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Post by driver1980 on May 16, 2024 6:13:58 GMT -5
Last night, I read how Sgt. Slaughter has stated that he was set to be the original partner for Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania I. I have never read or heard that until now. Does anybody know if there’s any truth to that?
Logically, I’m not sure the show could have attracted outside interest without a major TV star like Mister T, so I’m not sure if there’s any truth to it.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on May 16, 2024 14:27:39 GMT -5
I've never heard that before. Slaughter was gone by December 84, so he couldn't have even been a "plan B". Mr. T was obviously the first and really only choice, for all the eyeballs he would bring to the WWF. Slaughter was hugely popular in 84 though. A Hogan/Slaughter super team would've been cool as a one off against, say, Sheik and Volkoff
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Post by driver1980 on May 16, 2024 14:54:37 GMT -5
That’d be my view, too.
It’s hard to comprehend some of what I read. A few months ago, I read that the original plan for the Royal Rumble ‘94 was for the Undertaker to beat Yokozuna for the WWF Championship - and then defend against Lex Luger at WM X.
I don’t buy that. One, babyface vs babyface bouts - especially for a world title - were rare then; two, how would Bret have factored into that; three, I’m certain that the idea was for Yokozuna to be toppled, by either Luger or Bret. I cannot comprehend a WWF where Undertaker is battling either Bret or Lex at WM X. So I’m not sure how true that is, and this is the first time I’ve read it.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 16, 2024 22:16:58 GMT -5
I've never heard that before. Slaughter was gone by December 84, so he couldn't have even been a "plan B". Mr. T was obviously the first and really only choice, for all the eyeballs he would bring to the WWF. Slaughter was hugely popular in 84 though. A Hogan/Slaughter super team would've been cool as a one off against, say, Sheik and Volkoff Yeah, Slaughter was working for the AWA (and still had the GI JOE gig) in 1985. His closest match to Wrestlemania's date was as a tag team partner to Crusher Blackwell, against Masa Saito, King Tonga and Masked Superstar, in Denver, CO. He worked for the AWA, for the entire year, while also doing a few shorts for Portland, one of the UWF's big shows, and some Pro Wrestling USA cooperative matches, as well as multiple shots for Crockett, in the Mid-Atlantic areas (Pennsylvania, Maryland and New Jersey), as well as other Pro Wrestling USA events. Slaughter had the Americas title, which was created to be a gimmick for him. The only other person to hold it was Larry Zbyszko, when it was created (supposed win in Mexico......which imagine Larry in Mexico, in the mid-80s) and then dropped to Slaughter, who held it until he left the AWA, in 1986 and it was never mentioned again. Given the fact he still won't admit to having never served in the Armed Forces, in any capacity, I am starting to think he took too many bumps, as well as spent too many years, later, in Vince's revisionist fantasy land. Hell, he might actually believe that GI JOE was a real Army unit and, therefore, he was a Marine DI. Maybe Cobra explains why he became a turncoat, in the 90s. Had Wrestlemania occurred in 1984, before he left, I might buy it, as he was right behind Hogan, as a draw.
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Post by driver1980 on May 17, 2024 4:09:55 GMT -5
I can sort of understand Slaughter keeping to the story in the kayfabe/GI Joe era, but in the modern era, there’s no excuse. I probably read the same stolen valour article as you did, codystarbuck . Very vague, very contradictory and all over the place. A simple “I never served in the USMC” should surely suffice. One article I read stated he’d claimed to have been a drill instructor in 1966. He was born in 1948. He’d have been 18 in 1966. Can anyone even be a drill instructor at that age? That aside, in this era of podcasts and a lack of kayfabe, surely he should just be truthful. I have seen some flippant comments about this issue, e.g. “The Undertaker isn’t a real undertaker, either.” No, and he never claimed to be, but the article I read about Slaughter claimed he’s not set the record straight in countless kayfabe-free interviews.
