the tone or something. Like I completely buy into Abadon, but find Alexa Bliss’s gimmick really dumb. I’ve been trying to watch a lot of indie matches on YouTube and I think I like it better than any of the promotions on TV. I never got into WCW even as an adult, though I did enjoy what little of the cruiser weight matches that I saw. More of an ECW guy to be honest. I watch Smackdown! here and there, seeing Paul Heyman being a smarmy little butt kisser is the only thing that keeps me engaged
Been thinking about watching some of the Ruthless Aggression era of Smackdown again through Peacock, it's what I grew up with and what I enjoy the most
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Josh
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Post by Josh on Jul 8, 2021 22:17:37 GMT -5
ECW wasn’t on the air where I lived at the time. My buddies and I were decidedly WCW fans, but watched WWE too. Growing up, nothing was on TV, but I rented every WWF tape I could find.
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Post by Batflunkie on Jul 8, 2021 22:22:39 GMT -5
ECW wasn’t on the air where I lived at the time. My buddies and I were decidedly WCW fans, but watched WWE too. Growing up, nothing was on TV, but I rented every WWF tape I could find. I vividly recall watching WCW Worldwide before the company folded, but that was as much as I saw of the product back then. Also for some reason my mom bought me NWO Wolfpack Valentines when I was around 8 or 9
I think what turned me off the most about WCW was the back-door politics revolving around the former WWF talent. It's the same problem I had with TNA, it just stagnates the product and turns the attention away from potential new stars in favor of the old ones
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Josh
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Post by Josh on Jul 8, 2021 22:28:50 GMT -5
Oh man, nWo valentines cards.
As much as I loved it at the time, it was not a good product once nWo really got going. The earlier stuff (but still once Turner owned it) had some pretty dire undercard matches, but at least it wasn’t a mockery.
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Josh
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Post by Josh on Jul 8, 2021 22:41:51 GMT -5
Man, now I’m thinking about WCW putting their heavyweight belt on David Arquette and thinking that was acceptable. And I say this as someone who loves Danhausen, Orange Cassidy, Effy and Dad.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 9, 2021 15:47:17 GMT -5
Well, I'm an old fart; so, I grew up with territorial wrestling and its death. I grew up in central Illinois, which wasn't a hotbed of wrestling, since we didn't have a major arena, locally, until the 80s, when the Decatur Civic Center was built. Once in a while, we might get the WWA (the Indianapolis promotion) come through or, in the early 70s, the AWA might do a spot show in Springfield or Peoria. So, we didn't have much wrestling on tv, until later. My grandparents lived in Bloomington, IL (to the north, closer to Chicago end of the state) and got Peoria tv stations, which carried the WWA's All-Star Wrestling tv show. The WWA was promoted by Dick the Bruiser and Wilbur Snyder, who also co-promoted the city of Chicago, with Verne Gagne's AWA. In the early 70s, the WWA was a good show, with Pretty Boy Bobby Heenan (before he was The Brain) as the top heel manager, with th likes of the Blackjacks (Mulligan and Lanza), the Valiants (Handsome Jimmy and Luscious Johnny) and a few others. The top babyfaces were Cowboy Bob Ellis (who was a good old fashioned cowboy sh@#-kicker/wrestler), Bruiser and Snyder. you got guys like Baron Von Raschke, Harley Race (once in a while), Dominic DeNucci, Golden Boy Paul Christy, Angelo Poffo (as The Graduate) and the Chain Gang, a heel tag-team. By the mid-70s, the top guys had gone of to the AWA or elsewhere, since Bruiser was cheap on the payoffs. Heenan leaving took the heel base out and Mulligan and Lanza worked the AWA and then Mulligan went East and Lanza stayed, until the WWF. We got their tv in the mid-late 70s, for a few weeks, while they promoted a show in Springfield. By then, they were hurting and about the only ones I liked watching were Wilbur Snyder (great mat technician) and the tag-team of the Young Lions, Spike Huber and Steve "Mr Electricity" Regal. Huber was the son-in-law of Bruiser and Regal was the son-in-law of Snyder, if that tells you anything about why they got pushed and not other talent. We got them again a couple of years later, when they were again promoting Springfield. The only real difference was Greg Wojokowski, The Great Wojo, a top collegiate wrestler, had turned heel. It was pretty boring stuff. They didn't really have angles, per se, compared to other promotions.
