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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 21:18:26 GMT -5
Same here and he's a favorite too ... in terms of being a Manager and I liked the way he handled himself by introducing Ric Flair to WWF/WWE back in 1991.
He did this in perfection and my favorite moment too.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 6, 2020 0:16:47 GMT -5
Wrestling promoters seemed to prefer fictitious tournaments to launch new titles. Sometimes, it is a gimmick for a wrestler who comes into the territory (Billy Robinson's British Empire title, in the AWA) and sometimes its to introduce a new title that is taking the place of one felt to be outdated (like the Georgia titles being replaced by the National titles, due to the exposure on WTBS nationally). I have been following Pro Wrestling since 1976 and I have never once heard anything like a fictitious tournaments to launch new titles. I find this practice rather odd and unusual and strange and this might a poor choice of words here ... but this is totally illogical to me. I know about 40% of all the territories that you've mentioned and this is not what I've expected and seems odd to me and this is nothing short of being deceitful to the fans like us following it. I consider this act ... rather dishonest (maybe not the right word here) ... and in poor taste. What you written in this post is a total eye-opener and thanks for sharing it. Fictitious tournaments, matches, and lineages were a staple of wrestling. The "Rio De Janeiro Tournament: being the most noted. Others include: The ICW World title-the official lineage on the Poffo tv shows said Leaping Lanny defeated Joe Banek, in Halifax, Nova Scotia, in 1979 to win the title. There was no such match. However, there was a Joe Banek who wrestled in the Maritimes promotion, in Canada, which covered Nova Scotia. In 1979, Angelo Poffo was booking the territory and featured sons Randy and Lanny as the top stars, contending for the International Title. This would be used as an inspiration for the ICW title, since they were International Championship Wrestling. Anyone who saw anything about the Poffos and and International title, in Canada, would assume it was the same title that Lanny won and lost to Randy, in ICW. They also had a fictional tournament in Salt Lake City for the US tag team titles, which Leaping Lanny and George Weingeroff "won. ICW never promoted in Utah and Salt Lake City was an AWA town. Several world titles traced lineage from a match between Lou Thesz and Edouard Carpentier. The match had a disputed third fall, to allow Thesz some time off and let Carpentier be billed as champion, based on a decision which violated NWA rules. The plan was for Thesz to return from his break and face Carpentier to unify the titles. However, some promoters broke away from the NWA and used the Carpentier win to establish their titles, by bringing in Carpentier to lose the "world title to their guy." With Carpentier allying with the rebel promoters, the NWA announced that the title had not changed hands. Carpentier then lost the title in Boston, to establish their world title, in Omaha, for theirs, and in Los Angeles, for the WWA title. Dick the Bruiser defeated Freddie Blassie for the WWA title, in Los Angeles, in 1964. He lost the title to the Destroyer (Dick Beyer) 3 months later. Dick the Bruiser and Wilbur Snyder purchased the Indianapolis territory from Jim Barnett and started their WWA, with Bruiser still claiming to hold the title, even though he lost it to Beyer. When Tiger Mask won the NWA World Jr Hwt title, while holding the WWF Jr Hwt title, some NWA promoters were upset that the WWF title was being defended with theirs and called for a new champion to be recognized in the US. The NWA Board stated that Tiger Mask was still recognized as champion. A fictitious tournament was said to have occured, with Les Thornton, the person who lost the belt to Tiger Mask, winning it. He then defended it in Georgia., under Ole Anderson. After Black Saturday, Thornton was working in the WWF and appeared on Piper's Pit with his NWA belt, which they just called the "Light Heavyweight Championship of the World." Thornton wrestled for 2 years in the WWF, but was mostly used as a jobber. He was billed, at times, as the WWF Jr Hwt champion. When Thornton went off to the WWF, Crockett put a belt on Hector Guerrero and claimed that he had won a tournament to crown a new World Jr Hwt champion, which was alleged to have taken place in LA. The Los Angeles promotion of Mike LeBell went out of business in 1982 and Mike LeBell sold out promotional and tv interests to Vince McMahon. Mike Davis supposedly won the title in New Mexico, where Crockett did not promote, then dropped it to Denny Brown, at Starrcade. The title is dropped and revived, with Lazer Tron (Hector Guerrero) winning