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Post by driver1980 on May 6, 2024 12:18:22 GMT -5
You’re right in how predictable it makes things. I did like how the 1993 KOTR had two faces go against each other, Bret vs. Mr Perfect. But off the top of my head, the PPV KOTR never had a heel vs heel bout (untelevised KOTR events did, such as IRS vs. Berzerker in 1991). In 1994, something like Bam Bam Bigelow vs. IRS might have been fun. Or a face vs face encounter such as Tatanka vs. Razor Ramon. Just to shake it up a bit. We like face vs face and heel vs heel encounters in the Royal Rumble, so why not at KOTR? It was often the same in other WWF tournaments, such as the 1990 Intercontinental Championship tournament, or 1995’s WWF Tag Team Championship tournament. Not always, of course, but often. I like heel vs heel bouts because of the novelty. But it’s also fun to be torn over who to root for. I mean, I was rooting for Power and Glory when they battled the Orient Express in 1991, because while they were bad guys, Mr Fuji was a real heel, and I wanted to see Hercules and Roma win. Having a heel vs heel dynamic in any kind of tournament could also allow some fun booking regarding torn loyalties. Imagine if back in the day, two of Jimmy Hart’s wrestlers had found themselves facing off in a tournament. Or something like that. As far as heel vs. heel bouts, I really enjoyed the Shawn Michaels vs Ric Martel at Summerslam 1992. It was fun seeing both guys cheating - yet also trying to abide by the "no hitting the face" rule they had agreed to. That was a fun bout for all the reasons you describe. I remember a Bastion Booger vs Rick Martel match where Martel was repulsed by Booger.  Repo Man vs. Papa Shango was a peculiar bout (I was rooting for Repo Man). I’ve mentioned The Quebecers vs. Bam Bam Bigelow & Adam Bomb. I think it was untelevised. I just want to know what Johnny Polo was doing, given he managed The Quebecers and Bomb. Did he cheer both teams on? Shift allegiance for one match? Go on strike? Sit down and just wish the better man to win? I used to like some of the Rumble promos between heels. Earthquake and Dino Bravo did one in 1990, and Earthquake said, “No-one is safe, everyone is going out!” Erm, what about your friend Dino Bravo? And a later promo (same event) had Bravo looking at Quake and saying, “The last man will be there at the end…standing by himself!” Another one I remember (1990) was when Andre, Rick Rude, Haku and Bobby Heenan began bickering over ‘every man for himself’. Starrcade ‘89 is a good PPV for heel vs heel and face vs face bouts as it features round robin tournaments for the singles and tag divisions. So we saw heel vs heel matches such as Lex Luger vs. Great Muta, and Doom vs. The New Wild Samoans. |
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Post by Batflunkie on May 6, 2024 12:47:49 GMT -5
Starrcade ‘89 is a good PPV for heel vs heel and face vs face bouts as it features round robin tournaments for the singles and tag divisions. So we saw heel vs heel matches such as Lex Luger vs. Great Muta, and Doom vs. The New Wild Samoans. A good number of the Starrcade 89 matches are on the "Starrcade: The Essentials Collection" that I picked up yesterday, namely Road Warriors vs the Steiner Brothers and Sting vs Flair and Muta. Plan on watching some of it tonight |
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Post by driver1980 on May 6, 2024 13:03:23 GMT -5
Let us know what you think! It’s one of my favourite WCW PPVs.