In 1981, the Springfiled station started airing the Poffo Family's International Championship Wrestling, taped in Lexington, KY. The Poffos had established an "outlaw" promotion, running between West Virginia/East Tennessee, across Northern TN, Kentucky, Indian, Illinois and Missouri, mostly along the I-64 corridor that was kind of a dead zone. They had linked up with a break-off group from Knoxville, including Ronnie Garvin, Bob Orton Jr, Bob Roop and Boris Malenko (Dean's father). The two groups worked together, for a bit, then consolidated, then most of them, except Garvin, moved in to bigger promotions when their heat had died down. The Poffos featured Randy Savage as the lead heel, Lanny as part of a babyface tag-team, with 2nd generation wrestler George Weingeroff (father was Gentleman Saul Weingeroff, wrestler and manager). George had been a top collegiate at the Univ of Tenn/Chatanooga, along with Pistol Pez Whatley and both turned pro, working for Nick Gulas. There was also The Convertible Blonds: Gary Royal (who left to work for Crockett), Rick Starr (a Tennessee wrestler) and Hustler Rip Rogers (who had worked with the Poffos for Gulas). There was The Great Tio, a Samoan wrestler, along with son Chief Tapu, though they hid their relationship, at first, until they used it for an angle. They later wrestled in the south as The Maoris. Angelo wrestled under a mask, as The Miser (which de-aged him, as he still was in great shape, but looked old, in his face). ICW was an exciting promotion, with Randy and Ronnie Garvin concocting most of the angles and some darn good ring action. They were pretty good through 1982, but started losing talent and using guys from Detroit, which was near death. Eventually, they made a deal with Memphis to do an angle where the Poffos invaded the Memphis studio, looking for Lawler, after years of challenging the Memphis stars on tv. ICW folded, in 1984, with Paul Christy buying the belt from the Poffos and using it himself, after Randy jobbed to him. They ended using some lower end Memphis guys.
I first saw Memphis, around 1981 or so, visiting my relatives in Southern IL, where they got Indiana tv stations and the Memphis show, from Evansville, IN, where they regularly promoted. They were in the midst of the Andy Kaufman stuff, and I got to see Lawler, Dutch Mantell, Jimmy Hart, Bobby Eaton and Sweet Brown Sugar (Koko B Ware), Ricky and Robert Gibson (yes, Ricky Gibson, Robert's older brother), and the Midnight Express: Dennis Condrey, Randy Rose and Norvell Austin. They were a 3-man team, there.
By the summer of 1982, we got cable tv and I got to see Southwest Championship, from San Antonio, TX, promoted by Joe Blanchard. Son Tully was the top heel, with Wahoo mcDaniel facing him, and guys like The Grappler (Len Denton), Gino Hernandez, Scott Casey, Bruiser Bob Sweetan, the Sheepherders and the Fabulous Blonds (Eric Emrby and Ken Timbs). They were on the USA Network, which also showed the WWF madison Square Garden matches, about a month after they occurred. That's where I first saw Tiger Mask, Andre the Giant (after seeing his as Big Foot, on the 6 Million Dollar Man), Blackjack Mulligan, Tony Atlas, Greg Valentine, Bob Backlund, Jimmy Snuka, Ray Stevens and Superstar Billy Graham. Eventually, Southwest fell behind in their payments to USA and a tasteless angle, involving a manure pit, got them kicked off and their Sunday time slot went to the WWF, for All-American Wrestling.