it, then leaving the promotion, leading to Nelson Royal defeating Denny Brown. Royal ended up taking the belt to Ron Fuller's new USA promotion, in Knoxville, defending it against Scott Armstrong. The IWA was a promotion started in the late 70s, with the intent on being a national promotion. Mil Mascaras was their first and only world champion. He took the belt with him and continued to appear as IWA World Champion, decades after the IWA closed shop (they only existed from 1975-78). Lying to the fans came with the profession, as everything about wrestling was pre-determined. In the days before the Internet, wrestling promoter's official history was accepted as gospel by the majority of the fans within a territory. Wrestling magazine readers would have some idea of the truth, though the mags usually followed promoter angles, so as not to upset them and lose access to match photos. That would change in the 80s, with magazines like Wrestling Eye and a couple of others, that partially broke kayfabe to discuss actual history behind title changes and multiple gimmicks used by the same wrestler (such as Plowboy Frazier becoming Uncle Elmer, in the WWF). Cable tv became another factor, as once you saw a wrestler on national tv, it was hard to repackage them as someone else. This is why the late Randy Colley was replaced as Smash, in Demolition, not long after their debut, because audiences were chanting "Moondog" at him, despite having shaved his beard and the facepaint. You had a few last gasp attempts at it, in the early 90s, with the WWF, with Bill irwin, who had been seen in widely syndicated World Class tv, the AWA on ESPN, and World Championship Wrestling, on WTBS, under his own name, be repackaged as The Goon. Dutch Mantell, who was known in Memphis and on WCW was Uncle Zebekiah, with the Godwinns, and then Zeb Coulter, in the WWE. Prior to that, you had fake brothers, fake cousins, fake foreigners, fake veterans, etc, etc. Wrestling grew out of carnival cons and never lost sight of the con aspect to things. Hence, the reason fans are called "marks."
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 6, 2020 0:31:37 GMT -5
Bobby heenan was the greatest manager of all time, though I preferred the AWA Bobby to the WWF. For one, he worked with some of the best workers in the world, vs his WWF stint, where he was managing some guys he shouldn't have. However, he transitioned beautifully into a heel commentator and his rapport with Gorilla Monsoon was priceless and about the only really funny comedy in the WWF, which tended towards some pretty juvenile stuff.
Heenan was the bread and butter, even more than Bruiser, in the WWA, in Indianapolis. He was the top heel and whoever he managed was immediately at the top. He spent years getting his but kicked by Bruiser (who he hated for underpaying him and abusing him in the ring). Bobby was the best bumper and one of the best wrestlers in the business, but, he rarely got into the ring, in the WWF, especially after he injured his neck. In the AWA and WWA he wrestled regularly, in 6-man matches and singles matches, and did the weasel suit angle in both the AWA and WWF (he was Pretty Boy Bobby Heenan, in the WWA, rather than the Brain, and the weasel chants began in the AWA).
Bobby was so effective that someone took a shot at him at the International Amphitheatre, in Chicago, which he discussed with Jim Cornette, in one of their shoot interviews.
Bobby really understood the psychology of the business and when he did shoot interviews, you could really understand his criticisms of the evolution of wrestling, pointing out how managers got devalued and why they could no longer get crowd heat, and how that translated into lower gates at house shows.
Even at the end, when he was emaciated from the cancer, had lost parts of his jaw and the ability to speak, he still had that fire to him. I read accounts from people who met him at shows and he couldn't talk; but, he would use his cane to play around with them and mug for the cameras. It was heartbreaking to see him like that; but, you had to admire his spirit.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2020 5:48:55 GMT -5
Gosh, imagine references to a fictitious tournament today. I can just picture the Twitter hashtags:
#BoycottWWE #Faketournament
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2020 5:51:26 GMT -5
I did watch the Bam Bam Bigelow vs Tazz bout (ECW Living Dangerously 1998) bout on DVD over Christmas. It remains my favourite ECW bout ever.
For me, it felt so natural. So non-contrived. It felt legitimate, it's a match I'd show to a person who has doubts over wrestling. And it took some unpredictable turns (always welcome). At the beginning, it looked like Bigelow would push Tazz, either into the corner or onto the mat. Instead, Tazz caught him in an armlock. That came out of nowhere for me.
