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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 4, 2019 11:03:48 GMT -5
Well, no one but thousands of lucha libre fans who had already seen Art Barr and Eddie Guerrero do the frog splash, long before RVD started doing it. Barr's was just plain weird....
He really emphasized the frog leg thing. Eddie used to just rocket and emphasize the impact, though it cost him a broken arm, on his WWE debut.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 12:40:21 GMT -5
Thinking more about reality, there are other bugbears I had.
Years ago, Triple H had a match with Jim Ross. The week before, he booked a match - and that was that.
Wrestlers booking matches? Takes me out of the reality. In the vintage programmes I am watching, I can't imagine a wrestler simply booking himself a match. Within the believable context of wrestling, only a booker or promoter should be able to book a match. But Triple H, a wrestler only on screen, booked a match between him and JR.
Makes you wonder why other wrestlers didn't do the same. Why didn't Scotty 2 Hotty simply book himself a world title match, eh?
This gets back to what I said about believable authority figures being paramount.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 15:03:08 GMT -5
Well, no one but thousands of lucha libre fans who had already seen Art Barr and Eddie Guerrero do the frog splash, long before RVD started doing it. Barr's was just plain weird.... He really emphasized the frog leg thing. Eddie used to just rocket and emphasize the impact, though it cost him a broken arm, on his WWE debut. Eddie is too reckless for me and I don't care for Art's neither ... it was not natural for me. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 5, 2019 0:05:23 GMT -5
Art Barr was the best heel in the business, prior to his death. He was massively over in mexico, as a heel and really impressed WCW, at When Worlds Collide. he was set to be back in the US, when he died of a heart attack.
Barr was the son of Sandy barr, an ex-wrestler and Portland referee, who also worked in the office and promoted some of the towns for Don Owens. His older brother Jesse wrestled as Jimmy Jack Fun in the WWF, and under his own name in Portland, Memphis and Florida. Jesse was good; Art was phenomenal. Art was wrestling under his name, when the did an angle where Roddy christened him in a new gimmick, Beetlejuice, who then became one of the top babyfaces and hero to kids. Then, he had a sexual encounter with a 19 year-old ring rat, at the back of the arena. She then filed rape charges. There was a lot of conjecture and the story seemed to be that she was more than interested in sleeping with Barr; but, not having sex in a nack stairwell. There were also questions about whether she was pushed into filing charges by her family. The case was pretty murky, but, Barr admitted that she didn't consent to sex in the stairwell and plea bargained down to First Degree Sexual Assault and got $1000 fine, 2 years probation, 180 hours community service and had to cover all of the woman's medical bills. That sentence wasn't enough to satisfy a Portland journalist who started a crusade against him, claiming his celebrity status and political pull from the promotion kept him out of jail. With Piper's influence, he landed a gig with WCW, as the Juicer, as they liked the gimmick as a way to appeal to kids. He came to the ring with the Juice Patrol, a band of kids who danced with him and wore the same face paint. The journalist repeatedly faxed articles to Turner Broadcasting, pressuring them into firing him. She kept pointing to him dancing with kids. he was never charged with being a pedophile, but he was being painted as one. He was far from innocent; but, the roster was filled with guys with equal, if not worse histories.
Barr ended up in Mexico, as the American Love Machine, where he was a popular technico. In a program with Blue Panther, he lost his mask and became more popular. Then he turned heel and became massively popular. he then orchestrated Eddie Guerrero's heel turn on Hiko del Santo (their fathers had been a legendary tag team and they were in a 2nd generation version). The pair became Los Gringos Loco, with Konan soon joinging them and became the hottest draw in Mexico, as well as their sold out show in Los Angeles, when the WWF and WCW could even half fill an arena there. They main-evented When Worlds Collide, the PPV co-promoted by WCW and were set for big things, when Barr died of a heart attack (due to drug use, among other things).
I can't agree with the label of "reckless" for Eddie. Edie could execute with precision and could work American, Japanese and Lucha styles equally well. He was a heat magnet, but people loved to cheer him, even as a heel. The WWF debut was partly due to a bad landing, which might have been due to the WWF ring size and possibly excitement. Eddie was getting into substance issues, too, which cost him his job, until he got cleaned up and proved that he was past that. Sadly, wrestling clean and real life clean are too different things. He was on steroids and his heart had taken too much, from narcotics and steroids, not to mention accumulated bumps, in a highflying style.
