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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 9:56:47 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 10:56:23 GMT -5
Here's the video and to me ... I believe that there is a 40 percent chance that this will happen; but highly unlikely and this will make many ROH fans like myself unhappy and I wished that Impact Wrestling does not do this.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 13, 2019 12:54:58 GMT -5
Suspect this will turn out to be total BS. Sinclair is a big deal and they are quite happy with ROH as content for their syndication network. Jim Cornette and Brian Last were examining a "what if?" scenario, where AEW tried to buy ROH, for a ready made roster and Cornette pretty much nixed the idea as being remotely possible. Anthem isn't throwing money around like AEW and they haven't exactly improved the circumstances of Impact, which makes it all rather unlikely. Until it is reported in the Wrestling Observer as "serious negotiations," it is probably fanboy BS.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 13, 2019 13:13:01 GMT -5
Meanwhile, this is legit........ Jim Cornette will be the color man for 2 nights of tapings, at the Georgia Public Broadcasting studios, for the new NWA tv show. The Wrestling Observer has a piece, here.Play-by-play commentator Joe Galli is the announcer for Championship Wrestling from Hollywood (which served as the NWA tv show, under previous ownership). They haven't announced how and where the show will air. Cornette and Galli did commentary for the NWA 70th Anniversary show. Corrigan is really giving this a nice mix of young talent and NWA wrestling tradition, while also giving it all a nice, modern presentation. In the current incarnation, the NWA is not a conglomeration of indie promoters, who have paid fees to the owner. Instead, Corrigan bought the trademarks and title belts for use in NWA branded shows, either PPV, tv or live, where their titles will be defended. He has been working with other global promotions to host NWA title matches, including the Chinese OEW promotion, where Nick Aldiss defended the belt. This could be the sleeper in the equation. ROH could be a major player, if Sinclair had the desire. They have the money and the network; but, neither the desire or the management. They are happy with what they have, which is mainly a company-owned, steady content provider. Impact is still struggling to survive, with a miniscule profile and wrestlers looking to get their hands on AEW's money. AEW has thrown money at some pretty questionable people and had shown little care with their pre-shows, for their PPV events. That's supposed to help entice casual viewers to buy; but, there is no evidence that they are getting anything other than die-hards. They won't be able to sustain a tv show on TNT, with that kind of approach. They have to capture casual viewers. For the indie guys, there are potentially more places to work and gai experience, though too many are putting guys in matches who aren't ready to be there (and WWE has been guilty of this with NXT and the main roster). It seems like no one is playing the long game here, so far, although Corrigan seems to have a plan in mind and is slowly unfolding it. They had some audio issues with the NWA 70th show; but, the event itself was highly praised. In a perfect world, all of them, plus Lucha Underground, will become hot and we will get the variety of wrestling we could find in the 70s and 80s.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 20:30:01 GMT -5
It's excellent clip Cody and thanks for sharing it ... Jim Cornette is a sound man with a sound mind. He should run WWE.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2019 7:50:41 GMT -5
You guys know I was a Hulkamaniac (it's Hogan who got me into the sport), but that doesn't mean I'd excuse every wrestling decision he made.
I was reading some 1995 issues of the Wrestling Observer. It got me thinking about the Hogan/Vader feud.
Hogan should have put Vader over (and I'm sure he'd have wanted Vader to return the favour). At SuperBrawl V, they battled to an inconclusive finish; at Uncensored'95, Hogan fought Vader in a strap match but dragged Ric Flair from turnbuckle to turnbuckle in order to 'win' the bout; and at Bash at the Beach '95, Hogan climbed out of a cage to 'beat' Vader.
So at no time did Hogan conclusively beat Vader, in my view. Dragging someone else from turnbuckle to turnbuckle doesn't count. Technically, climbing out of a cage is a win, but not in my world.
