The First Appearance Debate...Resolved?!?!
Sept 10, 2019 20:35:55 GMT -5
shaxper, Roquefort Raider, and 4 more like this
Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Sept 10, 2019 20:35:55 GMT -5
Recently, there has been a lot of discussion in the comic community surrounding first appearances. This discussion has prompted a lot of healthy (and some unhealthy) debate as well as drive interest in more and more comics.
As an English teacher, the thing that I feel is holding people up is the terminology behind it all. Surely there must be a way to classify all of these appearances in a way that is clear, concise and can accurately account for all of the variations that currently exist. So without further ado, here is my attempt to classify first appearances of characters.
First Prototype Appearance
A prototype appearance is the lowest level of first appearance. Perhaps it is showcasing a character in development or it shows a character who later is fleshed out into a well known character. The quickest examples here that come to mind are Foom #2 (first Wolverine prototype) and Marvel Age #12 (first black suit Spider-Man). These are just images of the characters, there is no story involvement and in these cases, the final design for the character is not ethe same one that appears later in stories.
First Preview Appearance
This label is denoted to an appearance of a character in something like a comic magazine or even as an ad in a comic book. In these cases, it is the actual character. They are beyond a prototype, it is character as it is intended to appear when it appears for the first time. Books like Malibu Sun #13 (not a comic) or Gobbledygook #1 (an ad in a comic book) fit this label.
A book like DC Comics Presents #26 should NOT be labelled a preview in any way. Within, is a full on story depicting the first appearance of the New Teen Titans. In New Teen Titans #1, the events from DCCP #26 have already happened. Granted, it is not their book they appear in but back in the day, comic had multiple stories with multiple characters. This technically was a preview, sure, but to me it does not fit my definition which is showing a character in a non comic or as an ad. DCCP #26 is first appearance of New Teen Titans. New Teen Titans #1 is first cover appearance, second appearance of New Teen Titans.
First Unknown Appearance
I do not like the term “cameo”. To me, a cameo is a minor role of a character that is known outside of their regular series or story. For example, when Spidey shows up in Silver Surfer #14, he is a well known and making a cameo appearance. A character appearing for the first time is not a cameo to me.
Calling the first panel appearance of a character a cameo implies we won’t see them again, at least not often. However, with a lot of these currently labelled cameo appearances, we do get a panel or more and the character becomes very much involved in the next couple issues and subsequent issues beyond.
So I am proposing a change in terminology here. Woah. You can do that? Yup, and I am. Allow me to try to explain the “first unknown appearance”. This label is designated to characters that we see but not enough to get a sense of their appearance (hence, the unknown part). Perhaps it is a dark face in a trenchcoat (think Killer Croc in Batman #357…which is currently his first full appearance but I strongly disagree with that). This should be first unknown appearance. Sure, we know his name but we don’t have a face to that name. We don’t know is “full appearance”, we cannot accurately describe him. His appearance is unknown to us. Sure, we can describe his body but you could put anybody in that trenchcoat...we need the face. Similarly, in Amazing Spider-Man #298, we see a dark a dark shadow and a hand. It is later clear this is Venom but we don’t get a full sense what he looks like. Thus, these are first unknown appearances.
First Appearance
My definition for first appearance is simple and answers the following question: Do we see enough of the character to visually know who they are? If the answer is yes, then it is a first appearance. Hulk #180 features a full panel of Wolverine. We clearly see him and we know who he is but most importantly, what he looks like. In Amazing Spider-Man #299, we see Venom in full at the end. We can now identify this character, thus it is his first appearance. In Jimmy Olsen #134, we can clearly see Darkseid’s face on a monitor. It may not be a full body shot, but it is enough to know if we see it again (with a body drawn) we know “hey, that’s Darkseid!”. With Killer Croc, we do not get that until Detective Comics #524…making Detective #523 and Batman #357 “unknown appearances”, first and second respectively.
