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Post by Farrar on Aug 28, 2019 14:43:51 GMT -5
I recently had jury duty and brought along Alter Ego #2, with a great Gil Kane Atom cover, to read while waiting. The issue contains features and interviews with Gil Kane, Larry Lieber, and a letter from Kanigher in apparent rebuttal of an earlier AE article. I was surprised to read that Kanigher had actually worked alongside Stanley Kauffmann at Fawcett for a short time. (Kauffmann went on to become an eminent film/theatre/book critic.)
From this issue, regarding his Wonder Woman stint: Kanigher wrote that when he (RK) became WW's editor (and chief writer), former WW editor Shelly Mayer was "grateful for my taking her off his hands. He hated her."
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Post by tarkintino on Aug 28, 2019 14:49:38 GMT -5
Given the major changes going on in the other titles at that time, a change in Supergirl from "nice and harmless" to some form of empowerment would have made sense. Instead she seemed to go the other way. As I've observed, she was still seen as the gimmick tied to Superman. That's all she was--a female Superman, who ended up in a relationship with Brainiac-5. Batgirl was evolving before the end of the 60s and bore no resemblance to the laughing, hands-on-hips, archaic version seen in that dreaded third, final season of the Batman TV series, but Supergirl? She appeared to be doomed to be the nice, smiling female Superman, and it says much that in-universe, she one of the most powerful characters, yet she was rarely treated like that--especially by other heroes. At least it was a way to break the character out of the "She-is-1940s-patriotic-heroine-woman" mold she was still in (for the most part) well into the Silver Age. The "Diana Prince" stories allowed other parts of her character and response to the world to without the cheat of her falling back on powers if thing were beyond her natural abilities. You were never going to see Supergirl handed in that way. Her biggest changes--in Barbie doll-like fashion--were her costumes. |
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Post by MDG on Aug 29, 2019 8:56:54 GMT -5
He seems openly contemptuous of Wonder Woman in many of the stories he wrote and edited. I think you're not far off with the "two Kanighers" thought. From my understanding, he suffered a major mental breakdown partway through his career - I want to say it was in the late 60's or early 70's? - that must have had some effect on his writing. Yeah--WW is pretty much what gave me that impression. Not just contempt for the character, but for people who'd read the book. Again, I'f have to go back, but when I started re-reading a lot of 60s DCs in the 80s, I was struck that a lot of the superhero stories I didn't like as a kid turned out to be by Kanigher.
I have what looks like an original typewriter carbon of a Kanigher script--a short horror/mystery story from the 70s. Turns out he lived in Ardsley, NY, only a few miles from where I grew up.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 29, 2019 18:49:33 GMT -5
I don't think you can say Wonder Woman was still in the same 40s mold, into the Silver Age, as it was so neutered of its fantasy elements, after Marston as to be a pale shadow of the past. The 1940s stories hold up very well, with both an innocent charm and a rather knowing, kinky adult side. The post-Marston stuff is either bland patriotic hero or strange anti-female weirdness, or just goofy fairy tales. The 40s fairy tales at least had charm and agency to them, even if they often got pretty bizarre. However, they were more often bizarre in a good way, vs some of the imagery of the Diana prince era. I love that run; but, the covers turned into practically giallo horror images, with DP more a victim than a heroine in a dramatic situation. It was definitely a darker take on the fetish angle. The stories themselves were a bit of a mix, though "Them," was probably the closest to a modern interpretation of the classic material. Once they went back to the costume, WW was pretty much a generic hero, though about the only female comic star who didn't date Archie Andrews (or hang out with Casper).
As for Supergirl, I do think they were rather regressive, with the odd hiccup that tried something better. I also think that Julie Schwartz probably prevented anything that would rock the Superman boat from occurring (with Carmine well on board. I do think she got to go out on a high note and that Alan Brennert, in one short Christmas tale, did more for that character than almost the entire combined cannon of Supergirl stories. really wish Brennert had worked more steadily in comics.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Aug 30, 2019 2:53:27 GMT -5
Y'know, I kind of think Supergirl just stopped working after the whole "Secret Weapon" thing was dropped in the very early Silver Age. It was a unique spin on the secret identity trope, and sticking her in an orphanage and not even letting people know that Supergirl exists gave her tragic elements that really set her apart. And it's an objective fact that anyone not named "Jim Mooney" drew Supergirl wrong.
Could be wrong, I'm really poorly read on Supergirl in general*, but I never connected with any era of the character. (Until the current TV show, which is the exact kinda goofy, kinda sweet tone I want from modern superheroes.)
* Relatively. I've probably read 50 issues/anthologies/team-up** books featuring the post-Silver Age Supergirl.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Aug 30, 2019 12:04:17 GMT -5
Could be wrong, I'm really poorly read on Supergirl in general*, but I never connected with any era of the character. (Until the current TV show, which is the exact kinda goofy, kinda sweet tone I want from modern superheroes.)
For all its inanities, the show is totally sold by Melissa Benoist who 100% conveys everything about the character that I remember fondly from the Silver Age (even though, like you, I was rarely interested in her actual stories).
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Post by beccabear67 on Aug 31, 2019 17:49:57 GMT -5
It might be I just disliked Wonder Woman's costume all along, as basic as that. I only ever had one '60s issue where they are jousting on kangaroos on the front, but I had a few '70s early '80s issues that were just okay, like Irv Novick Flash... neither bad nor memorable until they #300. I think if Dick Giordano was involved I liked her, Delbo and Colan seemed okay, Andru & Esposito though I preferred on The Metal Men and not really a lot else. I had the Brave & Bold with both Superghirl and WW, and art by John Rosenberg formerly of Archies The Fly and the Jaguar). I wonder why he didn't get a gig as Supergirl artist after that? I didn't much care for the Infantino Supergirl from the early '80s and bailed on that after two issues. I wish Schaffenberger had've had a long run on Supergirl, we had a lot of Mooney, not that i didn't like them, but more Scaffengerger or Curt Swan... I had the one Jimmy Olsen where he marries Supergirl, one of those 'imaginary stories' like aren't they all). She was still a secret at this time I think, but about to be 'revealed' in Action Comics pretty soon. Nice artwork, silly story...  Then there was the one Alan Weiss 'bronze age' Super Team with Supergirl... she was looking very Cheryl Ladd in this, that could've been a good Supergirl to have gone with, she seemed a lot more grounded even as the two male superheroes blame her for things, and then she has to take action along when the three women are kidnapped (including Atom's GF and and Flash's wife).  |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Aug 31, 2019 21:05:47 GMT -5
I had the Brave & Bold with both Superghirl and WW, and art by John Rosenberg formerly of Archies The Fly and the Jaguar). I wonder why he didn't get a gig as Supergirl artist after that? Then there was the one Alan Weiss 'bronze age' Super Team with Supergirl... she was looking very Cheryl Ladd in this, that could've been a good Supergirl to have gone with, she seemed a lot more grounded even as the two male superheroes blame her for things, and then she has to take action along when the three women are kidnapped (including Atom's GF and and Flash's wife). I love Brave and the Bold 63, but it's tough to defend because it's really, really sexist. Like Haney (A) was trying to write a romance story, and (B) really, truly hated romance stories. That super-team family did have great art, although I forget the plot right now. |
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