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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2019 19:14:28 GMT -5
What about the worst match? Colossal Kongs vs. Gobbledy Gooker in a 60-minute iron man handicap match - which ends in a double-DQ. Awesome Kong vs ODB in a Bra and Panties match ... WWF Style (they were in TNA together at one time). |
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 21, 2019 20:04:20 GMT -5
Worst match? El Gigante/Giant Gonzalez vs Rajah Lion....
(Warning, some potty-mouth language)
The Colossal Kongs are the Midnight Express, by comparison.
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 21, 2019 20:06:48 GMT -5
A couple of my dream matches: 1) Late-80s Ric Flair vs early-2000s Eddie Guerrero. Eddie cheating as much as Flair but getting cheered while Flair gets booed, and Flair's reactions to same, would be great entertainment. 2) A three-way tough guy match between Greg Valentine, Ron Garvin, and William Regal. #2 would be a helluva match. Garvin could go, on the mat and he and Regal could do some stuff. Valentine could when he wanted to; but, he and Garvin would chop each other into hamburger. Make it a 4-way, with Wahoo McDaniel and no one gets out alive! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 6:56:14 GMT -5
What about Hillbilly Jim vs. Henry Godwinn vs. Phineas Godwinn in a Hog Pen Ladder Match?
Anyone?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 8:00:26 GMT -5
What about Hillbilly Jim vs. Henry Godwinn vs. Phineas Godwinn in a Hog Pen Ladder Match? Anyone? That's should be an interesting country-style hoedown match that's would be a fun one to watch! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 8:41:28 GMT -5
Thought for the day: I am surprised WCW didn't try and hire Mr T in the late 90s to argue with/feud against Hulk Hogan, either in a singles or tag match.
WCW made odd celebrity decisions at times, whether it be paying bands to play on Nitro (with no rhyme or reason) or having Dennis Rodman take on Randy Savage in late 1999.
Yet why not Mr T?
I could have envisioned a promo where Mr T appears on Nitro and tells Hogan how his turn to the dark side has shattered the dreams of millions of fans. It could have ended in a brawl. And then maybe we could have had a PPV main event where Roddy Piper and Mr T take on Hollywood Hogan or Scott Hall.
That celebrity involvement would, in my view, have at least made sense. Imagine Batman "turning heel". Superman or Robin would show up to deal with it. Well, I would have liked to have seen Mr T show up and hold Hogan to account during the nWo era.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 12:50:28 GMT -5
I would like to see a brawl of Mr T. and Piper taking on Hogan and Savage instead of Hall. To make it Hall, Nash, and Hogan taking on the likes of Mr T., Piper, and a mystery partner would be the remaining cast of the A-Team and that's would be a riot.
Rowdy Roddy Piper, Mr T., George Peppard, Dirk Benedict, and Dwight Schultz ... verses ... Hulk Hogan, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, and Scott Waltman. That's would be a great match on WCW.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 13:01:04 GMT -5
Nice dream match there!
Like I said, WCW's hires of celebrities made no sense, including hiring bands to open their shows.
What did anyone gain from having Randy Savage battle Dennis Rodman (I think that took place at Bash at the Beach 1999). Who wanted to see that?
What was the point in killer doll Chucky cutting a promo on Rick Steiner via a video link? Or having Jeep Swenson show up?
At least the WWF's celebrity hires made sense, e.g. Mike Tyson's 1998 tenure. That had a logic to it and it led somewhere. How many PPV buy rates did Savage vs. Rodman draw in 1999? None, I'm sure.
Chuck Norris being the special ringside enforcer at Survivor Series 1994 made perfect sense. Did it attract any extra buys? I couldn't make that argument. I am not sure any extra people bought the PPV due to Norris' presence, but at least it had a logic to it. And knowing that William Shatner was going to appear on the King's Court might have got some tuning in. But none of WCW's celebrity hires seemed to have any logic or point.