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Post by Batflunkie on May 6, 2024 13:06:38 GMT -5
Let us know what you think! It’s one of my favourite WCW PPVs. I haven't watched much of pre-90's wrestling, so it should be entertaining at least |
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Post by Batflunkie on May 6, 2024 15:04:51 GMT -5
This is absolutely ridiculous and I love it
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Post by dbutler69 on May 6, 2024 15:48:26 GMT -5
As far as heel vs. heel bouts, I really enjoyed the Shawn Michaels vs Ric Martel at Summerslam 1992. It was fun seeing both guys cheating - yet also trying to abide by the "no hitting the face" rule they had agreed to. That was a fun bout for all the reasons you describe. I remember a Bastion Booger vs Rick Martel match where Martel was repulsed by Booger. Repo Man vs. Papa Shango was a peculiar bout (I was rooting for Repo Man). I’ve mentioned The Quebecers vs. Bam Bam Bigelow & Adam Bomb. I think it was untelevised. I just want to know what Johnny Polo was doing, given he managed The Quebecers and Bomb. Did he cheer both teams on? Shift allegiance for one match? Go on strike? Sit down and just wish the better man to win? I used to like some of the Rumble promos between heels. Earthquake and Dino Bravo did one in 1990, and Earthquake said, “No-one is safe, everyone is going out!” Erm, what about your friend Dino Bravo? And a later promo (same event) had Bravo looking at Quake and saying, “The last man will be there at the end…standing by himself!” Another one I remember (1990) was when Andre, Rick Rude, Haku and Bobby Heenan began bickering over ‘every man for himself’. Starrcade ‘89 is a good PPV for heel vs heel and face vs face bouts as it features round robin tournaments for the singles and tag divisions. So we saw heel vs heel matches such as Lex Luger vs. Great Muta, and Doom vs. The New Wild Samoans. Bastion Booger vs Rick Martel? That would be hilarious! Yes, it would be nicxe to see that Quebecers vs. Bigelow/Bomb match just to see what Johnny Polo did. If he was smart, he sided with the Quebecers. And yes, the Royal Rumble promos could be fun as allies/friends would sometimes argue over what would happen if it came down to the two of them. Remember when the Nasty Boys got numbers 1 and 2 at one Royal Rumble? |
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Post by driver1980 on May 6, 2024 17:23:31 GMT -5
Are you thinking of Demolition Ax and Smash, my friend? They drew numbers 1 and 2 in 1989.
And yes, allies/friends having conflicts in the Rumble was fun (and something modern Rumbles back, they are often a succession of entrances and eliminations, with the story only being about the last 3-4 participants).
I loved some of the stuff in 1992, such as Ric Flair giving the Barbarian a high five after some teamwork - and then slapping his chest. Not a wise strategy against the Barbarian.
I loved how Ted DiBiase and Randy Savage worked together in 1990. Savage saved DiBiase at one point, and Schiavone said to Ventura, “Jesse, if it’s every man for himself, why would he save DiBiase? He’s been paid off! He has to have been paid off!”
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Post by driver1980 on May 6, 2024 17:25:12 GMT -5
Great collection here:
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Post by codystarbuck on May 6, 2024 20:14:26 GMT -5
Thanks. It was one detail I wasn’t sure about. By the way, when I said I’d seen the Von Erich/Fiair bout, I can’t swear it was complete. It’s not a long match, but it may have been joined in progress on one of those compilation tapes. I believe it was only highlights, on the PWI Lords of the Ring tape and I can't if the Kerry vs Flair match is included, in its entirety on any WWE dvd sets. I looked at the listings on the two bi Flair ones and they have bouts from 1982, and the World Class DVD also has another Flair & Kerry match. I only saw highlights on World Class tv programs, both the syndicated show and the ESPN rebroadcasts, later. The match is listed on wikipedia (for what its worth) as being 11:24. Thus, I think mostly what was cut in places it was shown were entrances and some trims here and there in the match. Flair and Kerry had longer bouts; but, given the heat that day, they might have called for a shorter match. I wouldn't be surprised if Flair didn't trust Kerry to be focused enough for more than 15 minutes. Kerry, at that point, was a great worker, when his head was in the ring and Flair could usually lead him to really great matches. I would guess heat and number of matches might have worked towards keeping it short; plus the tribute stuff. If memory serves, Chris was out there, too, ringside, for the 6-man match, where Fritz substituted for Kerry. Not that way in the movie, since he didn't exist (nor Kerry's family, nor David's, nor Mike's, etc, etc....). |
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Post by codystarbuck on May 6, 2024 20:48:00 GMT -5