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Post by commond on May 17, 2024 5:38:08 GMT -5
I read some articles where Slaughter said on a podcast that the original plan for WrestleMania was to have Hogan vs. Slaughter as the main event. The way Slaughter tells it, Vince tried to dangle WrestleMania as a carrot for him to renege on his Hasbro deal. Wrestlers making a living out of spinning stories, and we love it when they do it in promos, but Slaughter did leave the WWF in December of '84, so when people say Slaughter left in '84 and WrestleMania was in '85, that's not damning evidence. Also bear in mind, that the plans for these sort of cards change constantly. It's possible that Slaughter is telling the truth based on something he heard. I actually think Slaughter vs. Hogan would have been better than the tag match.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 17, 2024 10:39:27 GMT -5
I can sort of understand Slaughter keeping to the story in the kayfabe/GI Joe era, but in the modern era, there’s no excuse. I probably read the same stolen valour article as you did, codystarbuck . Very vague, very contradictory and all over the place. A simple “I never served in the USMC” should surely suffice. One article I read stated he’d claimed to have been a drill instructor in 1966. He was born in 1948. He’d have been 18 in 1966. Can anyone even be a drill instructor at that age? That aside, in this era of podcasts and a lack of kayfabe, surely he should just be truthful. I have seen some flippant comments about this issue, e.g. “The Undertaker isn’t a real undertaker, either.” No, and he never claimed to be, but the article I read about Slaughter claimed he’s not set the record straight in countless kayfabe-free interviews. No, I didn't read any "stolen valor" article. I've known for years that he wasn't a Marine, going back to his days in the Carolinas, before going to the WWF. For one thing, you could tell by the way he talked that he had only seen it in movies and never experienced it. Allegedly, his father was a Marine; but, I haven't seen any definitive proof of that, beyond his statements. I have no problem with him playing a military character, as a gimmick; I have a problem of him still trying to cling to that fantasy when wrestling gave that up years ago. I have a bigger problem with him claiming gimmick infringement about someone who actually served and is doing a similar gimmick. They earned the right to the gimmick, more than he did, regardless of how well he did it. I can see talk of Slaughter and Hogan in early to mid 1984, but not so much late 1984, particularly after the Cyndi Lauper angles drew so much attention.
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Post by driver1980 on May 17, 2024 10:46:55 GMT -5
I feel a better time for Hogan and Slaughter to have teamed up would have been after Slaughter turned babyface in late 1991. Something like Hulk Hogan & Sgt. Slaughter VS The Undertaker & Jake Roberts might have been fun (on Saturday Night’s Main Event, for instance).
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Post by dbutler69 on May 17, 2024 13:16:01 GMT -5
I watched Clash of the Champions 28 from August, 1994. Okay, so the main event here is supposed to be a rematch between Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair for the WCW championship.
We have Tony Schiavone and Bobby Heenan calling the action with Gene Okerlund doing interviews.
First match is Special Tag Team Feature: The Nasty Boys v. Pretty Wonderful
Pretty Wonderful are the champs and this is a non-title match but if the Nasties win they get a title shot.
This was not a very good match, and the ending was terrible. The Nasties win when Sags does the elbow drop off the middle ropes and covers Orndorff for the pin, in spite of the fact that Sags wasn’t the legal man. Oh, and Orndorff wasn’t the legal man either. Unbelievably stupid and no reason or excuse for the ref to count that, but WCW seems to have an anything goes and anybody can pin anybody and it still counts attitude when it comes to tag team matches.
Next, Hogan is coming out to the platform with Gene Okerlund for an interview when someone in a black costume & mask runs out, smashes Hogan in the knee with a metal pipe, then runs off. Hogan is yelling “oh my knee” over and over in some of the worst acting I’ve ever seen. At least he’s got Gene Okerlund to keep him company in the bad acting department here. They spend way too long on this segment, showing Hogan being tended to and taken in an ambulance to a nearby hospital. I don’t know how long this went on for, but it was way too long.
Next match is US title: Stunning Steve Austin (champ) v. Ricky Steamboat
They even have a split screen during this match showing the ambulance going to the hospital while this match is going on!! Yes, I’d rather watch an ambulance drive down the street than watch Steve Austin vs. Ricky Steamboat.
Next match is Terry Funk & Bunkhouse Buck v. Dustin Rhodes & Dusty Rhodes.
This was on okay match. The Rhodeses win by DQ when Arn Anderson (who had cheapshotted Dustin on the outside of the ring a minute earlier) comes into the ring and blatantly interferes. Kind of a dumb ending. No reason for him to do that, since it’s not like Dusty was about to score the win or something. Anyway, like I said, this was on okay match. Dusty was clearly past his prime, but they did keep up a good pace in this match, with Dustin doing the heavy lifting for Team Rhodes. This was yet another WCW tag team match where they pay no attention whatsoever to who the legal man is. Can’t they at least pretend to adhere to some rules? Why should I care otherwise?
Flair in an interview demands that Hogan walk to the arena and hand him the belt personally. Good stuff by Flair.