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 22, 2019 16:40:53 GMT -5
Nice dream match there! Like I said, WCW's hires of celebrities made no sense, including hiring bands to open their shows. What did anyone gain from having Randy Savage battle Dennis Rodman (I think that took place at Bash at the Beach 1999). Who wanted to see that? What was the point in killer doll Chucky cutting a promo on Rick Steiner via a video link? Or having Jeep Swenson show up? At least the WWF's celebrity hires made sense, e.g. Mike Tyson's 1998 tenure. That had a logic to it and it led somewhere. How many PPV buy rates did Savage vs. Rodman draw in 1999? None, I'm sure. Chuck Norris being the special ringside enforcer at Survivor Series 1994 made perfect sense. Did it attract any extra buys? I couldn't make that argument. I am not sure any extra people bought the PPV due to Norris' presence, but at least it had a logic to it. And knowing that William Shatner was going to appear on the King's Court might have got some tuning in. But none of WCW's celebrity hires seemed to have any logic or point. Both Chucky and Robocop were being promoted by Warner Bros, who owned Turner Broadcasting, at that point. Rodman was a major media figure and it brought attention to WCW. Randy was a guy who could work with anyone. Also, he was a known figure to the mass media because of the Slim Jim ads. There was a certain logic to it. Funnily enough, the Jay Leno match actually went over well with the audience and they had a good buy rate. You have to put it in context. Mr T really offered nothing, as he was long out of the spotlight. he needed WCW more than they needed him. He might not have been willing to do an angle where he played a heel to Hogan, which would be the only reason to use him and pay that much money. Bischoff and the rest were mesmerized by money. mcMahon had plenty of stupid celebrity things; but, people remember Tyson as being great and forget about the numerous bad ones, like William Shatner or Mickey Rourke. Yet, when it comes to WCW, people remember the really bad, like David Arquette (Russo idea) or The Demon (Bischoff idea); but forget the ones that worked (Leno, Rodman for the first match, Kevin Malone). |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 18:16:59 GMT -5
While I understand that WB were promoting Chucky and RoboCop, I still don't think Chucky's presence made any sense. The airtime used for him to 'challenge' Rick Steiner could have been better used. As for RoboCop, that appearance was a guilty pleasure of mine.
I did enjoy Dennis Rodman's early bouts at the 1997 and 1998 Bash at the Beach events, but by late 1999, Randy Savage was past his prime, seemed to be winding down his career - and perhaps without the momentum he had 3-5 years earlier. So I really can't understand what the attraction was for him wrestling Savage.
But I can see the good. The Hogan/Bischoff vs. DDP/Leno match is a lot of fun. I have nothing but positive things to say about that. And I did enjoy seeing the likes of the Insane Clown Posse and KISS (I'm a huge KISS fan). So it's not that WCW never got it right with celebrities. But I sure wish Mr T and Sylvester Stallone could have appeared on WCW between 1996 and 1998, whether that be to challenge Hogan (not necessarily to a match, but just to berate him) or in some sort of gimmick match.
And although I feel the WWF didn't necessarily get every celebrity appearance right, it felt like there was at least a plan even if it went awry. There just seemed to be a little more rhyme, reason and order to their celebrity appearances even if the execution failed whereas with WCW, it felt like, the great appearances aside (e.g. Leno), that someone just had a slot to fill and filled it randomly.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 21:22:59 GMT -5
The David Arquette idea ... by Vince Russo is the stupidest idea that ever came out in Pro Wrestling History. To me, he is an a**hole of a bird brain that has no business in this sport. I despise that man and I really wanted to throw a pie at him (generally speaking) for being that stupid. The Demon by Eric Bischoff ... I did not see it and I heard it was stupid too and I really put him the blame for not enjoying TNA anymore and I don't watch it all.
I really despise both morons for ruining Professional Wrestling ... period.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 8:30:03 GMT -5
There has to be a point to celebrity involvement.