We also had Superstation WTBS, which meant World Championship Wrestling, Saturdays, at 6:05 EST. Back then, it was just the name of the Georgia Championship Wrestling show. They had guys like Tommy Wildfire Rich, Mad Dog Buzz Sawyer, Paul Orndorff, the Masked Superstar (Bill Eadie, later Demolition Ax), Ivan Koloff, The Iron Sheik, Brad Armstrong, Tito Santana, the Super Destroyer (Scott Irwin, whose borther Bill joined him as the Super Destroyers, in Texas and Oklahoma, and the Longriders, in the AWA). They were the top nationally broadcast wrestling tv show and lots of stars from NWA promotions would come through, like Duty Rhodes, Jack Brisco, and Ric Flair, defending the NWA World title. They also had a Sunday highlights show, which ran clips from previous weeks, as well as matches from Florida, the Carolinas, Mid-South and the AWA. Then, in a deal brokered by former Georgia partner Jim Barnett, Vince McMahon bought the GCW stock and the time slot. Vince started running tapes of the WWF, but there was a big uproar about the loss of the studio show and Ted Turner eventually forced Vince to do a studio show, which was terrible, as his stars never appeared on it. Meanwhile, remaining Georgia partner Ole Anderson cobbled together Championship Wrestling from Georgia, with an early saturday morning timeslot, with a few Georgia guys and some help from Memphis, Florida and the Carolinas. Ratings continued to fall for the WWF World Championship Wrestling and Turner brought Bill Watts' Mid-South Wrestling show on Sundays (I think it was). Watts was on fire, with Ted DiBiase as lead heel, the Junkyard Dog and the recently turned babyface Hacksaw Jim Duggan, The rock N Roll Express vs the Midnight Express, Magnum TA vs Mr Wrestling II, Hercules Hernandez, Gen Skandor Ackbar, the One Man Gang (the former Crusher Broomfield, from ICW) and some others. Eventually, Vince sold the World Championship Wrestling slot to Jim Crockett, who promoted the Carolinas and Virginia, for a million dollars. that was the start of the NWA World Championship Wrestling, as they promoted themselves as both Jim Crockett Promotions and the National Wrestling Alliance.
The NWA had always been a conglomeration of promotions, including the WWF, when Vince Sr was promoting it (into the early 80s). You had NWA-affiliated promotions in Florida, Georgia, the Carolinas, Eastern Tennessee, Detroit, St Louis, Kansas City, Dallas, TX, Los Angeles, Portland, Hawaii, San Francisco, New Zealand and affiliations with the AWA, WWA, Puerto Rico and All-Japan, as well as EMLL, in Mexico. However, by the mid-80s, some of those promotions went under, like Detroit and Tennessee and Florida suffered a downturn when Dusty Rhodes left, taking some of his crew and promoter Eddie Graham committed suicide. Texas eventually broke away from the NWA and tried to promote nationally, but had major drug issues and Kerry had his motorcycle accident. Sam Muchnick retired, in St Louis, and the WWF moved in. Paul Bosch retired and turned Houston over to the WWF. Vince bought out Los Angeles (and reneged on payments) and Toronto (Jack Tunney) and Stampede, in Calgary (reneging on payments, after signing up Bret & Jim Neidhart and the Bulldogs). Kansas City was a low end promotion, with Harley race the only real draw and too many years of Bob Brown and Rufus R Jones and similar old timers and green rookies. The AWA lost a lot of talent to Vince, with Hulk Hogan, Dr D David Schultz, Bobby heenan, gene Okerlund, Jim Brunzell and then Vince snapped up Roddy Piper, Bob Orton Jr and Greg Valentine from the Carolinas, as well as Orndorff, from Georgia. Crockett became the defacto top NWA promotion and controlled the world title, through Flair, and dusty was now his booker. Those were the glory days of the WCW tv show, with Crockett running it, with the 4 Horsemen, Rock N Roll and Midnight Express feud, the Fantastics, the Russians, magnum TA, Barry Windham, Lex Luger, the Road Warriors; and, later, the remnants of Mid-South/UWF, after Crockett bought out Bill Watts (Sting, Eddie Gilbert, Rick Steiner, Terry Taylor, Steve Williams. Crockett was real competition for Vince, until Dusty killed too many key towns with reverse finishes and Crocket spent himself into oblivion, securing tv markets. That led to the Ted Turner buyout and rebranding as World Championship Wrestling, for the promotion, not just the tv show.
