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Post by Batflunkie on May 29, 2024 13:58:32 GMT -5
I think something CM Punk talked with Colt Cobana on that infamous podcast was the fact that Vince tried to sweep the whole "independent contractors" notion under the rug for a while, like WWE owned the wrestlers and their likenesses lock, stock, and barrel. But more so it's just opportunity and WWE was for the most part the only game in town for people who wanted time in the spotlight. I know it’s probably a nuanced topic. I mean, some have used the plumber analogy. Why should a plumber, who may be an independent contractor, be told by millionaire Bob Jones that he can’t fix the house of rival millionaire John Smith? The plumber would hopefully assert himself in such a scenario. But I know wrestling is unique. ‘Independent contractors’ want their downside guarantees, merchandising opportunities, etc. Asserting their ‘independent contractor’ status would not be good for their careers, eh? But I wish someone would try. What I’d really like to see is someone stick two fingers up to the 90-day no-compete clause. The Financial Times recently did a piece about how the ‘no-compete clause’ has gone too far, with even barmen and kitchen staff being subjected to it (are there really many trade secrets a barman can share?). I understand the mindset, but I’d like to see a wrestler one day say to WWE, “Sorry, but I’m unemployed now, and I need to eat, so I am gonna take that booking next week.” Challenge it in court. I know, I know, I’m probably naive. I don’t understand how the federal government has let that whole ‘independent contractor’ thing fly all of these decades. How long has the term "independent contractor" existed in Wrestling exactly? Did it go back to the carny days or is it more recent?
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Post by driver1980 on May 29, 2024 14:17:01 GMT -5
I don’t know, but I guess there’s a possibility it was called something else decades ago.
I know some are against any changes, I think RVD liked being an ‘independent contractor’, and some have stated they’d earn a lot less if they were employees with health insurance, taxes, etc.
I can’t help but think there’s a happy medium, where wrestlers could be free to pursue some marketing deals while still being tied to WWE.
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Post by driver1980 on May 29, 2024 14:46:34 GMT -5
Random thought: should King Kong Bundy, Leilani Kai and Cyndi Lauper be in the WWE Hall of Fame?
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Post by codystarbuck on May 29, 2024 14:55:36 GMT -5
I know it’s probably a nuanced topic. I mean, some have used the plumber analogy. Why should a plumber, who may be an independent contractor, be told by millionaire Bob Jones that he can’t fix the house of rival millionaire John Smith? The plumber would hopefully assert himself in such a scenario. But I know wrestling is unique. ‘Independent contractors’ want their downside guarantees, merchandising opportunities, etc. Asserting their ‘independent contractor’ status would not be good for their careers, eh? But I wish someone would try. What I’d really like to see is someone stick two fingers up to the 90-day no-compete clause. The Financial Times recently did a piece about how the ‘no-compete clause’ has gone too far, with even barmen and kitchen staff being subjected to it (are there really many trade secrets a barman can share?). I understand the mindset, but I’d like to see a wrestler one day say to WWE, “Sorry, but I’m unemployed now, and I need to eat, so I am gonna take that booking next week.” Challenge it in court. I know, I know, I’m probably naive. I don’t understand how the federal government has let that whole ‘independent contractor’ thing fly all of these decades. How long has the term "independent contractor" existed in Wrestling exactly? Did it go back to the carny days or is it more recent? Independent contractor is a status, for tax and labor law purposes. It denotes that the contractor is self-employed and provides their own tax payments and health insurance and the like. They are contracted to perform services for the client, who pays them an agreed fee. From that, the contractor pays his own expenses and taxes. In the territory days, it was a true legal status, as the wrestlers did not have contracts with the promoters (in most cases) and were on handshake deals. They were free to leave at any time and go work for another promotion Where it stopped being true was when WCW and WWF started issuing written contacts to wrestlers, with non-compete clauses and the like. They, effectively, became employees of the company; but, the company used the independent contractor status to free itself from any labor burden, such as healthcare, overtime and other benefits guaranteed by law. The WWF and WCW wanted their cake and eat it, too (controlling the wrestler's appointment, but giving them no benefits). This exists in other fields, though the use is