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Post by byronlomax on Jan 25, 2015 15:31:51 GMT -5
The run of Michael Golden covers beginning with this issue contains some of my very favourite Batman images. Obviously they're "character just posing" images but they're excellent, and really capture Batman in his essence. I really like some of the George Pratt and Scott Hampton covers coming up as well.
As for the issue.... I agree Abattoir is a forgettable villain overall, and the issue is a bit of a mess, but overall it has enough twists and turns to make it worthwhile. It's a pity the artwork got messed up so badly, though.
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Post by shaxper on Jan 27, 2015 20:16:46 GMT -5
Legends of the Dark Knight #14  My reviews for previous chapters in this story arc: Part 1Part 2Part 3"Prey, Part IV: The Nightmare" writer: Doug Moench pencils: Paul Gulacy inks: Terry Austin letters: John Costanza colors: Steve Oliff assistant editor: Kevin Dooley editor: Andrew Helfer grade: A- The pacing is still odd, here, as we only have one chapter of this saga left, and yet Batman is at rock bottom, and we see no signs yet that things are going to turn around. Considering that Moench has spent four issues laying out the problem, I wonder how he plans to solve it all in one. That being said, though this issue does little more than kick Batman in the emotional crotch, it's beautifully done, with some masterful writing from Moench and some of Gulacy's best art ever. A few examples:   Additionally, when Moench writes Batman's internal narration after he's been drugged, forced to relive his parents' murder, and pursued by cops with orders to kill, it feels startlingly real, as it would to actually be in Bruce's head at that moment: Just an incredibly well done psychological breakdown of The Batman. And, speaking of which, as I noted far earlier in this thread, Moench used Batman #400 as a template for much of his later Knightfall storyline, but it's clear that he recycled elements of this issue into that story as well, as we watch a villain psychologically break Batman through a combination of exhaustion, hallucinogen gas, and Batman being forced to relive his most traumatic memory while all of his emotional guards are down (here, the death of his parents; there, the death of Jason Todd). And, as long as we're discussing borrowing, it's abundantly clear how purposefully this story continues to work to align itself with Year One. In this case, Batman is being pursued by cops while exhausted and, to top it all off, when he returns home, we get a monologue that feels straight out of Year One: Again, this is pretty much the perfect sequel to Year One, mimicking its style and scope perfectly, all while better exploring Bruce's internal characterization. Important Details: - Hugo Strange has learned Bruce's true identity. How in the world is Moench going to handle that one at the close? Strange's primary strategy for dealing with Batman is to publicly discredit him. Unless Moench has the go-ahead to kill or severely mentally damage Strange, I don't see how he's going to handle this. There's no way Strange is going to sit on that secret. - Similarly, we've been given hints by multiple writers now that Gordon is close to knowing Batman's identity but simply chooses not to explore it any further. In this story, he's now been informed that Strange was researching husband and wife homicides from the last twenty years in trying to figure out who Batman really is. How is Gordon not going to put two and two together on that one? Minor Details: - It's about time Moench played his cards in regard to Catwoman. She makes appearances in each issue thus far, this time doing Yoga while listening to the news and commenting that Batman didn't commit the kidnapping, and yet she has been completely incidental to the plot thus far. Where is Moench going with her? - This story seems to ignore Mike W. Barr's Year Two in that there's no indication, as Bruce relives his parents' murders, that he knows who the gunman was. In fact, instead of being depicted with the tell-tale cap Joe Chill donned in the Year Two story, the gunman who killed the Waynes looks far more similar to the Batman: The Animated Series version of The Joker. Was Gulacy following the continuity of the 1989 Batman film?? Joe Chill in Batman Year Two:  The gunman as depicted here:  plot synopsis in one sentence: The Mayor, believing his daughter was kidnapped by Batman, orders Gordon to bring him in or lose his job, Gordon gives Cort permission to take Batman down by any means necessary, Cort tells his men to shoot to kill, Batman narrowly escapes Cort's men and confronts Hugo Strange, only to be hit with hallucinagenic gas that causes him to relive the death of his parents, giving Strange the final clues he needs to figure out Batman's identity, and Gordon figures out that Cort and Strange are working together to take down Batman, while Bruce returns home, exhausted, only to be haunted by mannequins of his parents Strange has set up in his house, each playing recordings designed to induce guilt and madness, causing Bruce to strike out blindly at Alfred and ultimately collapse, broken, at the base of the steps going down to the Batcave. To be continued... |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 27, 2015 20:58:56 GMT -5
