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Post by commond on Dec 31, 2023 19:34:04 GMT -5
Is it true that Bill Watts insisted every performer must stay in the arena until the end of the show? Anyone know? If so, what do you think about that rule? On the one hand, I understand the whole respect thing (and learning; a rookie opening card wrestler could learn something from watching the main event). But at the same time, if it’s a four hour show, you might want to leave and catch a flight, sleep, go to the hire car, etc. Watts introduced several backstage rules, mostly in an effort to protect kayfabe. Heels and faces were no longer allowed to travel together. They weren't allowed to stay at the same hotels or eat at the same restaurants and they were forbidden to spend time together in the locker rooms. Heel wrestlers weren't allowed to bring their wives or children to shows because heels weren't supposed to be loving husbands or fathers. He also expected wrestlers to sell the storylines outside of the arenas. If you were injured, you had to sell the injury while traveling between shows. If you were beaten up on TV, and you were spotted eating out that night at a restaurant, Watts would fine you. Needless to say, these rules made Watts unpopular among the wrestlers. The most interesting thing about it is that it had worked for Mid-South in the mid-80s, but less than a decade later it was considered draconian. That tells you how much the business had changed by the early 90s.
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 1, 2024 6:01:26 GMT -5
Happy January, everyone:
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 1, 2024 8:47:17 GMT -5
Great big match worker. Check out his matches against Terry Gordy and Riki Choshu. Look at this:
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 1, 2024 14:06:06 GMT -5
Happy 80th birthday to Jimmy Hart:
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Post by impulse on Jan 1, 2024 15:33:56 GMT -5
So is this the music thread now or something??? jk
I remember when I was as kid they had the beat-em-up stuffed felt dolls of Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage and a few others I think.
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 1, 2024 15:48:57 GMT -5
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Post by dbutler69 on Jan 1, 2024 16:01:00 GMT -5
Yeah, I've watched some of his reign, as he was (I believe) the predecessor to Bill Watts. Yeah, I'd read he offered a $5,000 bonus to whoever had the best match at a show (maybe only PPV's for that amount, I don't remember) and yeah, the wrestling was really good, I agree. He was the one, however, who stated that anyone who propels his opponent over the top rope onto the floor is automatically disqualified. That rule seemed to get ignored a lot, though. And I agree that the Dangerous Alliance is a lot of fun. The over-the-top-rope DQ had been a rule before Frey took over. I can't recall whether he reinforced it or not. It was Watts banning moves from the top rope that stands out to me, although a lot of folks forget that he ended up admitting it was a mistake and rescinded the rule (except for diving knees off the top, for some reason.) I thought Frey came on WCW Saturday Night and announced the over-the-top-rope DQ rule, but I guess he must have just been announcing the enforcement of an already existing rule. For that matter, between him announcing strict enforcement of the rules, then Bill Watts announcing former wrestler Ole Anderson as the new head of officials plus strict enforcement of the rules, it reminds me an awful lot of over at the WWF where Jack Tunney announced strict enforcement of the rules and that former wrestler Sgt Slaughter would be head of officials. The WWF deal would be ignored after a couple of months, though. It seems like somebody copied somebody, and if I have my timeline right, I think WCW started their rules crackdown before WWF. I'm glad that Watts admitted his mistake and rescinded that dumb rule. I can't wait till I get to that point in my viewing, because it's really killing the Light Heavyweight division and the exciting high flyers.
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Post by impulse on Jan 1, 2024 21:09:22 GMT -5
Thanks. I don't know much about wrestling that a kid in and the 80s and 90s doesn't, but glad to be here.