I like Cyndi Lauper. I do. And there was logic in her involvement during the Rock 'n' Wrestling era. Is she in the celebrity wing of the Hall of Fame, by the way? (No need to answer, I'll stop being lazy and check Wikipedia later).
David Arquette's title win may have got a lot of column space (Russo boasted about how USA Today covered it), but unless it attracted ratings or PPV buy rates, it's a failure. I am sure Tyson's WWF tenure attracted ratings. Wrestling fans will watch wrestling even if Peter Rabbit shows up and wins the title, but casual fans are, well, casual fans. I know my stepdad was a VERY casual fan of wrestling, but if a favourite name of his returned, he'd tune in - and probably leave once they left. So there may well have been people who tuned in to see what Tyson would get up to. And while one hopes WrestleMania XIV attracted PPV buys on the basis of Michaels/Austin, who knows, perhaps Tyson, in a small way, attracted some casual, lapsed or non-fans? I can't prove that of course.
So while I'm no expert on celebrity involvement, I think it has to have a point. Maybe some basketball fans tuned in to see the likes of Dennis Rodman in WCW. My brother, who is not a wrestling fan (nor has he ever been) did briefly look at it when Stephen Amell was in the WWF. He likes Arrow so I guess his enthusiasm led him to watch the WWF. Perhaps celebrities can attract non-fans.
But I fail to imagine a scenario where someone says, "I'm a David Arquette fan. I heard he won the WCW World Title. I must now watch all WCW programming and PPVs for the foreseeable future."
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Post by The Captain on Dec 23, 2019 9:27:41 GMT -5
@taxidriver1980, I think part of the issue with your last sentence is that no one, in the entire history of humanity, has ever identified themself as a "David Arquette fan". He's like a low-grade fever or toe fungus, something you endure rather than enjoy.
The problem with celebrity booking is that professional wrestling is really an acquired taste. I can be the biggest Dennis Rodman or Stephen Amell fan in the world, but I still need some level of affinity for watching grown men and women fake fighting each other and attempting to act during mostly cringe-worthy backstage segments, or else I'm not going to continue to tune in past the initial event.
Thing is, there is a big difference between running an angle where you team up a well-known non-wrestler like Rodman or Karl Malone with a popular wrestler (Hogan and DDP, in this example) with putting your coveted Championship belt around the waist of a Z-level actor whose biggest claim to fame is being "Mr. Courtney Cox" or "that goofy dude from the Scream movies".
A one-time only event, which even made sense because of Rodman and Malone's history in the NBA as rivals, can be excused as the bookers and writers having a little fun while trying to boost the buy rate for a PPV. However, making David Arquette your champion, putting his name alongside Flair, Vader, Sting, Hogan, Benoit, Jericho, DDP, and other major stars in the wrestling world, is just embarrassing and the real fans know it while also understanding that it actually lessens the credibility of the "sport" among casual fans.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 9:45:56 GMT -5
You put it so well, Captain!
And Russo didn't seem to get it. I think he once said something along the lines of, "People are still talking about it today, doesn't that make it a success?" Well, people might talk about the time they had measles, but that doesn't make it a positive!
In one early shoot interview, he was smiling and saying about how USA Today covered it. Last time I checked, column space in USA Today doesn't equate to PPV dollars or TV ratings. I wasn't aware a wrestling company could use newspaper column words and cash them in for "credits" at the local bank. I really am not sure why Russo said that. And it's not like Arquette won it in a one-on-one match.
Same with Russo's world title reign. What did that achieve? Did it increase viewing figures? Bring in PPV buy rates? Wasn't he world champion for two days? A two-day world title reign could make sense for a wrestler depending on the storyline. Giving it to Russo so his ego could say he was world champion makes no sense.
I am of the belief that if something isn't going to make sense or add value, don't do it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 10:21:39 GMT -5
Points well taken The Captain & @taxidriver1980 ... you've both made your points well clear. |
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