Legends of the Dark Knight #14 My reviews for previous chapters in this story arc: Part 1Part 2Part 3"Prey, Part IV: The Nightmare" writer: Doug Moench pencils: Paul Gulacy inks: Terry Austin letters: John Costanza colors: Steve Oliff assistant editor: Kevin Dooley editor: Andrew Helfer grade: A- Minor Details: - This story seems to ignore Mike W. Barr's Year Two in that there's no indication, as Bruce relives his parents' murders, that he knows who the gunman was. In fact, instead of being depicted with the tell-tale cap Joe Chill donned in the Year Two story, the gunman who killed the Waynes looks far more similar to the Batman: The Animated Series version of The Joker. Was Gulacy following the continuity of the 1989 Batman film?? Joe Chill in Batman Year Two: The gunman as depicted here:  Minor Details: - It's about time Moench played his cards in regard to Catwoman. She makes appearances in each issue thus far, this time doing Yoga while listening to the news and commenting that Batman didn't commit the kidnapping, and yet she has been completely incidental to the plot thus far. Where is Moench going with her? plot synopsis in one sentence: The Mayor, believing his daughter was kidnapped by Batman, orders Gordon to bring him in or lose his job, Gordon gives Cort permission to take Batman down by any means necessary, Cort tells his men to shoot to kill, Batman narrowly escapes Cort's men and confronts Hugo Strange, only to be hit with hallucinagenic gas that causes him to relive the death of his parents, giving Strange the final clues he needs to figure out Batman's identity, and Gordon figures out that Cort and Strange are working together to take down Batman, while Bruce returns home, exhausted, only to be haunted by mannequins of his parents Strange has set up in his house, each playing recordings designed to induce guilt and madness, causing Bruce to strike out blindly at Alfred and ultimately collapse, broken, at the base of the steps going down to the Batcave. To be continued... I don't know if it was meant to be set in the movie continuity, but there is a clear influence here in the panel you picked and in the batmobile we'll see in the next issue which looks very similar to the one in he '89 film. And you're not wrong about the pacing, the way Moench beautifully portrays Batman's psychological break down took time and that time kind of paints him into a corner. The next issue is far from a train wreck but it does go awfully fast. The thing to keep in mind when you read this is that Moench wanted to mimic the feel of the Golden Age and that he would follow it up in another Legend of the Dark Knight story titled "Terror". |
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Post by shaxper on Jan 27, 2015 21:08:04 GMT -5
he would follow it up in another Legend of the Dark Knight story titled "Terror". I had no idea there was a follow-up. Looks like it's a LONG way off, but I just might have to skip ahead and read it anyway. |
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Post by shaxper on Jan 27, 2015 21:09:31 GMT -5
I don't know if it was meant to be set in the movie continuity, I don't mean to imply that this was the specific intent. Clearly, the goal is to align with Year One (which was NOT the 1989 film continuity), but perhaps Gulacy saw the film and assumed that the Joker having killed his parents was comic-accurate. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 27, 2015 21:29:56 GMT -5
he would follow it up in another Legend of the Dark Knight story titled "Terror". I had no idea there was a follow-up. Looks like it's a LONG way off, but I just might have to skip ahead and read it anyway. I haven't read it in a long time but I remember thinking it was fun but not as good as Prey, but then again Prey sets the bar pretty high. I don't know if it was meant to be set in the movie continuity, I don't mean to imply that this was the specific intent. Clearly, the goal is to align with Year One (which was NOT the 1989 film continuity), but perhaps Gulacy saw the film and assumed that the Joker having killed his parents was comic-accurate. Could be, or what I've always thought was that he just liked that element and decided to sneak in shout out to it in an easter egg sort of way. |
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Post by chadwilliam on Feb 1, 2015 22:14:08 GMT -5
Detective Comics #625  "Abattoir!" I picked this issue up again after reading your review which suggested that it would read better than I remembered it. It did. And there's a few things I picked up on as well, due to your review.