I had the top two and might have had the Main Event magazine. The ironic part about those magazines was that he had already lost the belt in Japan, by the time they hit the newsstands, due to the lead time for the magazines. We didn't have the World Class program but were briefly getting the Kansas City All-Star Wrestling and the June 6, 1984 show (featuring Barry Windham in action, which was the first time I got to see him wrestle) announced that he had won the title; but, he had also already lost it. The tape was just done that far in advance before being bicycled to stations. The PWI issue does cover the fact that he had already lost the title and included a run down of his matches as champion, including in Florida, Texas and Japan. He had 4 rematches with Flair, in Texas and one defense against Terry Gordy; 8 defenses in Florida (Mike Rotundo-2, Ron Bass-2, Black Bart-1, Superstar Billy Graham-3) and 2 in Japan (one against Jumbo Tsuruta and the title switch with Flair, in Yokosuka). That issue also cover Rick Martel's defeat of Jumbo Tsuruta, for the AWA World title, which was on May 13. You can read it and a bunch of other PWI issues, other Apter mags, and several other wrestling magazines on the Internet Archive. They even have some issues of Wrestling Eye, which was my favorite, because it wasn't completely kayfabe, like the Apter mags; and, covered more independent promotions and stars and more international. They talked about shoot names and previous gimmicks, reasons behind certain title changes, etc. Not quite pure shoot, but far closer than the Apter mags and none of the ridiculous stuff, like the view-phone one-on-ones or the fake columnists or "apartment wrestling" (though they did have adds for catfight and female vs male domination matches). Wrestling's Main Event was edited by George Napolitano, who was the big ringside photographer in the Northeast and his magazines always had a lot of WWF imagery. He put out 2 or 3 books of his photos, including one that was more of a guide to various stars. I had a paperback copy and used to write in their shoot names, once I learned them. Norm Keitzer published a lot of the older magazines and had stuff from Napolitano and Jim Cornette's photos and articles, plus he did programs for several promotions. I think Heyman contributed a bit to his magazines, possibly Napolitano's, too. Mike O'Hara published several, over the years, including New Wave Wrestling, as well as Combat Sports Monthly newsletter, which also included Roller Derby and roller games stuff (they were two competing roller derby promotions). |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2024 22:19:34 GMT -5
I'm predicting Gunther will win the King of the Ring...and the rumour mill is already predicting he will dethrone Cody, most likely at WM41
Not sure about Queen just yet....
I nominate Dragunov for worst haircut on WWE....and can see him joining Imperium.
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Post by commond on May 7, 2024 3:04:54 GMT -5
You can watch the entire Kerry vs. Flair match on YouTube.
EDIT: Oops, I take that back. It's the clipped version. It says it's presented in the most complete form possible due to technical difficulties.
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Post by driver1980 on May 7, 2024 6:13:01 GMT -5
On this day 35 years ago, WrestleWar '89: Music City Showdown took place on PPV, in the Nashville Municipal Auditorium:  This was the card: The Great Muta VS Doug Gilbert Butch Reed VS Ranger Ross Dick Murdoch VS Bob Orton Jr. in a Bullrope Match The Dynamic Dudes VS The Samoan SWAT Team NWA United States Heavyweight Champion Lex Luger VS Michael Hayes NWA World Television Champion Sting VS The Iron Sheik NWA World Heavyweight Champion Ricky Steamboat VS Ric Flair NWA World Tag Team Champions The Varsity Club (Steve Williams & Mike Rotunda VS The Road Warriors NWA United States Tag Team Champions Eddie Gilbert & Rick Steiner VS The Varsity Club (Kevin Sullivan & Dan Spivey) This was a pretty good card, and when you look at who was on it, there was certainly variety, with perhaps something for everyone. |
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Post by codystarbuck on May 7, 2024 10:29:24 GMT -5
You can watch the entire Kerry vs. Flair match on YouTube. EDIT: Oops, I take that back. It's the clipped version. It says it's presented in the most complete form possible due to technical difficulties. Which probably explains why no one seems to have shown an entire version. Some of the other matches have some so-so camera work, compared to their usual stuff, in the Sportatorium. Might have had issues with the set-up, in the stadium, like they did at Live Aid. |
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Post by codystarbuck on May 7, 2024 10:31:27 GMT -5
1984 was an interesting year, for wrestling; all three major titles changed hands and young(ish) champions; increased cable expansion, the WWF moving outside their traditional borders, then Black Saturday and the responses to it.
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