A character who first appears in a book and plays a major role throughout will only ever be classified as a first appearance. They appear for the first time, clearly, and there is no argument. Amazing Spider-Man #129 is the first appearance of the Punisher. No debate. His first appearance is easily discernable, there is nothing prior to be noted and subsequent appearances are easy to note.
First Full Appearance
This label is denoted to a character who has already appeared before visually but in less than 5 panels. For example, Wolverine appears in less than five panels in Hulk #180. That comic would have a label as being his “first appearance”. Hulk #181 would be labelled “Second appearance, first full appearance. Hulk #182 would simply be “Third appearance of Wolverine”.
Some further examples:
Amazing Spider-Man #299 is “first appearance of Venom”. Issue #300 is “Second appearance, first full appearance of Venom.”
Jimmy Olsen #134 is “first appearance of Darkseid”. Forever People #1 is “second appearance, first full appearance of Darkseid”.
Amazing Fantasy #15 is "first appearance of Spider-Man". No other notation means it is definitive
First Cover Appearance
This last label is reserved for the first time a character appears on a cover. This label is SEPARATE from appearances in continuity and comes about largely due to the fact that you have had (in recent years) variant covers which feature a character to come but the story itself does not contain the character whatsoever. It is simply the first time the character appears on the cover.
So, for a standard book like ASM #129, it should be labelled “first appearance and first cover appearance of Punisher.” If a character has appeared prior in a story but not on a cover, the first time they are on the cover gets labelled. No matter how small. A head, a face, a full on glorious action shot.
Amazing Spider-Man #315 is first cover appearance of Venom (just a head but by my definition, still can be noted as a first cover appearance)
Another example. Avengers #195 features the first appearance of Taskmaster. He is fully shown on the final page. This comic will be labelled hi first appearance. Issue #196 features him on the cover and for more than 5 panels, thus it is his “second appearance, first full appearance and first cover appearance”.
A final example. Ronin first appeared on a variant cover only of New Avengers #1. He is there but nowhere in the story. This is his first cover appearance. In New Avengers #11, he appears for the first time in the story and on the cover. This should be labelled as his “first appearance”.
The Messy Stuff
Now, a couple of things muddy the waters on my labelling. The biggest is Sgt. Rock. So currently, GI Combat #68 is labelled as a “Sgt Rock prototype”. Now, it is my understanding that even though this character is not fully fleshed out, we get an origin tale for a soldier called “The Rock”. My understanding is that this origin is later attached to Sgt. Rock. So it is the same character all along, even if the writers/artists did not know 100% what they were doing. For me, that means it is the first appearance. He evolves into Sgt. Rock and the fact they keep his origin part of his story (as well as his other currently labelled “prototype” appearances which should just be subsequent appearances). The name changes by adding a rank…that is pretty much it.
A second one that could cause problems but doesn’t seem to too much is Rocket Raccoon. In Marvel Preview #7, the character is called Rocky Raccoon. However, in Hulk #271, we get Rocket. It is explained in the issue though that Rocky was short for Rocket. So it’s the same character. Simple.
Will This Matter?
Will this matter to anyone? Maybe, and maybe not. I just found it an interesting topic to flesh out. I think these labels would be best suited for CGC to adapt and terminology for collector’s to use. It seems simple to me. Maybe a lot of writing which some people complain about as is (wanting less label and more focus drawn to the comic).
As for what people want to spend their money on, that is a different opinion. For me, the cover of Hulk #181 will always, hands down I dare anyone to argue against it, be the superior looking cover. So why can’t it be more valuable? Why does the first appearance have to be the most expensive when the second appearance and first full appearance and first cover appearance is amazing.
Same goes for ASM #300. Iconic cover, iconic moment in the title’s history and looks so much better than #299.
Same for Avengers #196 over #195. And many others.
Your Thoughts?