Vicki Vale's Instability
This was actually touched upon in Batman 457 which would have been only a month old here. Because it involves the Scarecrow's fear gas though, it might suggest only that Vicki Vale is as susceptible to Crane's toxins as anybody else, but she does undergo some psychological trauma at the hands of that issue's villain (the memory of her puppy being run over). Again, there's nothing to suggest that once the fear gas wears off she won't be perfectly fine, but it does seem like an interesting correlation if nothing else between issues that are only one month apart.
And you know what? I like how Alan Grant's Batman handles the situation better than I do Marv Wolfman's. Grant has Batman consoling Vicki, telling her that she'll be alright, careful not to leave her side until the police arrive. His cape is almost draped over her like that of a bird protecting its young. Wolfman's Batman seems to treat it more as a problem to be solved by Bruce Wayne's money.
Batman 457
Vicki (shivering, muttering to herself): --all the blood everywhere--
Batman: It's Okay, Vicki. You'll be alright.
Detective 625
Vicki: Oh, my God...my God. So... so close...
Batman has her back to her. Vicki looks up at where he stood. He's vanished.
Vicki: Th-they're both gone.
Cut to Gordon consoling Vicki as he approaches Bruce Wayne's limo.
Bruce Wayne: Vicki? I heard gunshots. Are you alright?
This scene incidentally, bothered me more (for another reason) than your question, Shaxper of How Did Batman Defeat Abattoir?
Alright, so Abattoir has a gun pointed at Vicki's head, right? He tells Batman that he'll shoot her "just off to the side so she lingers...or you let me leave". What does Batman do? He charges towards Abattoir. Actually, he charges towards Abattoir while the killer orders him to "stay where you are until I'm--" and then, in the very next panel, Batman finishes Abattoir's sentence for him ("Gone.") while looking around the room as if he's vanished into thin air. Why did Batman endanger Vicki's life like that? Why didn't Abattoir kill Vicki as he said he would (since he really isn't the bluffing type)? How did Abattoir disappear when Batman was running straight at him? And why doesn't Batman care that Vicki is clearly traumatized here? Is rushing back to his limo to keep up the pretense that he's Bruce Wayne that important in this moment?
Gordon surprised by Batman
Gordon twice in this issue reminds Batman that he can't use violence as it's against regulations. Maybe that's why Batman's method for dealing with Abattoir is to dump a pile of bones on him and leave, but it seems like I'm not the only one who thinks Marv Wolfman's Batman is heartless and cold.
O' Neil's Stance as Editor
In 1986/87 Denny O Neil had to decide how he wanted the Batman of his reign to behave. He also knew that his job was to make money for the franchise. Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns and Year One were all the rage at the start of O Neil's editorship and it would have made sense to either hire only those writers capable of channeling Miller - such as Jim Starlin and Marv Wolfman (Wolfman's "He talked? Just like that?" "Just like that!" scene in this issue reminds me of Miller's "Rubber bullets. Honest." from Dark Knight) - or see to it that writers such as Alan Grant eliminated the little human moments that defined his run (ie. "Still want to kill the monster?" from this month's Batman for instance). If forced to choose between the two interpretations of the character to ensure that readers were exposed to a Batman who remained consistent from title to title, issue to issue, I can't imagine Alan Grant standing a chance against anything that was Miller-esque in this market and yet O Neil still gave him his freedom. Of course, credit for this has to go to Alan Grant more than it does to Denny O Neil, but I mean, I heard that one writer was recently chided for having Batman sit down in a comic - "Batman does not sit down and anyone familiar with the character knows this" - and I remember in the mid-90's, hearing that there was an edict forbidding Batman from smiling on covers (Alex Ross had to redo a Kingdom Come piece of artwork for this reason). That Denny O Neil is going around letting Batman actually act like a human being during his run in this sort of environment, is something I have to applaud.
