|
Post by commond on Jun 21, 2024 6:07:49 GMT -5
There was so much great stuff going on in 1984 WWF -- Slaughter vs. Iron Sheik, Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana, Dick Murdoch & Adrian Adonis vs. Jack and Jerry Brisco -- that I feel like WrestleMania I could have been a much better card if a) those workers stayed until '85 and b) it was booked like a stacked MSG card. I suppose you could argue the same thing about WrestleMania II as well.
|
|
|
Post by driver1980 on Jun 21, 2024 6:25:25 GMT -5
There was so much great stuff going on in 1984 WWF -- Slaughter vs. Iron Sheik, Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana, Dick Murdoch & Adrian Adonis vs. Jack and Jerry Brisco -- that I feel like WrestleMania I could have been a much better card if a) those workers stayed until '85 and b) it was booked like a stacked MSG card. I suppose you could argue the same thing about WrestleMania II as well. How about some fantasy booking? Similar to your concept? Imagine WM I takes place in March of 1984. How would the WWF have booked the card? I imagine Slaughter would have had a high-profile match at least.
|
|
|
Post by commond on Jun 21, 2024 6:48:10 GMT -5
I would probably go:
Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff (Dr. D David Schultz was an early favorite opponent of Hogan, but Orndoff was the better worker) Sgt. Slaughter vs. The Iron Sheik Tito Santana vs. Greg Valentine Rocky Johnson & Tony Atlas vs Adrian Adonis & Dick Murdoch Andre the Giant vs. Big John Studd Jimmy Snuka vs. Roddy Piper
|
|
|
Post by driver1980 on Jun 21, 2024 6:54:50 GMT -5
I would probably go: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff (Dr. D David Schultz was an early favorite opponent of Hogan, but Orndoff was the better worker) Sgt. Slaughter vs. The Iron Sheik Tito Santana vs. Greg Valentine Rocky Johnson & Tony Atlas vs Adrian Adonis & Dick Murdoch Andre the Giant vs. Big John Studd Jimmy Snuka vs. Roddy Piper Nice job. Personally, I’d have Snuka vs. Piper as the opening match.
|
|
|
Post by commond on Jun 21, 2024 6:57:37 GMT -5
I would probably go: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff (Dr. D David Schultz was an early favorite opponent of Hogan, but Orndoff was the better worker) Sgt. Slaughter vs. The Iron Sheik Tito Santana vs. Greg Valentine Rocky Johnson & Tony Atlas vs Adrian Adonis & Dick Murdoch Andre the Giant vs. Big John Studd Jimmy Snuka vs. Roddy Piper Nice job. Personally, I’d have Snuka vs. Piper as the opening match. Sure. I went top to bottom.
|
|
|
Post by driver1980 on Jun 21, 2024 7:05:09 GMT -5
Of course. Sorry, my brain was seeing it the other way around. My bad. 😖
|
|
|
Post by commond on Jun 21, 2024 7:12:59 GMT -5
Of course. Sorry, my brain was seeing it the other way around. My bad. 😖 No worries. I know historyofwwe does it the other way round.
|
|
|
Post by dbutler69 on Jun 21, 2024 8:33:07 GMT -5
Gorilla's obviously never seen a Fujiwara match. I am curious about whether these reviews are going to continue into 1995. 1995 was an all-time low for me as a wrestling fan and almost forced me to give up on wrestling for good. Yeah, I will slog through 1995. I know it'll probably be a grind but there must be a gem or two in that big pile of poop. It will also make me appreciate the late 90's more.
|
|
|
Post by Ricky Jackson on Jun 21, 2024 9:25:22 GMT -5
This documentary trailer is pretty cool. Yeah, if you can find it it's a pretty good doc
|
|
|
Post by driver1980 on Jun 21, 2024 17:14:28 GMT -5
Russo continues to be personal in his attacks on people, this time saying European fans suck for being too enthusiastic during recent PLEs (I’m not against him having a view, I am against him being personal). Can’t this guy get a job instead of begging for Patreon subscribers? Write for a baseball magazine, write for a TV magazine (about the Batman show, which he seems to like). Drive a van for DHL.