Turner kept putting the wrong people in charge and they got one good year out of the NWO angle, then went downhill, fast.
I miss the territory days, as each promotion had its own flavor and people would come and go and breath new life into things, periodically. Talent could work regular schedules all over the countrya dn in front of big crowds, despite what the revisionist WWE official history would have you believe. Prior to Wrestlemania 3, the biggest wrestling gate had been in Comsiky Park, fro Nature Boy Buddy Rogers vs Pat O'Connor, for the NWA World heavyweight title, in from of over 33,000 fans. Florida had run stadium shows, as did Dallas and the AWA. It wasn't smoke filled halls and bingo parlors, except the odd spot show and that describes the Northeast, where the McMahons promoted, more than the South or Midwest.
I miss having NWA, AWA and WWF World titles, talent exchanges, like the Crockett Cup tag-team tournament, where they brought in guys from Mid-South and Japan, NWA and AWA stars making guest appearances in Madison Square Garden and guys like Graham and Bruno Sammartino defending the WWF title on NWA shows, or title vs title matches, like Ric Flair vs Bob Backlund, in Atlanta, with the NWA and WWF titles on the line; or, Flair vs Rick Martel, NWA vs AWA in Tokyo, for All-Japan.
I also missed the semblance of realism in the shows. we all knew it was worked; but, we were better able to suspend disbelief and enjoy the matches and angles, before they started treating it like it was all fake. You don't go to a magic show to have the magician show you how the illusion is done. You don't stop a movie to show the director discussing the scene with the actors and the make-up people touching up the extras, or see the stuntmen climb off the airbag after a freefall.
As far as I'm concerned, "pro wrestling" died around 1989 and "sports entertainment" took over and the business has been diminished ever since. I watched through the Attitude era and WCW until Russo took over booking and drove it so far into the ground it came out the other side and there was no recovery. By 2001/2002 I couldn't stand to watch the WWF, as, without competition, Vince just ran the same old crap, with bad backstage skits and cookie cutter matches and performers.
I caught ECW on TNN and enjoyed a little bit, but the garbage matches turned me off. It was obvious that Heyman knew how to cover the weaknesses of what he had; but, he also was trying to push it further than he had resources and it was always a matter of time, especially since any talent he developed soon jumped ship for better pay, especially when he started bouncing checks.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 9, 2021 15:52:17 GMT -5
ps I did come back, with the Billy Corgan NWA and sampled AEW, but it's not my cup of tea (too sloppy and bad booking). The NWA was good, but lost momentum and talent during the pandemic. I have only seen clips since they started back up and am completely lost. Doesn't help that Question Mark/Josephus passed away, at such a young age, and promising talent, like Ricky Starks, left.
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Josh
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Post by Josh on Jul 9, 2021 16:18:03 GMT -5
Granted the territories were before my time, but I feel like pro wrestling (as opposed to sports entertainment) is still alive, albeit in the indies and overseas. NJPW, for example, seems to have a structure much more similar to the old days, in that the focus is more on the in-ring action and telling the story there as opposed to having guys cutting constant promos and skits. It’s also taken much more seriously than it ever has been in the states (in my memory). And I think that’s a big issue in the states. Just like there are lots of creators who have no desire to ever do work for Marvel or DC, there are tons of super talented people in the indies that have no desire to ever sign to one of the big promotions. And even more who would sign to a major, but only ones like NJPW (again because it’s handled so differently). I think, just like comics, there’s something out there for everyone in wrestling. You just have to search for it.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Jul 9, 2021 16:25:54 GMT -5
NWA Power was a lot of fun but the pandemic basically killed it dead. Returning with a diminished roster and a no longer free TV show? No thanks. I was into AEW pre-pandemic too, but had no interest in watching crowdless wrestling, and by May of last year I completely stopped watching wrestling, new or old, anyway. I've been a big fan since the summer of 86, with numerous breaks over the years. With this break, I basically replaced wrestling with comics as my main obsession (had taken a 10-12 year sabbatical) and dont really miss the squared circle at all
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