equally dubious. The reason the Federal government hasn't done anything about it is because it hasn't been challenged in Federal court, to any great degree. The closest there was to a challenge was when Brock Lesnar left and they tried to use the non-compete clause to prevent him working for New Japan and lost in court. Non-compete clauses are controversial in business law and there have been several cases where they were shot down as a restraint of trade. The alternate argument is that they protect proprietary information, but wrestling has nothing proprietary, apart from booking plans and that is hardly something that can be legally protected by copyright. Until the wrestlers band together and file a class action suit, it will continue to stand and the fact that they have never been able to stand together explains why they don't. If they won't form unions, they won't file class action suits, unless they smell blood in the water, like the concussion lawsuit, which went nowhere as almost non of the claimants could point to a career solely in the WWF/E, without taking bumps anywhere else.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 29, 2024 15:08:13 GMT -5
Random thought: should King Kong Bundy, Leilani Kai and Cyndi Lauper be in the WWE Hall of Fame? Given that there is no real criteria, why not? Lauper, certainly, as that did more to boost the WWF mainstream profile than anything. Leilani Kai deserves it as one of the top female wrestlers in the US, through the 1980s and into the 90s. She deserves to be there long before any female of the modern era and any valet/manager type. Bundy I would say less so, given his small window of being on top; but none of that really matters in this. I'd put Crusher Broomfield/One Man Gang/Akeem in there before Bundy; but, that's a personal view. Bundy's run against Hogan was bigger than Gang's; but, Gang was on top, in more places, for a longer period of time. Once he became King Kong Bundy, he worked on top, but it was a relatively short period, starting in Dallas. he had a bigger profile in the mainstream, thanks to Married With Children and some commercials and print ads. Again, what does it matter who is in? The recognition means nothing, is based on no criteria and is subjected to no vote. As long as Ivan Koloff remains the only WWWF champion not inducted it will never have meaning, as a professional accolade and as long as they use pointless celebrities who weren't draws to their events (Shatner, Pete Rose, etc) vs people like Lauper, who boosted their business.
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Post by driver1980 on May 29, 2024 15:11:49 GMT -5
Random thought: should King Kong Bundy, Leilani Kai and Cyndi Lauper be in the WWE Hall of Fame? Given that there is no real criteria, why not? Lauper, certainly, as that did more to boost the WWF mainstream profile than anything. Leilani Kai deserves it as one of the top female wrestlers in the US, through the 1980s and into the 90s. She deserves to be there long before any female of the modern era and any valet/manager type. Bundy I would say less so, given his small window of being on top; but none of that really matters in this. I'd put Crusher Broomfield/One Man Gang/Akeem in there before Bundy; but, that's a personal view. Bundy's run against Hogan was bigger than Gang's; but, Gang was on top, in more places, for a longer period of time. Once he became King Kong Bundy, he worked on top, but it was a relatively short period, starting in Dallas. he had a bigger profile in the mainstream, thanks to Married With Children and some commercials and print ads. Again, what does it matter who is in? The recognition means nothing, is based on no criteria and is subjected to no vote. As long as Ivan Koloff remains the only WWWF champion not inducted it will never have meaning, as a professional accolade and as long as they use pointless celebrities who weren't draws to their events (Shatner, Pete Rose, etc) vs people like Lauper, who boosted their business. I don’t disagree on the lack of criteria and how nothing is subjected to a vote. Personally, I consider the WWE Hall of Fame as being akin to Hasbro’s WWF toyline (1990-94). Pure marketing and profit. I expect that just as most recognisable stars got a Hasbro figure at some point (or Mattel), most will be in the Hall of Fame at some point, except for some embarrassing omissions.
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Post by commond on May 29, 2024 15:48:10 GMT -5
Random thought: should King Kong Bundy, Leilani Kai and Cyndi Lauper be in the WWE Hall of Fame? If you were putting Leilani Kai in the HOF, I would put her in with her partner Judy Martin.
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Post by commond on May 30, 2024 4:42:50 GMT -5
I've been enjoying Hogan's matches with Backlund from 1980. If he hadn't turned face and become the biggest star in the business, he could have carved out a decent living as a heel, especially if he'd started cutting Superstar Billy Graham promos.