Hogan could and should have lost to Vader at SuperBrawl V. And then perhaps wrestled to an inconclusive finish at Uncensored '95. Vader could have been pinned to end the feud at Bash at the Beach '95.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 14, 2019 16:34:53 GMT -5
Hogan's role should have been putting guys over; Vader, Sting, Rude, you name it. He was done and was too lazy to actually work, in the ring. Long gone were the days in New Japan and the AWA, where he';d work his butt off or get eaten alive. He got lazy in the WWF except when up against Piper or Savage) and was worse in WCW, since they gave him a ridiculous contract to do nothing but say, "Brotha!" a lot, and promote that trainwreck of a tv show he had (in tenth rate syndication markets). Vader should have beaten him decisively and left him laying.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2019 18:00:15 GMT -5
I agree Vader should have got a pin.
The Flair feud was the same. Okay, I understand Hogan pinning Flair and winning the WCW World Title at Bash at the Beach 1994. But their rematch at Clash of the Champions ended inconclusively - and then Hogan 'retired' Flair at Halloween Havoc 1994. Flair, in my view, should have pinned Hogan at Clash of the Champions, allowing Hogan to win the "rubber match". But he basically pulverised Flair for most of the feud.
Vader should have had at least one pin.
Even in the kayfabe-heavy WCW Magazine, I remember Mark Madden doing a column where he talked about Hogan having weak opponents in title bouts (I guess he meant Butcher) and having convoluted title matches where his belt wasn't on the line.
I hope I remember this rightly, but after winning the WCW World Title in 1994, he only lost it (to the Giant) via DQ - with it being revealed Jimmy Hart had betrayed Hogan and signed a contract for Hogan/Giant with a "Loser can lose belt via DQ" stipulation.
I did read that Hogan wanted his win back against Brock Lesnar. Lesnar had beaten Hogan on Smackdown (around summer 2002). The article I read stated that Hogan had wanted to get that win back at some point in late 2002.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 14, 2019 20:25:46 GMT -5
Hogan was a selfish worker, who only cared about his own status and payoff. Flair cared about putting on the best show and "making: guys, to set up new opponents. In fact, probably to his detriment. he sold too much for guys he liked, but weren't in the right place to be a contender and probably sold too much in his matches with actual contenders. The difference was that the NWA World Champion was there to draw a house for the member promoter and make the local star look that much better, to build business after the champion left and create even bigger business when he returned, for a rematch. The WWF format was that the babyface champion would face and, ultimately, defeat the next challenger. They especially liked ethnic champions, because they drew big crowds in a market where the media looked down upon wrestling. Ethnic papers didn't have the same prejudices and would give results and advertise crowds and Italians turned out for Bruno and Puerto Ricans and Latins for Pedro Morales. Heel champions were there to transition the belt and rarely held it long, until Billy Graham, who was super over and more of a "tweener." Backlund became the odd man out, as he wasn't an ethnic babyface and more closely fit the NWA model. However, Vince Sr loved him, he had legit amateur credentials and could work. crowds loved him and he sold out MSG and other arenas in the territory. The problem was, he was kept on top, with many of the same guys, for too long. They probably should have transitioned before 1984 (probably 1983, as he was still strong in '82).
Hogan was the all-encompassing superhero that fit Vince Jr's idea of a champion: a muscleman superhero who knocks off everyone thrown at him. They'd feed him monster and dastardly villain after another, leaving them used up and mostly useless, afterward. Hogan didn't have many repeat programs, except with guys like Savage and orndorff, who made him look good. With guys like Bundy or Studd, Hogan was doing the work. orndorff was a 100 times the worker Hogan was, had better psychology, and could play both heel and babyface equally well. Hogan had the look.
Funny enough, one of the alternates to Hogan was Kerry Von Erich. While he didn't have Hogan's strength on promos, he had the charisma, a better body, and better looks. Women drooled over Von Erich and guys respected him because he was convincing in brawls and was a legit athlete (never an Olympic hopeful, as stated in World Class propaganda; but, a natural athlete). Vince actually featured his title win in the first issue of the WWF magazine. He came courting (at least, metaphorically, if not directly); but, Fritz was doing well and Kerry wouldn't leave family. Kerry only went there after World Class was pretty much done.
