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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Sept 15, 2019 8:08:00 GMT -5
Couple questions here:
1. The whole Tomb of Dracula run...good read? I have a couple issues but am wondering about the entire run.
2. Dracula Lives magazines...similar question are the stories good and do they tie in at all with Tomb of Dracula?
I ask because I am looking at an opportunity to acquire both runs (minus issue 10 as the seller wants to grade). Everything is in 9.0 or better shape which rocks but I wanna know if the stories are good.
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Post by The Captain on Sept 15, 2019 8:24:13 GMT -5
I can only speak to Tomb of Dracula, but my opinion is that it is a consistently-above-average read for the majority of the series, although it does lose its way a little toward the end. It might seem that Marv Wolfman was either running out of ideas or losing interest in the title, but I think it was more that he had too much on his plate. By issue #57, which came out in June 1977, he was writing Doctor Strange, John Carter: Warlord of Mars, Marvel Two-in-One, Nova, and Power Man, and when issue #65 came out in July 1978, he was writing Fantastic Four, John Carter, Nova, Spider-Woman, and Amazing Spider-Man on top of ToD. Gene Colan's artwork is always good, and it fits this series much better, to my taste, than it ever did on Captain America or Daredevil.
If you can get this for a decent price (and sorry to hear about the #10; I luckily picked up 25 years ago for about $8), it's definitely worth checking out.
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Post by Cei-U! on Sept 15, 2019 8:43:59 GMT -5
Buy it. Buy it all. Buy it now.
Tomb of Dracula is right up there with Conan the Barbarian, Howard the Duck, and Master of Kung Fu as must-read Marvels of the 1970s. The early, pre-Wolfman stories flounder a bit, as the various writers (Conway, Goodwin, Fox) work out Drac's history, powers, and weaknesses but they also set up the series' core supporting cast. Wolfman's scripting can be overwrought at times, but his plotting is solid and his characterizations superb. His Dracula is one of the most complex comic book characters ever. The majority of the stories in Dracula Lives are set in the past, detailing Drac's origin and backstory. Colan is on hand from time to time, but it's interesting to see how other artists like Neal Adams, Mike Ploog, Jim Starlin, John Buscema, Alan Weiss, Vicente Alcazar, Dick Yers, and Val Mayerick interpret the king of vampires. Later issues feature an adaptation of the Bram Stoker novel by Roy Thomas and Dick Giotdano. Somewhere down the road, you'll also want to pick up Giant-Size Chillers #1 (which ties in directly to ToD) and Giant-Size Dracula #2-5 (more tales from Drac's past as written by Chris Claremont).
Trust me, dude. You want these.
Cei-U! I summon the enthusiastic recommendation!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2019 10:16:20 GMT -5
Tomb of Dracula is unbelievably good and every issue of that series in my opinion is graded B- to A+ ... mostly A and that's speaks for itself. I don't know anything about Dracula Lives at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2019 11:08:41 GMT -5
I read Tomb of Dracula about 4 years ago (an "Essential" volume). Most compelling. Great art. But having read it over 2-3 days, it did make me wary with Dracula constantly avoiding capture/death. Incidentally, I can recommend The Dracula File, originally published in Scream! (1984).
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Post by kirby101 on Sept 15, 2019 11:43:20 GMT -5
Colan and Palmer, what more do you need to know?
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Post by profh0011 on Sept 15, 2019 12:03:37 GMT -5
TOMB OF DRACULA was a bit of a mess when it started. As on multiple other occasions, Roy Thomas wanted to do this, but passed it on to his pal Gerry Conway, universally held as one of the worst writers in comics. However, Gene Colan REALLY wanted to do this series, and practically fought off anyone else who might have been in the running to get on it. It was initially planned as a B&W magazine, but when the 1st issue of SAVAGE TALES failed due to distribution problems, it was put on hold for a couple of years. The 1st issue, when it finally materialized, the art had to be re-formatted to fit the color comic size, and reproduction of Colan's art was dodgy.
Once it got into motion, there was the usual chaos on the inking front, as they had Vince Coletta, Tom Palmer, Ernie Chan, Jack Abel & Colletta again taking turns before they thankfully settled down to Tom Palmer. Colan & Palmer had proved to be an INCREDIBLE combo during their run of DR. STRANGE, and from issue #12-up, remained in place until the final issue #70.