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Post by shaxper on Feb 2, 2015 0:07:28 GMT -5
I picked this issue up again after reading your review which suggested that it would read better than I remembered it. It did. And there's a few things I picked up on as well, due to your review.
Vicki Vale's Instability
This was actually touched upon in Batman 457 which would have been only a month old here. Because it involves the Scarecrow's fear gas though, it might suggest only that Vicki Vale is as susceptible to Crane's toxins as anybody else, but she does undergo some psychological trauma at the hands of that issue's villain (the memory of her puppy being run over). Again, there's nothing to suggest that once the fear gas wears off she won't be perfectly fine, but it does seem like an interesting correlation if nothing else between issues that are only one month apart.
And you know what? I like how Alan Grant's Batman handles the situation better than I do Marv Wolfman's. Grant has Batman consoling Vicki, telling her that she'll be alright, careful not to leave her side until the police arrive. His cape is almost draped over her like that of a bird protecting its young. Wolfman's Batman seems to treat it more as a problem to be solved by Bruce Wayne's money.
Batman 457
Vicki (shivering, muttering to herself): --all the blood everywhere--
Batman: It's Okay, Vicki. You'll be alright.
Detective 625
Vicki: Oh, my God...my God. So... so close...
Batman has her back to her. Vicki looks up at where he stood. He's vanished.
Vicki: Th-they're both gone.
Cut to Gordon consoling Vicki as he approaches Bruce Wayne's limo.
Bruce Wayne: Vicki? I heard gunshots. Are you alright?
Wow. Excellent comparison, chad. I completely missed the parallels between those two issues and thoroughly agree with your conclusion. Don't forget that the very first Batman stories under O'Neil's reign (Batman #401, as well as the early Barr and Grant Detective Comics stories) had Batman similarly warm and caring, even going so far as to comfort the villain at the end of #401. In fact, even Starlin's Batman showed moments of compassion:  So I think what you're noting here is less a conscious decision to bend an edict and more sloppy oversight because, after all, this is supposed to be the same Batman we saw in Year One and Death in the Family, and, for the first two years of O'Neil's tenure as editor, Dark Knight Returns was theoretically in continuity as well. |
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Post by shaxper on Feb 7, 2015 15:19:36 GMT -5
Batman: Bride of the Demon  writer: Mike W. Barr art: Tom Grindberg colors: Eve Grindberg letters: Gaspar Saladino editor: Denny O'Neil Batman created by Bob Kane grade: C+ Note: This is the sequel to Barr's 1987 Batman: Son of the Demon, my review of which can be found here. When Son of the Demon was published in 1987, it was noteworthy for being perhaps the biggest Ras Al Ghul (and Talia) story yet told. Published soon after the Post-Crisis reboot, but still repeatedly referencing past events, it seemed clear that the story had been written for the Pre-Crisis and simply hit the press a little late. But this 1990 follow-up is a far more complicated situation. Edited by O'Neil this time (Giordano was the editor on Son of the Demon), and clearly portraying Tim Drake prior to his becoming Robin, this book seems to fall into Post-Crisis continuity. Of course, we get a scene late in the story where Batman uses all his past Batmobiles (including the 1940s original and the 1960s television series version) to thwart Al Ghul and his men, and the story is a sequel to a book that referenced pre-Crisis continuity, so what are we to make of all of this? Perhaps its safest to treat it similarly to The Killing Joke, which clearly contained pre-Crisis references but has been indoctrinated into Post-Crisis continuity -- essentially, it happened, but not exactly in the way it's depicted here. I have a larger purpose in pondering all of this, though. In the 1970s, Ras Al Ghul was arguably Batman's greatest villain (even moreso than The Joker). Though Conway and Moench neglected him throughout their runs in the 1980s, Moench did make him the central villain in Batman's