Incidentally, I just looked up his tweet linking to his YouTube video about European fans. Hmmm, 2K views of his tweet, but only 2 retweets and 16 likes. No replies. Tweeted four hours ago. Maybe I have overestimated this guy’s fan base. (I often fear he’ll end up writing for a promotion I like)
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jun 21, 2024 21:16:26 GMT -5
Russo continues to be personal in his attacks on people, this time saying European fans suck for being too enthusiastic during recent PLEs (I’m not against him having a view, I am against him being personal). Can’t this guy get a job instead of begging for Patreon subscribers? Write for a baseball magazine, write for a TV magazine (about the Batman show, which he seems to like). Drive a van for DHL. Incidentally, I just looked up his tweet linking to his YouTube video about European fans. Hmmm, 2K views of his tweet, but only 2 retweets and 16 likes. No replies. Tweeted four hours ago. Maybe I have overestimated this guy’s fan base. (I often fear he’ll end up writing for a promotion I like) Nobody is that desperate. Not even Impact/TNA or MLW.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jun 21, 2024 21:26:48 GMT -5
Just watched episode 3 of Who Killed WCW?. Do not ever try a drinking game where you drink when the word "bro" (okay, sound, since that ain't a word) is uttered; or, you will end up with blood alcohol poisoning! It's Russo's chance to defend his record and it's pretty much what you would expect: spin, no responsibility for failures, complete ignorance of the point of the show and a complete lack of understanding of storytelling, beyond an individual scene. He claims that Tony Sciavone pitched David Arquette winning the title. That has never come up before his recent claims of that. No one ever pointed a finger at Tony for that. Tony isn't interviewed for this, so no confirmation or denial from him; but, to use the words of Gorilla Monsoon, "Highly unlikely!" Even in interviews, he is fixated on ratings, which tanked completely. He clings to the brief bump they got, at the start. A blind monkey could have gotten that bump, as it was just curiosity, fueled by the mistaken belief that since he was a writer for the WWF, he had to be the one responsible for their resurgence. Boy did Russo clear that misconception up quickly. There is some back and forth and then Brad Siegal is asked about it and he said they "went up a little, but it didn't affect the advertising money." That's the part Russo never got; it's a business and business is about making money. He seemed to think that a slight improvement to the ratings meant he was doing his job. If they can't sell more advertising, based on those ratings, then he accomplished nothing. The tv didn't translate to an increase in ticket sales and PPV buys went down. The point of wrestling tv was to sell that product. It didn't make people want to go out and buy their merchandise. They weren't getting paid huge amounts for their show........Warner and Turner had pretty much gifted the show to TNT, so advertising, live events, merch sales and PPV buys were their main revenue streams. Those got worse, the more Russo's stuff bombed with the audience. He brings up the "casual audience," which gets the response from Konnan, who said "Why would the casual audience want to see Judy Bagwell on a pole?" He tries to claim that Bischoff had Hogan's ear and that's why Hogan wouldn't trust him. He even claims that if Bischoff had been gone, then he and Hogan would have gotten along fine. Not buying that one. Basically, Russo is not responsible for any of the failures and when challenged with putting himself all over the tv, he claims he was better than 80% of the locker room and his job was to write a tv show. So, if you are hired to write Star Trek and you put out episodes of I Love Lucy, with yourself in place of Lucille Ball, you've done your job? He claims that Kevin Sullivan & JJ Dillon conspired behind his back to get creative away from him and that he went home, refusing to work on a committee, not that they relieved him of his duties and suspended him. No one backs up Russo's claims, though no one outright calls BS on that. Bischoff is brought back to oversee Russo, according to him, Russo claims otherwise but he was determined to do his job. So, he goes from claiming he had full creative control, contractually to agreeing to work with Bischoff, because he wanted and not because he was compelled to do so. He tries to claim he championed Booker T and the racial discrimination lawsuit brought by Sony Ono and other WCW wrestlers is not brought up, at all, when most insider accounts said that the lawsuit led to them deciding to put the belt on Booker T, as a deflection of the racial issue. Russo makes the claim that Benoit, Guerrero, Saturn and Malenko left because he went home....not because Sullivan was put in charge. His presence had nothing to do with it. Sullivan's had everything to do with it, as they went to Bill Busch and said they couldn't work with him, specifically, especially Chris. Russo was never in the picture. He claims Goldberg deliberately tried to hurt him, when he speared him through a gimmicked part of a cage. To which Goldberg responded that if he wanted to hurt Russo, he wouldn't be breathing. Or he would have had a career-ending concussion, Bill. Russo is full of it; but, Goldberg still comes across as an A-hole. Nash is so baked in this episode that he should have a recipe