Conway bailed after 2 episodes, followed by 2 issues by Archie Goodwin, 2 by Gardner Fox (who somehow never seemed to fit in with the way they did things at Marvel), and then, Marv Wolfman. Of the 5 writers involved (including Thomas), Goodwin seemed to be the only one who knew what he was doing, but he never seemed to want to hang around long on any one series (other than his time on IRON MAN, which, ironically, is probably my least-favorite of all the work Goodwin ever did).
When he started, Wolfman was the WORST of the bunch!!! But my feeling is, Wolfman saw TOD as his big opportunity, and decided to stick around and make a mark for himself. Apparently, through sheer stick-to-it-iveness and determination, he slowly improved, and after about 20 consecutive issues, actually started to become a better writer. When I read the entire run in ESSENTIAL TOMB OF DRACULA, the most annoying thing in his early issues was the then-common bad habit of introducing elements of the NEXT storyline, one page at a time, in the current storyline. Every time these stand-alone pages crop up, they're really irritating, and painfully out of place. But apart from that, it's interesting to see a guy totally out of his depth get better and better right before your eyes.
By around #50, Wolfman had gotten pretty damned good, and the last 20 issues of the book are widely considered among the finest from anybody in 70s Marvel.
An amusing anecdote, is that-- somewhere along the line-- I forget exactly where-- Gene Colan felt burned out on doing the series, and took a break to do other things. However, about 6 MONTHS later, he felt refreshed and asked to come back. Incredibly-- Colan had been SO FAR ahead on the schedule... that when he came back, he found out, he HADN'T missed an issue. As a result, the book had Colan on ALL 70 issues in a row without a break.
The ESSENTIAL books, wisely, kept the GIANTS and DRACULA LIVES stories separate from the main run. I believe the GIANTS were somewhat part of the continuity (though mostly done by other artists), but the bulk of the DRACULA LIVES stories, done by rotating creative teams, mostly focused on other eras in time, and can be read in any order desired. I've sometimes thought it might be fun to read them in chronological sequence, according to what year they took place in.
There's a Japanese animated film that actually adapts the last year or so of TOD rather faithfully, though from what I've seen of it, it does absolutely NOTHING to capture the look or feel of the comics. A shame.
At some point, a B&W magazine version of TOMB OF DRACULA began, and Marv Wolfman & Gene Colan hoped to continue on from where #70 left off, doing different types of stories in the different format. However, after only one issue, the editor on the book apparently decided to pull rank and show who was boss, by replacing Palmer with Bob McLeod, and both Wolfman & Colan left right after that. The revived series became a round-robin of creative teams, and quickly floundered before being cancelled.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,222
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Post by Confessor on Sept 15, 2019 12:37:46 GMT -5
Incidentally, I can recommend The Dracula File, originally published in Scream! (1984). Classic!
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Post by spoon on Sept 15, 2019 12:41:15 GMT -5
I read the first two Essential volumes (reprinting #1-49) years ago, and it was very, very good.
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Post by Cei-U! on Sept 15, 2019 14:46:15 GMT -5
Gerry Conway, universally held as one of the worst writers in comics. That's neither accurate nor fair. I'll be the first to agree that Conway had a bad habit of cranking out the comics for a paycheck (some of his Marvel Team-Ups make my brain hurt), but when he was actually engaged in a particular series, he could be very good indeed. I think his runs on Amazing Spider-Man and Batman are terrific, and I had a great fondness for his Daredevil while that series was set in San Francisco. His Atari Force run with Garcia-Lopez is damn good. You're certainly entitled to your opinion but, as years of comics-related message boards have proved, no creator is "universally" loved or hated.
Cei-U! I summon the restrained rebuttal!
