Post by codystarbuck on Jul 23, 2019 20:18:30 GMT -5
I was mostly avoiding the WWF (and WCW in 19-92); so I can't really comment about their PPVs.
As far as HHH, no one else used those initials, which came for Levesque's original WWF gimmick, Hunter Hearst Helmsley. Levesque got his start at Killer Kowalski's wrestling school and his IWF promotion (featuring his students and some others). He used the name Terra Ryzing and had that when he first came to WCW. He then started to appear as a snob, called Jean-Paul Levesque and then was teamed with Lord Steven Regal, as the Blue Bloods. He went to the WWF, where McMahon wanted to use him to mock his Connecticut neighbors, as Reginald Dupont Helmsley (Helmsley is from Leona Helmsley, the hotelier who was busted for income tax evasion, remarking taxes were for little people) and Levesque suggested the changer to Hunter Hearst Helmsley.
Levesque gained power behind the scenes when he fill in with the Kliq, a group that consisted of Scott Hall, Kevin Nash and Shawn Michaels. Michaels was the golden boy, who had Vince's ear, despite causing him constant headaches with his ego, antics and substance problems. Hall was the other guy with stroke, as he was the secondary top draw. Nash was a political manipulator who hung on their coats (he sure as hell wasn't a box office draw) and HH fell in with them. However, while they were notorious pillpoppers and boozers, HHH always had a rep for staying clean and didn't even drink beer. When Hall and Nash left the WWF, the Kliq had a :curtain call" at Madison Square Garden, after the last match (with Shawn) and broke kayfabe. Michaels couldn't be punished and Hall & Nash were gone, so HHH was demoted an jobbed out; but, kept his mouth shut and stayed cozie with michaels. When they started to to the Degeneration X thing, that was where he started to become a powerhouse. He had Michaels' ear, which means he had Vince's ear. To be fair, he also worked his butt off, had great matches, and was entertaining.
So, he became one of the lockerroom leaders, in the Attitude Era, thanks to association with Michaels (Undertaker ruled over all, as he was the most respected, the biggest draw, aside from Austin, hen that exploded; and he was a level-headed, straight shooter). The angle with Stephanie led to a real romance, marriage and kids. Vince really seems to respect his opinion (more than he seemed to respect Shane's, from some accounts) and he has been anointed to lead the company, in the future. he is a sort of transitional "old school" wrestler. He idolized guys like Flair, who were great workers and talkers and did what was asked of them. Fans may talk of people being held down; but, HHH has done far more positive thing, with NXT and the WWE, than most.
In 91-92, Pat Patterson was one of the powers, in terms of booking. Jack Lanza was one of the lead agents, and Jay Strongbow was probably the other, though he was despised by most (Lanza was highly respected). George "The Animal" Steele was another agent from around that time frame, though I'm not sure what his exact tenure was. Tony Garea was another. JJ Dillon was running talent relations, around then.
Hogan was never going to work with Bret or Shawn; he considered them too small and he wouldn't job to anyone who wasn't at least his size and usually not cleanly. The Warrior thing happened so he could do a movie; but, he insinuated himself back in there, quickly.
I don't know where anyone is getting the idea that Flair wasn't accepted at the WWF, during his first run. Everyone there knew Flair and his work and McMahon knew Flair and Dusty were the two reasons that Crockett was abe to compete with Vince and keep him from drawing, in the South. I don't think they always used him as well as the could have; but, that was par for the course, in that timeframe. Bret is the only one I have heard voice a beef with Flair and much of it comes across as jealousy. He routinely talks about Flair doing the same match; yet, hen I watched a lot of Bret's matches, he was doing the same spots, again and again. I think a lot of that is that Flair got a response from crowds, no matter what he did, while Bret had to work his ass off. Flair knew when to do a little and when to do a lot. He also could have a great match with anyone. I think Bret's biggest issue was that Flair was a threat to him moving up to main event, until Flair did the job for him (and bret still complains about that), while Bret couldn't be bothered to do the same thing on his way out of the WWF. All he did was whine about dropping his title in Canada. Newsflash, Bret, you didn't win it. You were booked to gain the title and now you were booked to lose it, like every other wrestler who held it, including Bruno. Shawn was an ass; but, bret was very much the flip side of the same coin.