card attached to his forehead. They show him the footage of them trying to drop blood on him, from above, and missing. he claims there were multiple tries and it was the same old story. I had long given up, by that point, so all I have seen is the clip they showed. Did they actually try it several times live or is Nash in THC land? Well, he is, but I mean his memory. Next episode is about the end; so I assume talk of Bischoff trying to put together a group to buy it, which dies when Jamie Kelner announces the cancellation of the tv show and Vince getting it for peanut shells (didn't even cost him the peanuts). The most ridiculous thing said is by Russo, where he says he hates wrestling, yet he keeps trying to beg jobs in it or related to it. Guess that degree in journalism hasn't helped much. Or managing a video store. What an absolute idiot. I knew he wouldn’t take responsibility. And if he hates wrestling, find another job. He looks fit, so could do a manual job. Who are these people who PAY to watch his Patreon? I have seen YouTube clips (for free). Imagine paying a dollar a week - or whatever it costs - to hear the SAME stuff. You get a bro every ten seconds, a rant about casual fans, a rant about how he doesn’t watch the product, a rant about how there’s too much wrestling on a wrestling show, etc. I love how he and his sycophants go on about how he was a success in WCW because we’re all still talking about it. Yes, and people are still talking about the Titanic. Doesn’t mean the ship’s voyage was a success. Did he mention how much coverage USA Today gave to Arquette as world champion? You know, I didn’t know USA Today clippings paid the bills. I didn’t know newspaper clippings were what advertisers looked at. I wish I had known. Maybe I can pay for my groceries with some newspaper clippings. As you show, there was a reason people tuned in initially when he joined WCW. It’s called curiosity, Russo. I like the writer Charles Soule. I’m not really following X-Men comics nowadays. But if Soule was assigned to an X-book, I might look in out of curiosity. After the garbage WCW had fed fans in late 1998/1999, some no doubt expected Russo to be a breath of fresh air. Great response from Konnan on casual fans. I’m BORED with Russo’s nonsense about casual fans. Did Game of Thrones seek casual fans? Should they have done? My late stepfather was a casual fan. I remember him watching Royal Rumble 1995 with me. Prior to that, he’d watched Ron Simmons defeat Vader for the WCW World Championship. I know that he didn’t really look in on it until the Attitude Era, I remember him recognising William Regal as the Lord Steven Regal he’d seen in WCW. I do remember him watching Goldberg vs. Triple H in 2003. So that’s about four or five matches in 8 years. Love ya, stepdad, but that is a casual fan, and the likes of WWE should not have been booking content based on someone who only checked in casually. Yes, Goldberg is proving to be an A-hole lately, for all sorts of reasons. My opinion of Russo has gone down even further after seeing a clip of him saying he’s not a belt guy. He doesn’t understand story structure, build up, endings, etc. He’d have had Spock “turn heel” on Kirk just to shock people, without any idea how to follow that up. Take him winning the world title and only holding it for four days (or was it two?). How was that gonna make money for WCW? How was that gonna attract TV ratings? He’s just a mark for himself. I am getting some enjoyment out of WWE right now. I want to tune in to see where the CM Punk/Drew McIntyre feud goes. I’m curious as to whether Damien Priest will fall out with the Judgment Day. I’ll watch the PLEs. I’m hooked. Many are. But I feel I can guarantee that no fan on Earth, back in the day, said, “I really must watch WCW next week to see what happens with Russo’s world title reign.” Or, “Wow, Arquette is champion, where’s my cable operator, the next WCW PPV is a must.” Cody, you mentioned Spike executives giving Russo his marching orders. Do you know an exact quote? I’d love to see one. I was talking about Bill Busch sending him home. Spike was later, with TNA. They refused to renew the show, the Mike Johnson of PW Insider reported that the cancellation was not related to Dixie Carter secretly bringing Russo back as a consultant, which he had outed, after Russo sent an e-mail that revealed he was working there, accidentally. However, his earlier departure had pretty much been mandated by Spike. Cornette and Dutch Mantell have told stories of production meetings, with Spike people, where Russo's nonsensical formats and storylines, complete with atrocious spelling, left them less than impressed and poor Mike Tenay had to read this stuff, out loud, with people then asking questions to try to make sense of it. Corny isn't a neutral source, but, his descriptions of Russo in TNA have largely been confirmed by Dutch Mantell, albeit with less venom and cursing.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jun 21, 2024 21:41:52 GMT -5
ps Russo isn't the sole villain in either WCW or TNA, as both were run by idiots and both had little control over their product and performers, at different stages. Jerry Jarrett walked out on TNA pretty early on, when it was clear that Jeff was more inclined to listen to Russo than him. That was before Dixie Carter got involved, as a family investment. When Jarrett had more say in things, Russo was reined in more; when Dixie had more say, he was a bull in a china shop.