Aaaand we get more discussion about Hulk Hogan, and he apparently left the hospital against the wishes of the doctor, his lawyer, and his cronies Brutus Beefcake and Jimmy Hart, and is walking (yes, walking) back to the arena, heroically, with his damaged knee, to face Ric Flair. Also, the lawyer goofed up when he implied that Eric Bischoff is the head of WCW.
Next match is Antonio Inoki v. Lord Steven Regal.
Regal is still TV champ but this is a nontitle match. Inoki is 51 years old at this point, FYI. Anyway, this was sort of like a boring MMA/shoot match. Regal got in most of the offense until the end where Inoki got him in a choke-sleeper hold and put Regal out. Not the most thrilling match. The best part was where Heenan, upon finding out that Inoki is in the Japanese House of Councilors which is the equivalent of our US Senate, said that this was like Regal suplexing Ted Kennedy.
Final match is for the WCW World title: Hulk Hogan v. Ric Flair
Hogan heroically walked 5 blocks in about 10 minutes on a badly injured knee just so as to not disappoint all the little Pukesters, uh, I mean Hulksters out there. It would be good booking for Hogan to lose the title by hook or by crook to build up this rivalry and also build some sympathy, but what do you suppose the odds of that are? Hmmm?
Okay, here we go.
They had announced that if Hogan can’t wrestle, he will forfeit the title to Ric Flair. What??? When has a title ever changed hands without an actual match, because the guy got hurt before the match? I could understand the title being vacated, but you can’t just hand the title to the challenger. That’s just dumb and goes against anything I’d seen before in pro wrestling. How can you hand the title to the challenger without a match? But that’s WCW for you.
Anyway, of course Hogan comes out at the last moment with his bandaged knee. He comes out with Jimmy Hart and Brutus Beefcake. As an aside, I hate when they call Brutus “Bruti”. I don’t know why, but that just rubs me the wrong way.
Hogan starts by attacking Flair before the bell, then goes in with a bunch of heroic eye rakes, back scratches, and biting, and outside the ring tries a chair shot but Flair dodges it. They were outside the ring for a minute or more with no countout, but I don’t mind that in a championship match. Hogan basically dominated the match but Hogan falls out of the ring after Flair attempts another figure four (with some help from Sherri) and Hogan is counted out in about the quickest countout in history. The Hulkster doesn’t job, brother! Michael Buffer screws up twice. First, he declares Flair the new champion. Apparently Buffer doesn’t know the rules at all and is just there to collect a fat paycheck. After the ref corrects him, he then screws up again by saying that Flair won by disqualification rather than countout. Anyway, after the match, flair and Sherri go after Hogan’s knee, then the masked guy in black who had attacked Hogan earlier comes out to help, then runs to the back again. I guess that was supposed to be Mr Perfect but was actually Arn Anderson. And Sting runs out finally to make the save. Last year Sting was the biggest start in wrestling. This year he’s not even wrestling at this PPV and is reduced to coming out in civvies at the end to save Hogan . I don’t know if he was injured or if Bischoff just didn’t have faith in him (like he didn’t have faith in Steve Austin – good call Eric!) but it’s amazing how far, how fast Sting has slipped. No room for him in Hogan’s WCW anyway, I guess.
This was a pretty decent match anyway, despite my complaints.
One amusing thing during the Hogan match, when he and Flair were tussling on the floor, some little old lady hit Hogan with her walking stick. Good for you, granny! It didn’t look like anything that would hurt at all, but I appreciate the thought.
So you had one great match (Austin-Steamboat) and a pretty good main event, and the rest of this show was awful, plus they spent too much time mooning over Hogan and his injury. Overall, probably a below average even if it was PPV, but since it was on “free TV” I can’t really complain too much.
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Post by dbutler69 on May 17, 2024 13:16:34 GMT -5
Interesting stuff about Sgt. Slaughter. I'd not heard any of that before. Does sound kind of odd.