I've seen all of the Guerreros (except Gory) wrestle and Eddie was the best all-around, with Chavo a pretty close second. Hector was the smoothest and most level-headed, while Mando was kind of the utility man, moving in and out as he also did stunt work, in Hollywood, as well as training the original bunch of GLOW performers, for the pilot. Chavo Jr is damn good, not quite up there with Eddie or his father, in terms of charisma and pulling in the crowd; but, similar to hector in being a smooth worker and being pretty level-headed. Chavo Jr trained the Netflix GLOW actresses and lays out the matches, along with the stunt coordinator (and appeared in the season finale, for the second season).
Here's Bar in WCW, as the Juicer, against Moondog Rex (Randy Colley), who was also the original Smash, in Demolition, before Barry Darsow took over.
Here is Roddy Piper dubbing him as Beetlejuice...
Here, vs rival Blue Panther, in AAA, in 1993. Watch the third fall, especially. Barr executes a double turn. Going into the match, he was the technico or babyface, and Blue Panther was the top rudo, or heel. Barr pushes the rules, here and there; but, within the realm of a fiery babyface comeback. However, he pulls up Blue Panther from a pin attempt, waves his finger and says not just yet. He turns full on heel and Blue Panther gets cheers for battling through. When the match was over, Barr was hated and Blue Panther was a hero. This was the dawn of Los Gringos Locos.
Barr's second is Perro Aguayo, who was the "Dusty Rhodes of Mexico." He was a people's working class champion, who bled buckets of blood and whose forehead rivaled Abdullah the Butcher. Blue Panther's second is Fishman. Aguayo tries to stop Barr's heelish tactics and finally intervenes. Barr seals his turn by attacking and bloodying Aguayo, while Fishman jumps in to attack his rival. Panther rescues Aguayo, sealing his face turn.
Now, here is the birth of Los Gringos Locos. Eddie, Art Barr and Hijo del Santo are in a trios match (six-man tag team), against Blue Panther, Fishman and Fuerza Guerrera (father of Juventud Guerrera). Barr is wearing the do-rag because of the loss of the mask vs hair match with Blue Panther. In the third fall, watch what Barr does to get Eddie to turn on Hijo del Santo. Eddie became the second most hated man in Mexico, with the Barr the numero uno.
From there, they launched a reign of terror, accompanied by Konnan, who also became a heel and tore through AAA, leading to the match against Octagon and Hijo del Santo, at When World's Collide, in a hair vs mask match. In the midst of their heel run, they worked a show in Vancouver, WA, for Barr's father, where they were managed by Tonya Harding. Harding was denied a manager's license and was barred from being at ringside, legit, as Washington had a tough athletic commission. They set up a chair outside the prescribed limit and she had to participate from there, which got more than a bit silly...
(Warning, handheld amateur filming)
This featured AAA talent, and Bruiser Brian Cox, a Portland wrestler. The match made national news, as I read about it in my local paper, in Springfield, IL.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 5, 2019 0:45:20 GMT -5
ps on't get me wrong about the charges against Barr; he admitted it wasn't consensual, which is rape, pure and simple. However, there were some many murky stories surrounding this episode that it is really hard to get to the truth. Barr later said he would have fought in court had he got better legal advice, but the plea bargain brought no jail time, so he went for it. Rape cases are never pretty and too often the victim gets painted as a tease and other things and the woman in question supposedly had a history with wrestlers, as what is known to wrestlers as a "ring rat;" a groupie.
Most rats exchanged sexual favors for being able to get close to the wrestlers and the excitement, just like rock groupies. Many also provided places to stay, rather than a hotel, cooked for th wrestlers, did domestic chores for them and such. It could be an exploitative relationship or a real friendship, depending on those involved. Many were underaged, depending on territories (Memphis was notorious for underage girls, including Stacy "Kat" Carter, the ex-Mrs Jerry Lawler, per one wrestler, who claimed Lawler met her when she was 13). Some, like Missy Hyatt, even ended up in the business. She supposedly had an encounter with Tommy Rich, when she was a teenager and then later became the girlfriend of John Tatum, accompanying him to Dallas and Mid-South, as a valet. However, she could do decent promos and played a snotty, rich girl, which fans hated. In the UWF, Eddie Gilbert booked a merger between her stable and his, as Hot Stuff and Hyatt, Intl. He then wormed his way into her real relationship and Tatum ended up out and she and Gilbert married. They eventually divorced and Missy had several relationships with wrestlers, other athletes (Mark Gastineau, of the NY Jets) and actors (Jason hervey, of the Wonder Years, who was 9 years her junior).