Thank you for your time reading this. I am 100% sure there are examples out there that do not fit into my labels. I welcome all examples. This is a starting point that I am hoping we can build on. I am hoping people can find a book that does not work for my labels so that we can have some discussion! I don't have aspirations of changing anything here but I am interested in trying to find a way to word all of these different appearances that is at least a little more clear.
As an English teacher, the thing that I feel is holding people up is the terminology behind it all. Surely there must be a way to classify all of these appearances in a way that is clear, concise and can accurately account for all of the variations that currently exist. So without further ado, here is my attempt to classify first appearances of characters.
First Prototype Appearance
A prototype appearance is the lowest level of first appearance. Perhaps it is showcasing a character in development or it shows a character who later is fleshed out into a well known character. The quickest examples here that come to mind are Foom #2 (first Wolverine prototype) and Marvel Age #12 (first black suit Spider-Man). These are just images of the characters, there is no story involvement and in these cases, the final design for the character is not ethe same one that appears later in stories.
First Preview Appearance
This label is denoted to an appearance of a character in something like a comic magazine or even as an ad in a comic book. In these cases, it is the actual character. They are beyond a prototype, it is character as it is intended to appear when it appears for the first time. Books like Malibu Sun #13 (not a comic) or Gobbledygook #1 (an ad in a comic book) fit this label.
A book like DC Comics Presents #26 should NOT be labelled a preview in any way. Within, is a full on story depicting the first appearance of the New Teen Titans. In New Teen Titans #1, the events from DCCP #26 have already happened. Granted, it is not their book they appear in but back in the day, comic had multiple stories with multiple characters. This technically was a preview, sure, but to me it does not fit my definition which is showing a character in a non comic or as an ad. DCCP #26 is first appearance of New Teen Titans. New Teen Titans #1 is first cover appearance, second appearance of New Teen Titans.
First Unknown Appearance
I do not like the term “cameo”. To me, a cameo is a minor role of a character that is known outside of their regular series or story. For example, when Spidey shows up in Silver Surfer #14, he is a well known and making a cameo appearance. A character appearing for the first time is not a cameo to me.
Calling the first panel appearance of a character a cameo implies we won’t see them again, at least not often. However, with a lot of these currently labelled cameo appearances, we do get a panel or more and the character becomes very much involved in the next couple issues and subsequent issues beyond.
So I am proposing a change in terminology here. Woah. You can do that? Yup, and I am. Allow me to try to explain the “first unknown appearance”. This label is designated to characters that we see but not enough to get a sense of their appearance (hence, the unknown part). Perhaps it is a dark face in a trenchcoat (think Killer Croc in Batman #357…which is currently his first full appearance but I strongly disagree with that). This should be first unknown appearance. Sure, we know his name but we don’t have a face to that name. We don’t know is “full appearance”, we cannot accurately describe him. His appearance is unknown to us. Sure, we can describe his body but you could put anybody in that trenchcoat...we need the face. Similarly, in Amazing Spider-Man #298, we see a dark a dark shadow and a hand. It is later clear this is Venom but we don’t get a full sense what he looks like. Thus, these are first unknown appearances.
First Appearance
My definition for first appearance is simple and answers the following question: Do we see enough of the character to visually know who they are? If the answer is yes, then it is a first appearance. Hulk #180 features a full panel of Wolverine. We clearly see him and we know who he is but most importantly, what he looks like. In Amazing Spider-Man #299, we see Venom in full at the end. We can now identify this character, thus it is his first appearance. In Jimmy Olsen #134, we can clearly see Darkseid’s face on a monitor. It may not be a full body shot, but it is enough to know if we see it again (with a body drawn) we know “hey, that’s Darkseid!”. With Killer Croc, we do not get that until Detective Comics #524…making Detective #523 and Batman #357 “unknown appearances”, first and second respectively.
A character who first appears in a book and plays a major role throughout will only ever be classified as a first appearance. They appear for the first time, clearly, and there is no argument. Amazing Spider-Man #129 is the first appearance of the Punisher. No debate. His first appearance is easily discernable, there is nothing prior to be noted and subsequent appearances are easy to note.