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 2, 2024 8:27:22 GMT -5
Look at this: I was never a fan of poster magazines. Magazines are not cheap. They never really were in relation to comics and newspapers. So whether as a kid or adult, when I buy a magazine, I want lots to read. If I’m gonna pay nearly £7 for a music magazine, I want a lot in there. Paying a lot for a small amount of reading material, because a publication is mainly posters, never appealed to me.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jan 2, 2024 9:54:04 GMT -5
I watched WCW Beach Blast 1992 for the first time. Flyin’ Brian Pillman vs. Scotty Flamingo for the Light Heavyweight Championship. This was an excellent match with a fast pace and good storytelling. Unfortunately the stupid new rules did affect this match. Basically Bill Watts sabotaged the Light Heavyweight division because he don’t like that type of rasslin’. There was one instance where Pillman climbed to the top then the ref had to remind hm that, due to the new rules. He’d be disqualified if he did that. Anyway, Flamingo beats Pillman for the championship. I was surprised, as I expected Pillman to retain. I read that he was unhappy about the new rules, and who can blame him? I wonder if that’s also why Jushin Liger wasn’t long for the WCW, too. Ah, who needs him anyway, he’s boring. Ron Simmons vs. the Taylor Made Man (Terry Taylor). This was a decent match, won by Simmons, as I expected, as he’s on a mission to become the first black WCW champ. Simmons at one point clotheslines Taylor over the top rope onto the (now concrete) floor, but even with the new rules this isn’t a DQ because…it wasn’t the clothesline but Taylor’s momentum that carried him over the top rope?! WTF? They say you’re not allowed to propel your opponent over the top rope onto the floor, but you’re still allowed to clothesline him over? I don’t understand the distinction here, but I guess that’s pro wrestling logic for you. Greg the Hammer Valentine vs. Marcus Alexander Bagwell. This was another pretty good midcard match. Very god storytelling with the high energy rookie vs. the grizzled veteran. The future Buff Bagwell gets off to a fast start until Valentine slows things down then methodically works the leg, and Bagwell did a really good job of selling that injury, and Valentine wins with the figure four. Sting vs. Cactus Jack in a Falls Count Anywhere match. This is not for Sting’s WCW title. No DQ’s and, as the name says, falls count anywhere, inside or outside the ring. Appropriately, the match starts before Sting even reaches the ring, as Cactus Jack jumps him. This was an exciting, brutal match. A lot of hard bumps, especially by Cactus Jack, outside the ring. They did go inside the ring for a portion of the match, and Jack actually did some real wrestling in there. The match ends with Sting giving Jack a clothesline of the top rope (no DQ’s so thankfully you can actually go off the top rope in this match) onto the wooden entrance ramp. Rick Rude vs. Ricky the Dragon Steamboat in a 30 Minute Iron Man Match. Unfortunately this is not for Rude’s US Championship belt. Anyway, the rule is that whoever gets the most decisions in 30 minutes wins. This match kept up an incredible pace for most of the match, before slowing down with about 5 minutes left or so. Rude took a 3-1 lead, but Steamboat rallied for a 3-3 tie then got the winning pinfall with about a minute left, then Rude furiously gets a bunch of nearfalls in the final minute but can’t get the job done, as Steamboat wins 4-3. Oh, and Rude did lose one decision for coming off the top rope onto Steamboat. Next is a six man tag team match with Barry Wyndham, Dustin Rhodes, and Nikita Koloff vs Arn Anderson, Beautiful Bobby Eaton, and Stunning Steve Austin of the Dangerous Alliance. This was a so-so match with the good guys winning when Arn Anderson gets the DQ for coming off the top rope. These guys were capable of better, but I get a feeling the purpose of this match (other than to get these guys in a PPV) was to put over the dumb new rules. The last match is for the tag team championship with the Steiner Brothers vs. Dr Death Steve Williams and Terry “Bam Bam” Gordy. By rights, either the Sting/Cactus Jack or the Rude/Steamboat match should have been the main even, but Bill Watts loves Dr Death and Bam Bam, so here you go. I love watching the Steiners, and this was a good match, but not as good as most of the Steiner Brothers matches I’ve seen. It ends in a time limit draw, so the Steiners retain their belts. The Steiners are extremely popular, but Bill Watts is apparently a fan of Gordy & Williams, so the Steiners aren’t long for the title, as they will lose it to this duo who have been wrestling out of Japan recently so a lot of WCW fans might not even be that familiar with them at this point. Makes sense. I have a feeling that I’m not going to love the Bill Watts era. Overall, this was an excellent PPV. There were no bad matched (the WWF can NOT make that claim for any of its PPV’s of this era) plus there were two great matches (Rude/Steamboat and Sting/Cactus Jack) plus one close to great match (Pillman/Flamingo) and the tag team match was pretty good too. The Falls Count Anywhere and 30 Minute Iron Man match alone would have been worth the price of admission.
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 2, 2024 10:08:24 GMT -5
I do believe 1992 was a great year for WCW PPVs.
The Steiners vs Gordy and Williams was a solid bout, but I felt WCW put little hype into this. I don’t recall much PR for it at all. Then again, what could one expect from a company who didn’t have a UK videotape licensee between 1993 and 1997, didn’t bother to do much in Canada once Bret Hart debuted, and who didn’t once tour the UK during the nWo era? Hell, Bulldog signs with WCW in 1998 and you don’t even think Bulldog/Hogan at, say, Wembley is worth exploring? Behind the scenes, WCW were a joke.
Moving on…
Sting vs Cactus Jack was a great bout, I did enjoy the falls count anywhere stipulation. I thought Sting and Cactus had great cnemistry.
Rude vs Steamboat is my match of the card, and I am glad we got to see some decisions within the 30 minutes. Really pisses me off that WM XII’s iron man match featured a grand total of ZERO falls between Bret and Shawn; true, it led to the whole overtime thing and finished the story as expected, but I thought 60 minutes without a fall - not even a DQ or count out - was a bit lame.
I really enjoyed Flyin’ Brian and Jushin Liger. Like Sting and Cactus, those two guys had great chemistry.
I pretty much agree with the rest of your assessment. Oh, and I hated how they changed the name of this PPV to Bash at the Beach. Also, as discussed before, we’ve mentioned the passage of time in wrestling - and change. When this PPV debuted in 1992, who could have imagined that two years later, Hogan would be headlining against Ric Flair?