There are a lot of scumbags in wrestling, just as in Hollywood. Many wrestlers partook of the rat scene, while leaving wives and kids at home. Wrestlers Bruiser Bob Sweetan and Buck Rock N Roll Zumhofe were both convicted of molesting their own children/stepchildren. The WWF was rocked with a scandal involving Terry garvin and Mel phillips, two behind-the-scenes people who molested or made sexual advances to ring boys (young men who worked ringside, bringing the wrestlers robes and jackets to the back. There were implications of sexual harassment to get a spot on the card. Barry Orton, uncle to Randy and brother to Bob orton Jr, has alleged that Pat Patterson and Garvin promised him a push if he slept with either, though his accusations against Patterson were never corroborated and others suggest it was sour grapes and that Patterson had a long time partner (not Steve Lombardi, as some rumors have stated). Vince McMahon was accused of assaulting female ring announcer Mike (Michael Kathleen) McGuirk, though she has refuted the accusations.
Dick Slater stabbed his former girlfriend, with a butcher knife, in 2004. he claimed he was under the influence of painkillers, though he had a history of abusive behavior. In the UWF, he dated valet/manager Dark Journey and had a fight with her and left her stranded, without a ride, to the arena for a show. Sting gave her a ride and was beat up by Slater when he saw him come in with her..
Lex Lugar carried on an affair with Miss Elizabeth, while he was married and put her up in a place near his. His wife divorced him and he moved Elizabeth in. He was arrested for domestic violence, when police were called to his house and found a bruised Elizabeth. He claimed that she was tripped up by his dog, in the driveway, after walking it. He was arrested and charged with possession of steroids, which were found in the house (what a surprise). Both he and Elizabeth were using painkillers, alcohol and other drugs and she became unresponsive, one night and he made a pleading call to 911, but she was pronounced dead.
Jake Roberts has a long history, which he blames on his father, Grizzly Smith, stating that his mother was the underaged daughter of Grizzly's girlfriend and that Grizzly raped her. He had a long history of problems with his father and others and drug and alcohol abuse, plus animal cruelty.
Abdullah the Butcher bladed Canadian wrestler Devon Nicholson, aka Hannibal, in Puerto Rico, as well as himself. Abdullah was secretly Hepatitis C positive and Nicholson's blood mixed with Abdullah's and he also became Hep C positive, which cost him a WWE contract. He sued Abdullah in court and won a big judgement; but, Abdullah declared bankruptcy to avoid paying the judgement.
We all know about Chris Benoit.
You can go on and on. Wrestling has drawn a lot of messed up people to it, just like rock n roll and Hollywood. People seeking fame are rarely well balanced. In Barr's case, the question becomes were his sins any worse than the others already working there and who continued to work there? In part, he was released because booker Ole Anderson felt he was too small and the heat on him just made it easy to get rid of him. By 1994, though, he was one of the top heels in the world and was no smaller than established main event stars, like Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart. Friends have said his drug problems were due to depression and loneliness, as his family, including his son, were in the US, while he was working in mexico. He drowned his sorrows in alcohol and drugs. When World's Collide had him set to return to the US. Could he have gotten clean? Would he have been a star? I believe he would have been as big as Eddie, had he lived and probably would have been the breakout star, of the pair. Eddie always attributed his success to what he learned from Barr and his low rider, in the WWE, was known as the Love Machine, in tribute to Barr.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 9:26:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the historical context as ever, Cody. The only Mexican event I've seen is AAA When Worlds Collide (tape trading back in the 90s). And matches on WWF/WWE DVDs.
I watched Hulk Hogan VS One Man Gang on the Network last night (December 5th, 1987).
It's the usual Hogan formula. But I like how they did it. OMG was presented as an unstoppable force. And as we've been discussing announcer and promoter credibility recently, I'd like to point out that the commentators were putting forward the view that OMG could seriously walk away with the WWF Championship. It's little things like that which enhance a match. In a more naive era (well, some of us were naive, I still am!), the commentators did make us think this could be Hogan's last time as champion.
Like I said, it followed a formula. This isn't always a bad thing. After all, the James Bond films can and often have followed a formula. It's why we see them. A formula can work.
Sure, it's nice when they deviate from a formula. When Hogan fought Stan Hansen in Japan (1990, I think), I loved seeing Hogan showcase his wrestling side more than his showmanship side. A deviation can be good, but sometimes a formula is what brought someone to the dance. After Hogan pinned One Man Gang, the crowd certainly loved it. And that's what counts.
So, about formulas, aren't most, if not all, wrestlers formulaic? Bret Hart and Ric Flair, to name two, unveiled the same moves, sometimes in the same order, time and time again - and I never thought badly of that. At the same time, the likes of Vader and Steve Williams didn't seem to follow a formula. They had their signature moves, but seemed to go with the flow a bit more.