When Hogan came to WCW, i was all about looking out for number one. He only looked to jobbing to Goldberg because of the crowd at the Georgia Dome. They could have done even bigger business had they gone for a PPV show; However, Hogan ensured that he got the belt back. The only reason he turned heel, in the first place, was because the NWO was turning out to be way more over than he was. Hogan was getting booed by WCW crowds and wasn't drawing (no one really was, until the NWO angle set things on fire). So, he turned heel to be with the NWO and be at the center of attention (and Hall and Nash were smart enough to know that Hogan could manipulate Bischooff to their benefit). He wasn't about to return the favor to Flair, though he did eventually, when business was going downhill. Warrior was brought in for Hogan to get his win back. Hogan was that childish about losing fake wrestling matches. Flair didn't care. With or without the belt, Flair was the element that made WCW work; always was, always would be. Whenever things went south, they came crawling back to Flair to save them. Flair just wasn't as shrewd behind the scenes and spent way too much time dealing with guys like Jim Herd and Bischoff, who couldn't recognize what they had. Vince could and did and used Flair well and Flair always worked his butt off for hi; but, he was also never comfortable in the WWF/E, stylistically. He was used to more competitive presentation, making guys into stars and having great matches with them, building a great card from top to bottom. He was the guy pushing to make stars of Pillman and Austin, when everyone else ignored them as mid-card guys. Vince saw the same thing Flair did and made superstars of them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 5:44:05 GMT -5
I could pick apart Hogan's WCW tenure for hours! And even as a Hulkamaniac, I can be objective.
Some of his acts seemed selfless in WCW, particularly during his WCW phase. I mean, three times he submitted to Lex Luger's "Torture Rack", including a Nitro episode where Luger won the world title. But a week or so later, Luger lost the title to Hogan at Road Wild 1997. So what did it achieve, really?
Was he selfless during his WWF return in 2002? Well, Kurt Angle got a victory over him at King of the Ring. Brock Lesnar beat him decisively. And with Edge, he lost the world tag team titles. But, as I stated earlier, I did read that he wanted that win over Lesnar back, possibly at Survivor Series 2002. That never happened, of course.
I always appreciated his charisma and entertaining style. He got me into the sport. But some "passing of the torch" later on would have helped. I was quite disappointed, while reading his autobiography, to learn that after being beaten by Warrior at WrestleMania VI, he handed Warrior the belt so that the spotlight would remain on HULK HOGAN. That was a bit selfish.
I once read that WCW were seeking Yokozuna in 1994 - so that Hogan could get that win back, too!
He got his "second wind" in WCW. I thought his match against Flair at Bash at the Beach 1994 was very heated, atmospheric and entertaining. But as the mid-to-late 90s progressed, he should have been thinking about passing the torch, perhaps to someone like Steve Austin.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 8:34:50 GMT -5
Hogan's tenure at WCW was by far the worst thing that ever happen because of the NWO farce that went on for a better part of 2 and possibly 3 years and over 50 wrestlers in either NWO and NWO Wolfpack. I turned on to WCW Nitro every so often and stopped watching WCW Thunder and he was the main reason why WCW stinks. In reality, I really wanted to take Sting's Baseball Bat and clobber Hogan, Nash, and Hall silly. That's how I hated the New World Order and I really despise Eric Bischoff more than ever. Defacing this Title Belt is the most shocking thing that Hogan done in his entire career!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 8:52:14 GMT -5
The defacing made sense from a villainous perspective, akin to how a low-rent supervillain might deface Avengers HQ.
The nWo angle started off well with Hall and Nash tagging with Hogan. It gave WCW a "new flavour". It would have been boring for me to watch more Hogan VS Dungeon of Doom. There *might* have been some mileage in seeing Hogan team with the likes of Sting and Lex Luger against the Outsiders (and an alternative third man, e.g. Roddy Piper). But, really, the heel turn rejuvenated his career.