Flair was more comfortable in a traditional promotion; and, with Jim Herd gone, the way was open for his return. I do think he was ill-used after he came back. Jobbing to Hogan and Savage made no sense. They should have been far more competitive; but, Hogan ensured that he didn't job to anyone, including Sting, when that should have happened. Greatest angle they had going and it ended as a fart in the wind, with the contrived finish. That's why the NWO was a failure, as an angle. The abyfaces never got to make a comeback and fans stopped watching.
the early 90s were a mess, for pro wrestling. The US economy was in a recession and steroids, booze and drugs were big problems. The steroid use was catching up to a lot of young guys, who were dying by their mid 40s. Booze and drugs contributed. Vince's trial hurt his company, badly. The stagnant roster and booking hurt. The only place they were making money was overseas and for the really big PPVs. WCW was in worse shape. I had mostly stopped watching, as the product was stale,at both companies. I watched a bit of Global Wrestling federation, on ESPN, when it debuted, and that was about it, until guys like Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko and Chris Benoit were regulars, in WCW. Then, when Koanan started bringing a lot of lucha guys to their attention, with Psicosis, Rey Mysterio Jr, Silver King, Los Villanos, Juventud Gerrera and La Parka. I had been hearing about those guys; now I could see them. They had been on fire, in the early 90s, as part of AAA, the rival to Mexico's long-standing EMLL/CMLL promotion. AAA drew a full house in LA, when the WWF and WCW couldn't draw a capacity crowd. WCW teamed up with AAA to present their When Worlds Collide PPV, which blew away everything from WCW and the WWF. The match between Los Gringos Locos (Eddie Guerrero and Art Bar) and Octagon and El Santo Jr was just a thing of beauty.
As far as HHH, no one else used those initials, which came for Levesque's original WWF gimmick, Hunter Hearst Helmsley. Levesque got his start at Killer Kowalski's wrestling school and his IWF promotion (featuring his students and some others). He used the name Terra Ryzing and had that when he first came to WCW. He then started to appear as a snob, called Jean-Paul Levesque and then was teamed with Lord Steven Regal, as the Blue Bloods. He went to the WWF, where McMahon wanted to use him to mock his Connecticut neighbors, as Reginald Dupont Helmsley (Helmsley is from Leona Helmsley, the hotelier who was busted for income tax evasion, remarking taxes were for little people) and Levesque suggested the changer to Hunter Hearst Helmsley.
Levesque gained power behind the scenes when he fill in with the Kliq, a group that consisted of Scott Hall, Kevin Nash and Shawn Michaels. Michaels was the golden boy, who had Vince's ear, despite causing him constant headaches with his ego, antics and substance problems. Hall was the other guy with stroke, as he was the secondary top draw. Nash was a political manipulator who hung on their coats (he sure as hell wasn't a box office draw) and HH fell in with them. However, while they were notorious pillpoppers and boozers, HHH always had a rep for staying clean and didn't even drink beer. When Hall and Nash left the WWF, the Kliq had a :curtain call" at Madison Square Garden, after the last match (with Shawn) and broke kayfabe. Michaels couldn't be punished and Hall & Nash were gone, so HHH was demoted an jobbed out; but, kept his mouth shut and stayed cozie with michaels. When they started to to the Degeneration X thing, that was where he started to become a powerhouse. He had Michaels' ear, which means he had Vince's ear. To be fair, he also worked his butt off, had great matches, and was entertaining.