First Full Appearance
This label is denoted to a character who has already appeared before visually but in less than 5 panels. For example, Wolverine appears in less than five panels in Hulk #180. That comic would have a label as being his “first appearance”. Hulk #181 would be labelled “Second appearance, first full appearance. Hulk #182 would simply be “Third appearance of Wolverine”.
Some further examples:
Amazing Spider-Man #299 is “first appearance of Venom”. Issue #300 is “Second appearance, first full appearance of Venom.”
Jimmy Olsen #134 is “first appearance of Darkseid”. Forever People #1 is “second appearance, first full appearance of Darkseid”.
Amazing Fantasy #15 is "first appearance of Spider-Man". No other notation means it is definitive
First Cover Appearance
This last label is reserved for the first time a character appears on a cover. This label is SEPARATE from appearances in continuity and comes about largely due to the fact that you have had (in recent years) variant covers which feature a character to come but the story itself does not contain the character whatsoever. It is simply the first time the character appears on the cover.
So, for a standard book like ASM #129, it should be labelled “first appearance and first cover appearance of Punisher.” If a character has appeared prior in a story but not on a cover, the first time they are on the cover gets labelled. No matter how small. A head, a face, a full on glorious action shot.
Amazing Spider-Man #315 is first cover appearance of Venom (just a head but by my definition, still can be noted as a first cover appearance)
Another example. Avengers #195 features the first appearance of Taskmaster. He is fully shown on the final page. This comic will be labelled hi first appearance. Issue #196 features him on the cover and for more than 5 panels, thus it is his “second appearance, first full appearance and first cover appearance”.
A final example. Ronin first appeared on a variant cover only of New Avengers #1. He is there but nowhere in the story. This is his first cover appearance. In New Avengers #11, he appears for the first time in the story and on the cover. This should be labelled as his “first appearance”.
The Messy Stuff
Now, a couple of things muddy the waters on my labelling. The biggest is Sgt. Rock. So currently, GI Combat #68 is labelled as a “Sgt Rock prototype”. Now, it is my understanding that even though this character is not fully fleshed out, we get an origin tale for a soldier called “The Rock”. My understanding is that this origin is later attached to Sgt. Rock. So it is the same character all along, even if the writers/artists did not know 100% what they were doing. For me, that means it is the first appearance. He evolves into Sgt. Rock and the fact they keep his origin part of his story (as well as his other currently labelled “prototype” appearances which should just be subsequent appearances). The name changes by adding a rank…that is pretty much it.
A second one that could cause problems but doesn’t seem to too much is Rocket Raccoon. In Marvel Preview #7, the character is called Rocky Raccoon. However, in Hulk #271, we get Rocket. It is explained in the issue though that Rocky was short for Rocket. So it’s the same character. Simple.
Will This Matter?
Will this matter to anyone? Maybe, and maybe not. I just found it an interesting topic to flesh out. I think these labels would be best suited for CGC to adapt and terminology for collector’s to use. It seems simple to me. Maybe a lot of writing which some people complain about as is (wanting less label and more focus drawn to the comic).
As for what people want to spend their money on, that is a different opinion. For me, the cover of Hulk #181 will always, hands down I dare anyone to argue against it, be the superior looking cover. So why can’t it be more valuable? Why does the first appearance have to be the most expensive when the second appearance and first full appearance and first cover appearance is amazing.
Same goes for ASM #300. Iconic cover, iconic moment in the title’s history and looks so much better than #299.
Same for Avengers #196 over #195. And many others.
Your Thoughts?
Thank you for your time reading this. I am 100% sure there are examples out there that do not fit into my labels. I welcome all examples. This is a starting point that I am hoping we can build on. I am hoping people can find a book that does not work for my labels so that we can have some discussion! I don't have aspirations of changing anything here but I am interested in trying to find a way to word all of these different appearances that is at least a little more clear.