But the nWo angle did fizzle out. By mid-to-late 1997, it was wearying to see WCW getting beaten down continually. Little victories here and there did not matter. The Outsiders would lose their tag titles, Hogan would lose the world title, etc. But either nWo Bischoff would strip someone of the belt or they'd lose it. It'd be like watching a superhero quadrilogy where the heroes just keep getting beaten again and again - with no sign of victory.
They screwed up Sting/Hogan at Starrcade 1997. Nick Patrick's 'quick count' was no such thing.
I feel they could have done well with nWo Black and White versus nWo Wolfpac. Factions made sense. It could have kept the feud going even further. But then everyone from Vincent and Brian Adams to Santa Claus became a member of either nWo faction. It got tired.
And Hogan, perhaps thinking of himself as usual, just did his "out of nowhere" face turn in the summer of 1999. They could have done a "Road to Hulkamania" tour, involving Hogan seeking redemption. That's how I'd have done it. But his face turn came out of nowhere - and WCW from 1999 to 2001 was extremely unwatchable.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 9:57:40 GMT -5
Around the time I started watching US wrestling, Sting was a member of the Four Horsemen. He had joined the faction in 1990 when they were good guys. By early 1990, he had been kicked out of the group. By the summer, he won the NWA World Heavyweight Championship from Ric Flair at The Great American Bash in a heated and exciting match.
Although I only started watching US wrestling in the late 80s/early 90s, I soon became aware of the history of various promotions. And that led me to becoming very aware of the history of the dastardly Four Horsemen. I could not appreciate them in their prime, but I certainly appreciate them as far as historical context is concerned. While some incarnations have been inferior to the original, the "brand" itself is a strong one. And thanks to the likes of Blu-rays and the WWE Network, one has become more than familiar with the Four Horsemen.
So when I began watching WCW, I knew some of the historical context pertaining to the Four Horsemen - and it certainly felt strange to see Sting as part of the group even though they were faces at the time. From a storyline perspective, it all made sense. And led to the world title bout between Sting and Ric Flair. Still, it never quite felt right for a clean-cut winner like Sting to be part of a group that had a rather dark history. Faces though they were at the times, they had made their name as villains. It felt a little like seeing a clean-cut superhero joining a band of anti-heroes or vigilantes. It never felt quite right, despite the logical progression up until The Great American Bash.
Having followed US wrestling since the early 90s, I have to say that the Four Horsemen were never the same after the early 90s. I could never really muster up enthusiasm for the 1993 incarnation. The 1995-97 incarnation served a purpose, I guess, but it was never the same as what came before, especially if we use the photocopy of a photocopy analogy.
Long live the Four Horsemen, though! And no matter how brief his tenure, long live Sting's membership of the group!
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Post by sabongero on Sept 18, 2019 13:10:39 GMT -5
You guys should watch the Youtube shoot interview of Greg Gagne, where he gave the invasion angle idea to Eric Bischoff. But Bischoff's greed and hunger for power made him fire Greg Gagne. Eric had the idea of the invasion angle but didn't know how to work it out and just utilized the top tier talent to keep it going without a conclusion at the same time sacrificing the middle portion of the talent roster. Greg explained he had the whole angle where the middle roster were to be built up so that they would be brought to main event status and keep the angle going strong and not making it stale and had an ending. Too bad Greg wasn't around.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 13:55:48 GMT -5
@taxidriver1980 ... To me, Sting should never ever been a Horsemen (I'm a big Sting Fan) and I felt who ever came up with this idea should be shot and sent to the Russian Front. I just feel it just not right to me and never will. sabongero ... Greg Gagne, I admire that man and I feel that Eric Bischoff is one of the most despicable men that ever ran Pro Wrestling, he was a failure at WCW and at TNA Impact. I just can't stand that guy and Vince Russo and wished Greg Gagne and Jim Cornette ran WCW.
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