All in all, a really enjoyable PPV, one of many great ones that year.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jan 2, 2024 10:31:08 GMT -5
I do believe 1992 was a great year for WCW PPVs. The Steiners vs Gordy and Williams was a solid bout, but I felt WCW put little hype into this. I don’t recall much PR for it at all. Then again, what could one expect from a company who didn’t have a UK videotape licensee between 1993 and 1997, didn’t bother to do much in Canada once Bret Hart debuted, and who didn’t once tour the UK during the nWo era? Hell, Bulldog signs with WCW in 1998 and you don’t even think Bulldog/Hogan at, say, Wembley is worth exploring? Behind the scenes, WCW were a joke. Moving on… Sting vs Cactus Jack was a great bout, I did enjoy the falls count anywhere stipulation. I thought Sting and Cactus had great cnemistry. Rude vs Steamboat is my match of the card, and I am glad we got to see some decisions within the 30 minutes. Really pisses me off that WM XII’s iron man match featured a grand total of ZERO falls between Bret and Shawn; true, it led to the whole overtime thing and finished the story as expected, but I thought 60 minutes without a fall - not even a DQ or count out - was a bit lame. I really enjoyed Flyin’ Brian and Jushin Liger. Like Sting and Cactus, those two guys had great chemistry. I pretty much agree with the rest of your assessment. Oh, and I hated how they changed the name of this PPV to Bash at the Beach. Also, as discussed before, we’ve mentioned the passage of time in wrestling - and change. When this PPV debuted in 1992, who could have imagined that two years later, Hogan would be headlining against Ric Flair? All in all, a really enjoyable PPV, one of many great ones that year. Your assessment of WCW sounds right to me. What a dysfunctional company. Luckily, they have a lot of talent on the roster and will be able to put on some great shows in spite of, not because of, management. Not that those on the UK or Canada apparently would be able to view it. Then again, WCW is really too regionally minded. They've got these internationally televised shows on which they keep hyping their house shows in the Omni in Atlanta (which 99% of their audience don't give a cr@p about since they're nowhere near Atlanta), keep mentioning over and over that Marcus Alexander Bagwell is from Sprayberry High School in nearby (nearby to Atlanta, that is, not to 99.5% of the audience) Marietta, Georgia, and have guest hosts like the lead singer from Alabama.
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 2, 2024 12:14:48 GMT -5
Such a narrow mindset, eh? The WWF was a million miles away. I mean, when the WWF soared in popularity here in the UK, we got a tour, a videotape licensee, and PPVs on satellite TV. Meanwhile, WCW gave us…one hour of WCW Worldwide a week. No PPVs here. Just occasional videotape releases from First Independent, who released WCW PPVs (heavily edited!) between 1989 and 1993. You know, even the editors sucked; it wasn’t uncommon for a wrestler to cut a promo for a match later that night - only for the match to not feature on the tape. So you’d have, say, Terrance Taylor hyping up a match, but those who bought the tape didn’t see the match. Just cut the promo out or show the match. ( SuperBrawl III omitted the two tag team matches, by the way). First Independent’s videotape schedule was all over the place. Beach Blast 1993 took place in July of 1993, but the tape was released in the UK in…April 1994, at which point Sid Vicious and Davey Boy Smith, main event participants at that PPV, were gone. And from late 1993 to about early 1997, we didn’t get any tapes at all, I had to use tape traders. Meanwhile, the WWF’s UK licensee, Silver Vision, released regular editions: PPVs, Coliseum re-releases, even UK exclusives. Such a vast, vast gulf between the two. WCW really didn’t grasp merchandising and international sales. Your mention of the Omni and Bagwell’s school are quite revealing, actually, it shows how backwards WCW were. Here’s another example: after WM X, the WWF presented the WrestleMania Revenge Tour. Now, these were just regular shows, but someone was obviously smart enough to realise that the words “WrestleMania Revenge Tour” might, just might, attract more fans. The WWF must have had great marketing and sales people. But not WCW. When Bret Hart debuted, I could have imagined them doing something like the “WCW Canada Tour” or the “Bret Hart Tour”. Did no-one in WCW think about Canada? Finally, action figures: via Hasbro, we got action figures that had some functionality. Sure, you wouldn’t be able to make a Hasbro Bret Hart put the sharpshooter on Hulk Hogan, but there was some mobility - and each figure had an “action feature”. Meanwhile, WCW, via Galoob, gave us solid plastic figures with zero functionality. I mean, how could you make these two figures wrestle: WCW was probably doomed from the start. While the matches are the “end product”, one shouldn’t ignore merchandising, sales, international audiences, etc.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jan 2, 2024 12:36:57 GMT -5
Yeah, WCW was the good ol' boy's rasslin' promotion. Good wrestling but awful business sense and organization. Do those action figures bend at all? If not, they're fairly useless as "action" figures. It looks like the Ron Simmons figure's left arm is molded to his abdoment, but hopefully you can actually move it.
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 2, 2024 12:40:58 GMT -5
Nope, no movement at all, my friend. Solid plastic, zero functionality (WCW in a nutshell).
At least with Hasbro figures, you could have Warrior use the gorilla press on Hogan. Even the LJN figures had some functionality.
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