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Post by driver1980 on May 30, 2024 5:26:13 GMT -5
I've been enjoying Hogan's matches with Backlund from 1980. If he hadn't turned face and become the biggest star in the business, he could have carved out a decent living as a heel, especially if he'd started cutting Superstar Billy Graham promos. What if, eh? It’s so interesting to imagine a world where that happens. Does Hogan still make it to the WWF? If so, does WrestleMania I still happen? If so, what would the main event have been?
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Post by driver1980 on May 30, 2024 5:35:35 GMT -5
I thought I’d revisit this tape last night. WrestleFest ‘88 took place at the Milwaukee County Stadium in Milwaukee, Wisconsin: We start with The British Bulldogs VS The Fabulous Rougeaus, who I always felt had good chemistry. They had another cracking bout here, which was won (pinfall) by the Rougeaus. Speaking of good chemistry, match #2 was Bret Hart VS Bad News Brown. This was a real clear cut case of a likeable babyface versus a heel you loved to hate. An excellent bout, Bad News got the win here (pinfall). Honky Tonk Man defended his Intercontinental Championship against Hacksaw Jim Duggan, which saw Duggan win via DQ. It was a short match which gave me what I expected, nothing more, nothing less. The Bolsheviks then took on The Powers of Pain in a good, solid, power-based match which was believable in every way. Back then, few wrestlers lacked ring psychology, moves happened for a reason, wrestlers sold moves well, and it all flowed well. The Powers of Pain got the win here via pinfall (Barbarian over Zhukov). Jim Neidhart beat Leaping Lanny Poffo in a bout which felt like a card filler, to be honest. I suppose lots of events have one. Jake Roberts took on Rick Rude in a match that ended via double count-out. Like their bout at WM IV, those two didnt seem to have the chemistry I’d hoped for. I just didnt think they ever clicked well. The Ultimate Warrior defeated Bobby Heenan in a Weasel Suit Match where, of course, the loser has to wear a weasel suit. How can one review this? A review would seem as futile as applying critical film analysis to 1953’s Casino Royale. It was fun, and it made the fans happy. And that is what counts. Demolition defeated The British Bulldogs via pinfall thanks to Mr Fuji’s cane (Ax clobbered Dynamite Kid with it while the referee was distracted, allowing Smash to get the pin on Dynamite). This was okay. In another filler, Dino Bravo pinned Ken Patera in a matter of minutes. In the main event, Hulk Hogan defeated Andre the Giant in a steel cage match (escape the cage rules). Hmmm, on MTV Cribs, Hogan claimed Andre passed away a couple of days after WM III, yet here they are wrestling 16 months after WM III. Odd. Anyway, while their WM III bout remains the best bout between the two, this one is very good, too, as the crowd were very enthusiastic, and Hogan sold well for Andre. The following matches were omitted from the tape: Big Boss Man VS Scott Casey Brutus Beefcake VS Hercules WWF Champion Randy Savage VS Ted DiBiase Curt Hennig VS Terry Taylor Haku VS Sam Houston I’d love to know how they decided what matches to omit. I’d have omitted Neidhart/Poffo and Roberts/Rude and featured Savage/DiBiase instead. Overall, this was a decent card but an unfulfilling one. Had it been on PPV, I’m sure many would have been disappointed. It feels like a glorifed episode of WWF Wrestling Challenge or something, and the crowd seemed lifeless for most bouts, Bret/Bad News, Powers of Pain/Bolsheviks, and Hogan/Andre aside (obviously, I don’t know what the crowd reaction was for the bouts I didn’t see). There’s nothing one can really describe as outstanding. Here’s the US video cover:
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Post by commond on May 30, 2024 5:40:49 GMT -5
I've been enjoying Hogan's matches with Backlund from 1980. If he hadn't turned face and become the biggest star in the business, he could have carved out a decent living as a heel, especially if he'd started cutting Superstar Billy Graham promos. What if, eh? It’s so interesting to imagine a world where that happens. Does Hogan still make it to the WWF? If so, does WrestleMania I still happen? If so, what would the main event have been? Well, these matches were in the WWF at the Philadelphia Spectrum during Hogan's first run for Vince Sr. I'm fairly sure Vince Jr would have still tried to go national. He would have simply chosen someone else as his number one star. Whether it would have worked out is anybody's guess. There's a timeline where Hogan is the heel at WrestleMania I and it draws like Graham did as champ.