Cornette, in discussing the first episode, did a prologue about "the first failure of WCW."
He talks about how the Turner TV execs were high on WCW, at the start, but less so after Jim Herd gets involved and it just got worse and worse, before Bischoff enters the picture and they find a hit, in the NWO angle. he gives credit to Bischoff for being the first guy in charge of the wrestling company who could talk to the Turner execs and broadcasting people, so he was the perfect liason. He also names some of the Turner people who were big backers of WCW, at the start.
|
|
|
Post by driver1980 on Jun 22, 2024 4:05:31 GMT -5
Last night’s tape was Supertape III: We open with the Texas Tornado vs. Mr Perfect (Maple Leaf Gardens). This isn’t their best match, and it ends with Tornado winning via count-out. Superfly Jimmy Snuka battled Barbarian in a believable, solid contest, another big man vs small (or smaller) man. Barbarian wins via pinfall here. These two did have some good bouts. Tugboat battles Earthquake in a short and inconclusive match, thanks to interference from Dino Bravo, giving Tugboat a DQ win. We have a profile on the Legion of Doom. They have a match against Demolition, which ends with Hawk pinning Smash. It was nothing special. And then Ultimate Warrior teams up with LOD to face all 3 Demolition members at MSG. This was quite captivating, and everyone seemed to be firing on all cylinders; worth a mention is that Warrior knocks over a photographer while running to the ring (hopefully that was a kayfabe act). Warrior pinned Smash for the win. Marty Jannetty takes on Paul Roma in a solid bout, and it’s good to be able to see tag wrestlers showcase their adaptability in singles. Roma wins via pinfall thanks to interference from Hercules. Big Boss Man vs. Ted DiBiase (an underrated feud, if you ask me) was a fun bout, although DiBiase won by DQ. Boss Man was certainly intense, he never seemed to do anything by half. The tape ends on a bit of a flat note as Intercontinental Champion Mr. Perfect battles Jake Roberts. I’m not sure those two ever had much chemistry. The flat note culminated in a DQ win for Jake. The WWF’s Most Outrageous hits segment is just a collection of clips of wrestlers doing various high-impact moves. It was fun. The match of the tape is the Warrior/LOD vs. Demolition bout, although a case could be made for Boss Man vs. DiBiase. I’ll give it to the six-man tag as conclusive endings are always preferable. Sadly, though, this is a rather uneven tape and can’t hold a candle to the first two.
|
|
|
Post by driver1980 on Jun 23, 2024 8:25:00 GMT -5
Tonight will be about watching football, so I put Supertape IV on last night: We begin with Texas Tornado vs. Mr Perfect, who is defending the Intercontinental Championship, which he won from Tornado a short while before. It’s okay, but nothing special, and Tornado wins via DQ. We get a rare babyface vs babyface bout: Tito Santana vs. Koko B. Ware at MSG. The WWF should definitely have done more face vs face and heel vs heel bouts. Koko does act heelish here, though (I wonder if this was a test to turn him heel?). Santana wins via pinfall. In a match chosen by a fan (allegedly), Tugboat battles The Undertaker. This tells a good story, I feel: can Tugboat dent the unstoppable Undertaker? Has Undertaker met his match? That’s the story, and they do it very well, with both men having surprisingly good chemistry. Taker pins Tugboat and buries him at sea (sorry). Shawn Michaels, still with the Rockers, battles Crush, still with Demolition. Although Fuji is as nefarious as he always was, Jannetty helps Michaels get a pinfall victory over Crush. It’s okay when babyfaces cheat, right? If only Jesse Ventura had still been with the WWF, I am sure he’d have called that out. In what was practically a squash match, the Legion of Doom managed to beat 3 men: Mr Fuji & The Orient Express. Thanks for coming, Orient Express. We’re treated to gourmet cooking tips with Mean Gene Okerlund and The Bushwhackers. How can I possibly review that? What would I say? It’s time for a profile of The Big Boss Man. He battles Earthquake (‘Quake wins via pinfall), Bobby Heenan (I’m sure you know who was the victor here), and the Barbarian (Big Boss Man wins via pinfall). Boss Man vs. Barbarian is hard-hitting and is the match of the tape. The tape ends with Ultimate Warrior successfully defending the WWF Championship against Sgt. Slaughter (Warrior wins via pinfall). This obviously took place prior to the 1991 Royal Rumble. It was okay. There are a few good bouts here, and what is bad doesn’t overshadow the good. And, hey, who doesn’t like seeing the LOD in a glorified squash match?
|
|