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Post by driver1980 on May 17, 2024 20:09:16 GMT -5
I watched Clash of the Champions 28 from August, 1994. Okay, so the main event here is supposed to be a rematch between Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair for the WCW championship. We have Tony Schiavone and Bobby Heenan calling the action with Gene Okerlund doing interviews. First match is Special Tag Team Feature: The Nasty Boys v. Pretty Wonderful
Pretty Wonderful are the champs and this is a non-title match but if the Nasties win they get a title shot. This was not a very good match, and the ending was terrible. The Nasties win when Sags does the elbow drop off the middle ropes and covers Orndorff for the pin, in spite of the fact that Sags wasn’t the legal man. Oh, and Orndorff wasn’t the legal man either. Unbelievably stupid and no reason or excuse for the ref to count that, but WCW seems to have an anything goes and anybody can pin anybody and it still counts attitude when it comes to tag team matches. Next, Hogan is coming out to the platform with Gene Okerlund for an interview when someone in a black costume & mask runs out, smashes Hogan in the knee with a metal pipe, then runs off. Hogan is yelling “oh my knee” over and over in some of the worst acting I’ve ever seen. At least he’s got Gene Okerlund to keep him company in the bad acting department here. They spend way too long on this segment, showing Hogan being tended to and taken in an ambulance to a nearby hospital. I don’t know how long this went on for, but it was way too long. Next match is US title: Stunning Steve Austin (champ) v. Ricky Steamboat
They even have a split screen during this match showing the ambulance going to the hospital while this match is going on!! Yes, I’d rather watch an ambulance drive down the street than watch Steve Austin vs. Ricky Steamboat. Next match is Terry Funk & Bunkhouse Buck v. Dustin Rhodes & Dusty Rhodes. This was on okay match. The Rhodeses win by DQ when Arn Anderson (who had cheapshotted Dustin on the outside of the ring a minute earlier) comes into the ring and blatantly interferes. Kind of a dumb ending. No reason for him to do that, since it’s not like Dusty was about to score the win or something. Anyway, like I said, this was on okay match. Dusty was clearly past his prime, but they did keep up a good pace in this match, with Dustin doing the heavy lifting for Team Rhodes. This was yet another WCW tag team match where they pay no attention whatsoever to who the legal man is. Can’t they at least pretend to adhere to some rules? Why should I care otherwise? Flair in an interview demands that Hogan walk to the arena and hand him the belt personally. Good stuff by Flair. Aaaand we get more discussion about Hulk Hogan, and he apparently left the hospital against the wishes of the doctor, his lawyer, and his cronies Brutus Beefcake and Jimmy Hart, and is walking (yes, walking) back to the arena, heroically, with his damaged knee, to face Ric Flair. Also, the lawyer goofed up when he implied that Eric Bischoff is the head of WCW. Next match is Antonio Inoki v. Lord Steven Regal.Regal is still TV champ but this is a nontitle match. Inoki is 51 years old at this point, FYI. Anyway, this was sort of like a boring MMA/shoot match. Regal got in most of the offense until the end where Inoki got him in a choke-sleeper hold and put Regal out. Not the most thrilling match. The best part was where Heenan, upon finding out that Inoki is in the Japanese House of Councilors which is the equivalent of our US Senate, said that this was like Regal suplexing Ted Kennedy. Final match is for the WCW World title: Hulk Hogan v. Ric FlairHogan heroically walked 5 blocks in about 10 minutes on a badly injured knee just so as to not disappoint all the little Pukesters, uh, I mean Hulksters out there. It would be good booking for Hogan to lose the title by hook or by crook to build up this rivalry and also build some sympathy, but what do you suppose the odds of that are? Hmmm? Okay, here we go. They had announced that if Hogan can’t wrestle, he will forfeit the title to Ric Flair. What??? When has a title ever changed hands without an actual match, because the guy got hurt before the match? I could understand the title being vacated, but you can’t just hand the title to the challenger. That’s just dumb and goes against anything I’d seen before in pro wrestling. How can you hand the title to the challenger without a match? But that’s WCW for you. Anyway, of course Hogan comes out at the last moment with his bandaged knee. He comes out with Jimmy Hart and Brutus Beefcake. As an aside, I hate when they call Brutus “Bruti”. I don’t know why, but that just rubs me the wrong way. Hogan starts by attacking Flair before the bell, then goes in with a bunch of heroic eye rakes, back scratches, and biting, and outside the ring tries a chair shot but Flair dodges it. They were outside the ring for a minute or more with no countout, but I don’t mind that in a championship match. Hogan basically dominated the match but Hogan falls out of the ring after Flair attempts another figure four (with some help from Sherri) and Hogan is counted out in about the quickest countout in history. The Hulkster doesn’t job, brother! Michael Buffer screws up twice. First, he declares Flair the new champion. Apparently