Formulaic or non-formulaic, I guess wrestling has room for both.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 5, 2019 18:04:08 GMT -5
Thanks for the historical context as ever, Cody. The only Mexican event I've seen is AAA When Worlds Collide (tape trading back in the 90s). And matches on WWF/WWE DVDs. I watched Hulk Hogan VS One Man Gang on the Network last night (December 5th, 1987). It's the usual Hogan formula. But I like how they did it. OMG was presented as an unstoppable force. And as we've been discussing announcer and promoter credibility recently, I'd like to point out that the commentators were putting forward the view that OMG could seriously walk away with the WWF Championship. It's little things like that which enhance a match. In a more naive era (well, some of us were naive, I still am!), the commentators did make us think this could be Hogan's last time as champion. Like I said, it followed a formula. This isn't always a bad thing. After all, the James Bond films can and often have followed a formula. It's why we see them. A formula can work. Sure, it's nice when they deviate from a formula. When Hogan fought Stan Hansen in Japan (1990, I think), I loved seeing Hogan showcase his wrestling side more than his showmanship side. A deviation can be good, but sometimes a formula is what brought someone to the dance. After Hogan pinned One Man Gang, the crowd certainly loved it. And that's what counts. So, about formulas, aren't most, if not all, wrestlers formulaic? Bret Hart and Ric Flair, to name two, unveiled the same moves, sometimes in the same order, time and time again - and I never thought badly of that. At the same time, the likes of Vader and Steve Williams didn't seem to follow a formula. They had their signature moves, but seemed to go with the flow a bit more. Formulaic or non-formulaic, I guess wrestling has room for both. Only problem with the WWF formula of the era was that it ate up opponents for Hogan and didn't really set up for a return, down the road. Once Hogan defeated OMG, that was it and he was soon repackaged as Akeem the African dream ,as a rib on Dusty Rhodes (The American Dream; funky white guy). I first saw Gang when he was Crusher broomfield, in the Poffo ICW outlaw promotion. He was Randy Savage's thug, until he was emancipated by Ronnie "One Man Gang" Garvin. Grey then fought Ernie Ladd and Randy, for the title, before moving on to other places (including Memphis), then was dubbed the One Man Gang (with Ronnie Garvin's approval. he worked Dallas and Mid-South and was put over as a serious monster. Gray could work, for a big guy, and put on great matches. Here he is against Big Cat Ernie Ladd... One Man Gang defending the UWF title, against Ted DiBiase. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 18:18:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the links!
I feel OMG had a ring presence. As did a lot of guys back then, I guess. I suppose working territories and learning your craft was a thing back then.
The "feed villains to Hogan" formula did get old - and I say that as an eternal Hulkamaniac. I mean, it kind of ruined things a little in WCW. He decimated Flair in '94 - and then was fed the likes of Avalanche, Kevin Sullivan, all 32,000 members of the Dungeon of Doom, etc. And then the Giant. And then that bizarre cage match at Uncensored 1996.
I can't help but imagine a parallel universe where 1994 Hogan "passed the torch" to someone like Stunning Steve Austin.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 5, 2019 18:49:34 GMT -5
ps The WWF never really showed what DiBiase could do. He had suffered severe neck injury in All Japan (where he was part of a tremendous tag-team, with Stan Hansen); so he was more limited in what he could do. He got to show his work in a few matches; but, it wasn't the DiBiase of old.
DiBiase had been groomed from a young age to be a potential NWA World Champion. He worked St Louis, where he became Missouri Champion, which was a sort of blessing that you could be a furue champion. He worked georgia, on WTBS and Mid-South and had a terrific tv match, against Flair, where Dick Murdoch, his supposed friend, laid him out and he still came back to battle Flair for the NWA World title
A heel, in Georgia, against the masked Mr R (allegedly the suspended Tommy "Wildfire" Rich)...