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Post by commond on May 30, 2024 5:55:45 GMT -5
Recently, I've been obsessed with The Rougeau Brothers' theme song.
I was wondering what people's favorite theme songs are. Here are my favorite theme songs from Japan:
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 30, 2024 7:15:08 GMT -5
Sounds like Becky is taking time off to be a mom and heal that seems much more likely... what would AEW do with her?
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Post by dbutler69 on May 30, 2024 7:36:08 GMT -5
I thought I’d revisit this tape last night. WrestleFest ‘88 took place at the Milwaukee County Stadium in Milwaukee, Wisconsin: We start with The British Bulldogs VS The Fabulous Rougeaus, who I always felt had good chemistry. They had another cracking bout here, which was won (pinfall) by the Rougeaus. Speaking of good chemistry, match #2 was Bret Hart VS Bad News Brown. This was a real clear cut case of a likeable babyface versus a heel you loved to hate. An excellent bout, Bad News got the win here (pinfall). Honky Tonk Man defended his Intercontinental Championship against Hacksaw Jim Duggan, which saw Duggan win via DQ. It was a short match which gave me what I expected, nothing more, nothing less. The Bolsheviks then took on The Powers of Pain in a good, solid, power-based match which was believable in every way. Back then, few wrestlers lacked ring psychology, moves happened for a reason, wrestlers sold moves well, and it all flowed well. The Powers of Pain got the win here via pinfall (Barbarian over Zhukov). Jim Neidhart beat Leaping Lanny Poffo in a bout which felt like a card filler, to be honest. I suppose lots of events have one. Jake Roberts took on Rick Rude in a match that ended via double count-out. Like their bout at WM IV, those two didnt seem to have the chemistry I’d hoped for. I just didnt think they ever clicked well. The Ultimate Warrior defeated Bobby Heenan in a Weasel Suit Match where, of course, the loser has to wear a weasel suit. How can one review this? A review would seem as futile as applying critical film analysis to 1953’s Casino Royale. It was fun, and it made the fans happy. And that is what counts. Demolition defeated The British Bulldogs via pinfall thanks to Mr Fuji’s cane (Ax clobbered Dynamite Kid with it while the referee was distracted, allowing Smash to get the pin on Dynamite). This was okay. In another filler, Dino Bravo pinned Ken Patera in a matter of minutes. In the main event, Hulk Hogan defeated Andre the Giant in a steel cage match (escape the cage rules). Hmmm, on MTV Cribs, Hogan claimed Andre passed away a couple of days after WM III, yet here they are wrestling 16 months after WM III. Odd. Anyway, while their WM III bout remains the best bout between the two, this one is very good, too, as the crowd were very enthusiastic, and Hogan sold well for Andre. The following matches were omitted from the tape: Big Boss Man VS Scott Casey Brutus Beefcake VS Hercules WWF Champion Randy Savage VS Ted DiBiase Curt Hennig VS Terry Taylor Haku VS Sam Houston I’d love to know how they decided what matches to omit. I’d have omitted Neidhart/Poffo and Roberts/Rude and featured Savage/DiBiase instead. Overall, this was a decent card but an unfulfilling one. Had it been on PPV, I’m sure many would have been disappointed. It feels like a glorifed episode of WWF Wrestling Challenge or something, and the crowd seemed lifeless for most bouts, Bret/Bad News, Powers of Pain/Bolsheviks, and Hogan/Andre aside (obviously, I don’t know what the crowd reaction was for the bouts I didn’t see). There’s nothing one can really describe as outstanding. Here’s the US video cover: Bulldogs vs. Rougeaus sounds like an automatic winner. I can't imagine why they omitted the Savage-DiBiase bout. That sounds like a great one.
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Post by driver1980 on May 30, 2024 12:22:47 GMT -5
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