So, he became one of the lockerroom leaders, in the Attitude Era, thanks to association with Michaels (Undertaker ruled over all, as he was the most respected, the biggest draw, aside from Austin, hen that exploded; and he was a level-headed, straight shooter). The angle with Stephanie led to a real romance, marriage and kids. Vince really seems to respect his opinion (more than he seemed to respect Shane's, from some accounts) and he has been anointed to lead the company, in the future. he is a sort of transitional "old school" wrestler. He idolized guys like Flair, who were great workers and talkers and did what was asked of them. Fans may talk of people being held down; but, HHH has done far more positive thing, with NXT and the WWE, than most.
In 91-92, Pat Patterson was one of the powers, in terms of booking. Jack Lanza was one of the lead agents, and Jay Strongbow was probably the other, though he was despised by most (Lanza was highly respected). George "The Animal" Steele was another agent from around that time frame, though I'm not sure what his exact tenure was. Tony Garea was another. JJ Dillon was running talent relations, around then.
Hogan was never going to work with Bret or Shawn; he considered them too small and he wouldn't job to anyone who wasn't at least his size and usually not cleanly. The Warrior thing happened so he could do a movie; but, he insinuated himself back in there, quickly.
I don't know where anyone is getting the idea that Flair wasn't accepted at the WWF, during his first run. Everyone there knew Flair and his work and McMahon knew Flair and Dusty were the two reasons that Crockett was abe to compete with Vince and keep him from drawing, in the South. I don't think they always used him as well as the could have; but, that was par for the course, in that timeframe. Bret is the only one I have heard voice a beef with Flair and much of it comes across as jealousy. He routinely talks about Flair doing the same match; yet, hen I watched a lot of Bret's matches, he was doing the same spots, again and again. I think a lot of that is that Flair got a response from crowds, no matter what he did, while Bret had to work his ass off. Flair knew when to do a little and when to do a lot. He also could have a great match with anyone. I think Bret's biggest issue was that Flair was a threat to him moving up to main event, until Flair did the job for him (and bret still complains about that), while Bret couldn't be bothered to do the same thing on his way out of the WWF. All he did was whine about dropping his title in Canada. Newsflash, Bret, you didn't win it. You were booked to gain the title and now you were booked to lose it, like every other wrestler who held it, including Bruno. Shawn was an ass; but, bret was very much the flip side of the same coin.
Flair was more comfortable in a traditional promotion; and, with Jim Herd gone, the way was open for his return. I do think he was ill-used after he came back. Jobbing to Hogan and Savage made no sense. They should have been far more competitive; but, Hogan ensured that he didn't job to anyone, including Sting, when that should have happened. Greatest angle they had going and it ended as a fart in the wind, with the contrived finish. That's why the NWO was a failure, as an angle. The abyfaces never got to make a comeback and fans stopped watching.
the early 90s were a mess, for pro wrestling. The US economy was in a recession and steroids, booze and drugs were big problems. The steroid use was catching up to a lot of young guys, who were dying by their mid 40s. Booze and drugs contributed. Vince's trial hurt his company, badly. The stagnant roster and booking hurt. The only place they were making money was overseas and for the really big PPVs. WCW was in worse shape. I had mostly stopped watching, as the product was stale,at both companies. I watched a bit of Global Wrestling federation, on ESPN, when it debuted, and that was about it, until guys like Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko and Chris Benoit were regulars, in WCW. Then, when Koanan started bringing a lot of lucha guys to their attention, with Psicosis, Rey Mysterio Jr, Silver King, Los Villanos, Juventud Gerrera and La Parka. I had been hearing about those guys; now I could see them. They had been on fire, in the early 90s, as part of AAA, the rival to Mexico's long-standing EMLL/CMLL promotion. AAA drew a full house in LA, when the WWF and WCW couldn't draw a capacity crowd. WCW teamed up with AAA to present their When Worlds Collide PPV, which blew away everything from WCW and the WWF. The match between Los Gringos Locos (Eddie Guerrero and Art Bar) and Octagon and El Santo Jr was just a thing of beauty.