If you haven't seen it, I think it stands up well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2020 10:35:00 GMT -5
Rock and Roll Express wins the NWA World Tag Team Championship for the 9th Time!
Jim Cornette Celebrating Them!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2020 14:10:04 GMT -5
Blimey, I had no idea Dean Malenko had been a referee on a 1986 episode of Saturday Night's Main Event:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2020 17:41:27 GMT -5
Wow:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2020 14:35:25 GMT -5
Incidentally, with regards to the Hasbro WWF figures (released between 1990 and 1994), Hogan and Randy Savage got the most figures produced with four apiece.
There were some wrestlers who never got figures. I'm still waiting for a Barbarian figure. Maybe they did produce one, but I never saw it, certainly not from Hasbro.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2020 14:50:22 GMT -5
Incidentally, with regards to the Hasbro WWF figures (released between 1990 and 1994), Hogan and Randy Savage got the most figures produced with four apiece. There were some wrestlers who never got figures. I'm still waiting for a Barbarian figure. Maybe they did produce one, but I never saw it, certainly not from Hasbro. They did one from Hasbro.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2020 14:56:56 GMT -5
Wow! That was not listed on the Hasbro Wikipedia page.
But I never saw it when they sold them here. Could it be a custom? I know some internet guys do customs which include the original packaging.
Still, thanks. Custom or otherwise, I like the look of it.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 8, 2020 0:01:16 GMT -5
Here's a clip of Pat Patterson, with manager the Grand Wizard (Ernie Roth), talking about winning the Intercontinental Title in Rio. Not Vince asks him about the North American title (Warning: French Canadian accent )
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 8, 2020 2:45:45 GMT -5
NWA Powerrr, Ep 13
Recap of Aldis & Morton comments, actions, and the end of the last episode. Show opens with Tim Storm cutting a promo about Aldis ducking their tv title tournament match nd the crowd chants "coward." Kamille comes out at grabs the mic, says nothing, then Storm continues and she slaps him. He stares death at her but won't hit her. PURE....BABYFACE
Trevor Murdoch out with the Dawson Brothers for the next tournament match ups. Zane Dawson's name is drawn. His opponent is drawn.....Dave Dawson! Predictable, but fun. That means Murdoch faces Latimore in the last match up. Murdoch says it will be a hell of a fight. Murdoch cuts a good promo and they really seem to be pushing him as a working class s@#$kicker, ala Stan Hanson and Arn Anderson, which describes Murdoch, to me (he has Dick Murdoch's build but not quite the twinkle in his eye). I'm gonna predict Murdoch wins the belt. So, we will have to test my forecasting skills after the PPV.
Zicky Dice vs Caleb Conley. Dice looks like a cross between Hustler Rip Rogers and Tommy Lane, of the Rock N Roll RPMs. Their heyday was 30 years ago and Dice has been around for about 20 years and hasn't had a heyday. I don't see one in the future. He has all the earmarks of a classic tv jobber. For his alleged experience, he does not have superstar written on him. He bumps all over the place for Caleb Conley, who has the athleticism; but not the psychology. Dice doesn't exactly add that, either. Conley hits a sweet dropkick, but goes for some stupid flippy finished, does a miss spot and Dice gets a neckbreaker and the pin. No logic to the finish as all of the bumping of Dice should have had him down; but, these matches are limited to 6 minutes and 05 seconds (6:05, get it?), so psychology is taking a back seat with most of them. No idea why they are using this guy; but, whatever.
Ringside taped interview with Aron Stevens...excuse me,...."Shooter" Stevens and Question Mark. QM is wearing Stevens' robe and towel and sunglasses over his mask eyeholes and looks goofy as hell. Stevens bables epic nonsense, while QM corrects the pronunciation of karate (kah-rah-tay!) These guys are so much fun!