Buffer doesn’t know the rules at all and is just there to collect a fat paycheck. After the ref corrects him, he then screws up again by saying that Flair won by disqualification rather than countout. Anyway, after the match, flair and Sherri go after Hogan’s knee, then the masked guy in black who had attacked Hogan earlier comes out to help, then runs to the back again. I guess that was supposed to be Mr Perfect but was actually Arn Anderson. And Sting runs out finally to make the save. Last year Sting was the biggest start in wrestling. This year he’s not even wrestling at this PPV and is reduced to coming out in civvies at the end to save Hogan . I don’t know if he was injured or if Bischoff just didn’t have faith in him (like he didn’t have faith in Steve Austin – good call Eric!) but it’s amazing how far, how fast Sting has slipped. No room for him in Hogan’s WCW anyway, I guess. This was a pretty decent match anyway, despite my complaints. One amusing thing during the Hogan match, when he and Flair were tussling on the floor, some little old lady hit Hogan with her walking stick. Good for you, granny! It didn’t look like anything that would hurt at all, but I appreciate the thought. So you had one great match (Austin-Steamboat) and a pretty good main event, and the rest of this show was awful, plus they spent too much time mooning over Hogan and his injury. Overall, probably a below average even if it was PPV, but since it was on “free TV” I can’t really complain too much. Has there been a WCW card so far that hasn’t had a lack of logic pertaining to tag matches? This event should have been titled Hulkamania I or something. Thank goodness Hogan doesn’t feature on the next chronological event, Fall Brawl ‘94. I, too, would rather have seen Steamboat/Austin, especially as this was another title win for the Dragon, than hear the announcers drone on about Hogan, Hogan, Hogan. Steamboat/Austin was no doubt the match of the night, but did it feel important? You know, WM VI was a one-match show if you think about it, but at least commentators didn’t keep going on about Hogan/Warrior during bouts such as Jake/DiBiase, and Demolition vs. The Colossal Connection. Main event bouts should speak for themselves. In hindsight, I believe Hogan should have dropped the belt to Flair, perhaps regaining it later on. I’d say the same for Hogan/Vader. Thing is, when you have monthly events, before too long you end up with Hogan running out of opponents. If you don’t already know, wait until you see who he faces at Starrcade 1994. Still, I did read that this Clash drew a good rating, so I guess fans were into Hogan/Flair, who were at least enthusiastic (it would seem) about their feud. It’s a shame the card was only okay, though: I like Pretty Wonderful, but they and the Nasty Boys didn’t really make magic. Inoki/Regal was intriguing, but pretty boring. At least Dusty & Dustin Rhodes vs. Terry Funk & Bunkhouse Buck was solid. If you haven’t seen it before, I have a feeling you’ll enjoy Fall Brawl ‘94.
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Post by driver1980 on May 17, 2024 20:16:02 GMT -5
Incidentally, imagine if Jesse Ventura had remained with WCW during the Hogan era. I imagine that even within the confines of kayfabe, he’d have found it hard to hide his disdain for Hogan during commentary. It might have made for some golden commentary, though. (“See, not every fan buys into Hogan, look at what that old lady did, Schiavone!”)
And had Ventura still been with WCW in 1996, I wonder what his commentary would have been like during Hogan’s heel turn. (“I never trusted the guy, Schiavone, and tonight he showed his true colours! Hogan has only ever served Hogan!”)
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Post by commond on May 18, 2024 4:47:19 GMT -5
A guy that both Ricky Jackson and I know runs a daily wrestling newsletter that I recently subscribed to. In his recent timeline for June 1984, he had this interesting snippet of information:
Late June – In what is believed to be a “negotiating ploy” [WON 1984-08-20], Sgt. Slaughter submits official notice to the WWF, believing that he should receive royalty checks from the cobra coils and posters.
Looks like the Sarge and Vince were at odds over merchandising before the Hasbro contract.
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Post by driver1980 on May 18, 2024 5:24:02 GMT -5
A guy that both Ricky Jackson and I know runs a daily wrestling newsletter that I recently subscribed to. In his recent timeline for June 1984, he had this interesting snippet of information: Late June – In what is believed to be a “negotiating ploy” [WON 1984-08-20], Sgt. Slaughter submits official notice to the WWF, believing that he should receive royalty checks from the cobra coils and posters.Looks like the Sarge and Vince were at odds over merchandising before the Hasbro contract. Interesting. Thank you for sharing.
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Post by driver1980 on May 18, 2024 5:26:28 GMT -5
Incidentally, that has made me think about how Jesse Ventura successfully sued the WWF over videotape royalties. As you no doubt know, it led to some later DVD releases omitting Ventura’s voice (one DVD features Hogan/Warrior, and Gorilla Monsoon is “talking to himself”).
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