You can also see the young Road Warriors there.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 19:41:44 GMT -5
Ted made a name for himself with All Japan Pro Wrestling, National Wrestling Alliance, and bits of pieces with WWF and WCW. My beef against him in WCW when he was part of the NWO faction. He was an excellent Manager and did well with IRS and Money Incorporation and all that. I wished he gotten more championships and was groomed to be one. I just had a hard time dealing with him; the Million Dollar Dollar Belt, and the way he handled Virgil. He was a tremendous personality and no question about it. I'm so surprised to see that he never won the Intercontinental Belt nor a belt in World Championship Wrestling neither. I'm really puzzled by him and him alone.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 5, 2019 19:54:42 GMT -5
Here is the debut of The Road Warrior, in Georgia, in 1983... Yep, at first, it was just Joe Laurinaitis, as The Road Warrior (singular). he stunk up the joint, but had a couple of matches. Arn Anderson and Matt Borne were set to become the National Tag-Team Champions, under Precious Paul Ellering, until Borne's drug issues got him fired, which costArn his job, soon after, as Ole didn't know what to do with him. I think this was the debut for the pair, as Mike Hegstrand joined Laurinaitis, after working in Vancouver, for Al Tomko, as Crusher Von Haig. Ole needed a partner for Joe and Joe suggested Mike, who had gone back to Minneapolis (both were trained by Minnesota indie promoter and trainer Ed Sharkey, along with Rick Rude and Barry Darsow). Hegstrand came to Georgia and they were made the National Tag-Team champions (belts last held by the Samoans, before they went back to the WWF to be their champions). They were pretty much the drizzling s@#$s, so they were told to just go out there and beat up their opponents. It got to the point that some guys would see that they had to work with them and would grab their bag and head out the door (or so the story goes..). At this point, they looked more Tom of Finland, than Mad Max. Soon, they had an accident with hair clippers and tripped into a make-up display, at a department store..... The angle with Ellering seemed to be that Ole felt they could talk well enough, even if they couldn't work, yet. So, they fired Ellering, to show that they were crazy and out of control. they were getting huge pops from crowds, so they were pretty much "'tweeners." By the way, that's my brother" Mike in there, getting pummeled.  This features an interview with Pro Wrestling Illustrated's Craig Peters & Bill Apter... The Apter Mags put the Road Warriors over huge (pls national exposure on cable). They feuded with the Sawyers (Buzz and Bret), the Briscos (who were World Tag champs, in Mid-Atlantic and part owners in Georgia), and then King Kong Bundy & Masked Superstar (Bill Eadie, the future Demolition Ax). They soon moved on to the AWA, where they beat Baron Von Raschke and the Crusher for the titles. Crusher and Raschke weren't young, which showed how the AWA had fallen, with the loss of Hogan. the Road Warriors livened things up, as they came in as heels, but the crowd made them babyfaces, and they soon fought the Freebirds. They also started in All Japan, at this time, starting a long association with Giant Baba. They were made the International Tag-Team Champions and held them for some time, even bring the belts with them when they left the AWA and started working for Crockett. here is their introduction to the Japanese audience... They built a legacy of just beating the hell out of people and entertaining us with their promos. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 5, 2019 19:58:45 GMT -5
ps Nobody took an ass-whooping like the Mulkey Brothers; two pasty white jobbers for Crockett. However, they did the job so well, Crockett threw 'em a bone...
I laughed my head off, when that first aired.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 20:27:03 GMT -5
Loved the Road Warriors and the Legion of Doom. My favorite tag team of all time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 3:44:18 GMT -5
Absence did make the heart grow fonder when the LOD/Road Warriors were absent. A frustrating thing in the pre-Google age was wrestlers disappearing - and the WWF not explaining it. Sure, the Apter mags would, but they were sporadic. PWI was on most shelves each month, but distribution of Sports Review Wrestling or Inside Wrestling was sporadic. So when the LOD vanished after SummerSlam 1992, I was left wondering why. Obviously, WWF publications would not say why. Same with Warlord, Davey Boy Smith, Mountie and Warrior in late 1992. I suppose only insider newsletters had the answers then. It was great to see the Road Warriors back on my screens in WCW, circa 1996. Thing is, between 1992 and 1996, whatever matches they had weren't shown here in the UK or on VHS. Different world, eh? For me, their mystique got destroyed when Degeneration X pummelled them in late 1997. Seeing the Road Warriors beaten like that shocked me. Anyone remember this Nintendo game?  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 4:40:04 GMT -5
Absence did make the heart grow fonder when the LOD/Road Warriors were absent. For me, their mystique got destroyed when Degeneration X pummelled them in late 1997. Seeing the Road Warriors beaten like that shocked me. I know how you feel about the LOD/Road Warriors and to me they were the best thing ever happen to Pro Wrestling and both WCW and WWF did not respect them and that's why WWF created Demolition to replace them. That DX match was so one-sided and that the time I was fed up with that group DX and that fueled my hatred toward Shawn Michaels and the rest of them. That's why I have no love for WWF at the time and focus my attention to ECW instead. You were shocked to see LOD/Road Warriors like that ... to me it is so disrespectful that I just got more madder at Triple H, Shawn, Road Dogg, Chyna, and Billy Gunn all members of DX and I do not want any part of it. I did not watch much Raw and Smackdown when DX is running wild and all that. To me, DX is a stupid thing that WWF ever did and I just don't care for it at all. |
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