Thunder Rosa vs ODB, with Allysin Kay on commentary, dressed rather like the ladies who used to hang out at a diner outside one of the gates of Naval Station Charleston, when I was stationed there. ODB hits the power moves and TR does the speed and precision. She is really crisp when she hits something. She gets bounced around and they do the chops to each other, though they are slapping up near the collar bone, unlike the guys, who can go across the pecs. Lot of back and forth, until TR tries a lucha move and gets caught and dumped for a fall away slam. ODB goes up to the ropes, but misses TR and tweaks a knee. TR hits a wicked move wher she is behind ODB's back, grabs her shoulders, then jumps up with her knees against ODB's shoulder blades and drops her backwards onto the mat, in a sort of neckbreaker/backrdop thing. I let out a profanity when I saw that bump as I didn't see how that could be executed without causing some real pain. She finished with the double foot stomp off the top rope, which is another move that looks like it can't be soft sold. TR gets the win and is aiming at Allysin Kay.
Fake ad for the Rock N Roll Express Hotline, we are told to call 1-1-800-ROCK-ROLL. Wait, that's too many numbers! Goofy pre-recorded call where Ricky says that it may be related to the caller's childhood and they hang up. It says to call 24/7. When will they have time to defend the titles?
Aldis out to a ton of crowd heckling. He calls ricky Morton a carnie and talks about his exhibition match with Ricky Starks, coming up.
Starks vs Aldis, with a 6:05 time limit. Starks is competitive throughout, misses a move and tweaks his knee, allowing Aldis to get him in the KingsLynn Cloverleaf. Stark doesn't submit and keeps fighting until time runs out. Ricky Morton comes out, praises Starks and asks Aldis for 5 more minutes for him. Aldis refuses. Morton then challenges him for 5 minutes with a legend. Aldis refuses and leaves. Textbook World Champion elevates hot newcomer match, ala Ric Flair and Barry Windham, Flair and Mike Von Erich, Flair and Brad Armstrong, etc, etc. Champ takes on the rookie, rookie takes him to the time limit, with a few near falls. Now, the traditional spot was another minute or two and the rookie gets a pin to earn a title shot at the next big card, which they would lose. After that, they have the champ's number and usually move up the card. Aldis turns it around by walking out on the extension, drawing even more heat from the crowd.
James Storm & Eli Drake vs Colt Cabana & Ken Anderson vs Wild Cards, in a three way. Wild Cards no-show and it is a standard tag match. Anderson is doing heelish stuff and Colt if confused. Back and forth, with Anderson getting more and more aggressive. Cabana in the ring with Drake and Anderson hits Storm outside the ring, injuring his leg. Colt goes for the Superman cradle and only gets a two count and Anderson shoves the referee and shouts at him. Ref immediately disqualifies them and awards the match to Storm & Drake. Drake lays hands on the ref again and he pushes him off and reads him the riot act, while Colt asks what the hell he's doing. Anderson stares death at him. More talk and the Colt walks away, while Anderson stares death at his back. Definitely setting up Anderson as a psycho heel, who will probably turn on Colt.
They leave the area and out comes Aldis and the Four Horseless (him, Kamille and Wildcards). He calls out Ricky Morton and Robert Gibson and then proposes a 6-man. if Morton's team wins, he gets a title shot. The twist is, neither Morton nor Aldis will be on either team. Aldis says Wild Cards will be in it, then talks about the "Third Man." Out comes Scott Steiner, from the bleachers. So, now Steiner is involved. He wasn't too healthy in TNA and was in bad shape in the WWE; so, not sure what he can physically do anymore. Rock N Roll can't do all their old stuff (Robert can't do the back bend for the Gibson leglock, for one). So, Gibson will be in it; but we don't know about the other two who will be with him.. Starks is a likely candidate; but, I'm betting Tim Storm will be one of the guys.
Another great show. Excellent promos, exciting matches, real heel and babyface reactions; good solid pro wrestling.
Galli was noticeably hoarse (this looks like the second day of tapings), so Bennett is carrying more of the commentary. I long for Cornette; but, that is over. Too bad, 'cause I just wanted to hear Ricky Morton say "Jimmy Cornette," one more time, in his Tennessee accent. It's too bad Bobby Eaton has health issues as that would be awesome, to see him teamed with Robert as one of the three men of Team Morton; but, that also isn't happening. It isn't going to be Ricky Gibson, as he passed away years ago. I suspect they might have another legend up their sleeve; but, it will probably be Gibson and two young guys.
Still the best wrestling show I've seen in years.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 15:11:43 GMT -5
Cost of AEW Full Gear PPV is $59.99 ... Forget it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 17:53:36 GMT -5
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