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Post by tarkintino on Sept 15, 2019 15:22:46 GMT -5
Couple questions here: 1. The whole Tomb of Dracula run...good read? I have a couple issues but am wondering about the entire run. 2. Dracula Lives magazines...similar question are the stories good and do they tie in at all with Tomb of Dracula? I ask because I am looking at an opportunity to acquire both runs (minus issue 10 as the seller wants to grade). Everything is in 9.0 or better shape which rocks but I wanna know if the stories are good. If I were you, I would start with ToD. Its a solid series that built on the Stoker concept, while borrowing from popular, then contemporary vampires from TV and film to make Dracula "fit" in the modern world. I would also suggest you read his key appearances in the second Doctor Strange series (it took forever for Marvel to realize that the Sorcerer Supreme would be the perfect adversary for a vampire, but it paid off better than one can imagine) and this one-off: This summer 1974 special would seem an unlikely meeting, but Spider-Man already dipped his toes into horror waters battling characters with Morbius. The Dracula confrontation is short, strange and interesting. While I would never go as far as to crown this the best Marvel monthly of the 1970s (the decade's first 4 1/2 years of The Amazing Spider-Man wins that in an unquestionable landslide), it is in the top 10 Marvel titles from that decade.
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Post by badwolf on Sept 15, 2019 18:17:39 GMT -5
I read the first thirty-odd issues of Tomb in the omnibus earlier this year and thought it was great for the most part. It does have a shaky start as others have said, but that's only the first few issues. The biggest problem of the series is that since the villain is the star of the book, you know the heroes are never going to succeed in destroying him. They probably could have destroyed him many times over if they didn't keep announcing their presence or what they were going to use to destroy him just beforehand. It's just one of those stylistic tropes you have to accept, I guess. Gene Colan's art is gorgeous.
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Post by berkley on Sept 16, 2019 1:17:11 GMT -5
Cei-U already said basically what I think but I'll add my voice to his praise of ToD as one of the very best examples of 70s Marvel comics. Actually I'd say One of the best extended runs by a creator team ever, never mind Marvle or the 70s. I thnk it's worth starting from the beginning because the Colan artwork is stunning from #1 (though I'm aware not everyone's a fan of his style) and while the as a series the book doesn't have much flow, I think each individual issue is still a really good comic on its own.
I'd also say that Wolfman finds his feet long before #50 (sorry to disagree with Profh011), so if you're thinking of reading only his run I'd start much earlier - from memory, somewhere in the #20s, or probably even before that (and you'll still be missing a lot of great stuff!).
I don't think I've read the Giant-Size Spider-Man comic Tarkantino recommended, so no opinion on it. In general, I don't like mixing superheroes with other genres, partly because I find it almost always works to the detriment of whatever makes the other genre enjoyable, but also because of the disparities in tone and atmosphere, though I suppose those two problems do overlap. However, I haven't dared hold on to this as a hard and fast rule since I was a teenager, when the Claremont-Byrne MTU Spider-Man + Red Sonja issue prved me wrong.
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Post by brutalis on Sept 16, 2019 7:34:07 GMT -5
Not much I can add to the love for TOD, other than to say this was the way to highlight a villain as the "star" of a book and keeping it interesting and entertaining. Wolfman made a name for himself and Colan/Palmer showed the young up and comers how it should be done artistically. Mood, atmosphere, depth, texture and importantly, that a lot of characterization can be derived from and shown in the designing of the people and the world inhabiting a comic book. Colan's people felt real and connected to the world they lived in and as combined with Wolman's writing, their story has endured for repeat readings far longer than many others...
There is a reason this continues to being reprinted in so many different versions!
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Post by MWGallaher on Sept 16, 2019 8:05:55 GMT -5
I happen to think that the pre-Wolfman issues of TOD are still pretty enjoyable reads; I liked getting a few issues based around Dracula's castle, and I dug the "Dark Shadows" vibe they were generating. Once Wolfman gets going, there's no question we're in classic territory, the high point of Colan's career for sure. Dracula Lives is disappointing in contrast, mainly because it lacks the supporting cast of the modern-day saga, and has a lot of art that doesn't match the quality of Gene Colan's. It also contradicts the implications that TOD made by reviving Dracula in a variety of different time periods between the Stoker novel and what was presumed to be Dracula's initial revival in TOD #1. Warning to completists: there's a "forgotten" Dracula Lives story that was published in Marvel Preview #12 that Marvel missed when reprinting all the other vintage Dracula stories in collections like the Essentials and Tomb of Dracula Omnibus #3 (which collected Dracula Lives and Tomb of Dracula B&W magazine and the other B&W installments).
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