final Pre-Crisis story in Batman #400. Son of the Demon came out soon after. But, ever since that time, there's been absolutely no mention of Ras Al Ghul in Post-Crisis Batman continuity. Just about every other villain has surfaced by this point (some multiple times), but not a single mention of Al Ghul. Had O'Neil (who, after all, created the character) reserved him exclusively for Barr's use at this point? Ras and Talia will eventually find their way back into mainstream Batman continuity down the road, but, for now, this is all we're getting of them in the Post Crisis, and I wonder to what extent that was intended, as well as whether or not we were expected to treat this story as "in continuity." Of course, knowing O'Neil, he probably didn't give the continuity issue all that much regard. As for the story itself, it's definitely not on par with the original, nor, really, with Barr's former work on Batman in general. Ras has another plan to save the planet and destroy civilization in the process, he needs en environmental scientist for his plan in ways that are never really explained, he finds some fading film actress, restores her youth, and marries her (it all happens REALLY quickly), Batman ends up a captive in Ras' fortress, must escape a deathtrap and blow up the installation, and the story gives equal attention to Bruce and Talia's rekindled but doomed affection for one another (not bad), the film actress being super loyal to Ras (seems completely unbelievable and unnecessary to the plot), and the environmental scientist's quest to save his son (which resolves in the oddest and least thought out of ways with the father randomly dying, the son surviving, and Batman just saying "so what are your plans now?" before dumping him on the cops). It's a bad mixture of conventional and sloppy. I get the sense that Barr really wanted to focus on interpersonal relationships in this story: Ras's new wife to Talia, Ras to Talia, Talia to Batman, the scientist to his son, etc, etc, but it only comes across in stilted and abrupt dialogue that always feels forced and never quite conveys enough. Meanwhile, the Grindbergs generally do a nice job on art, particularly the layouts, but Tom draws faces extremely inconsistently, and you can tell that Eva is sometimes so confused by this that she'll color the face differently, assuming it's a different character. Exhibits #1-4: the many (Grindberg) faces of Ras Al Ghul     Exhibit #5: Bruce Wayne looks more like Ras Al Ghul than Ras Al Ghul does  In the end, while this was far from a terrible story, while it's hard not to like a story in which Batman and Ras go head to head, and while the deluxe hardcover treatment ALWAYS makes the art look better and the story's action more enticing, consider the cost -- not just the $19.95 for a mediocre story, but the idea that Ras and Talia may well have been on hold for the past three years just for the sake of this story. From that perspective, this work is a sincere disappointment. Important Details: - Ras Al Ghul takes on a wife, and she is pregnant with his heir - Talia still has affection for Bruce, and vice versa. In fact, at the end of this story, they are seemingly reunited. Perhaps that's our evidence that this story was not intended to fit in the regular continuity - And yet Tim Drake is present and clearly eager to become Robin - Talia almost informs Bruce about the baby from Son of the Demon, but she stops herself. Minor Details: While there were A LOT of little moments in this story that rubbed me the wrong way, I think this one was my absolute favorite, in which blasting Talia in the ass somehow knocks her unconscious:  |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Feb 7, 2015 21:10:10 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever read this one...and now I don't think I will.
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Post by shaxper on Feb 12, 2015 12:39:38 GMT -5
Batman #459  "Saturday Night at the Movies" writer: Alan Grant pencils: Norm Breyfogle inks: Steve Mitchell colors: Adrienne Roy letters: Todd Klein asst. ed: Kelley Puckett editor: Dennis O'Neil Batman creator: Bob Kane grade: A+ The sigh of relief in this issue is almost audible as Grant and Breyfogle, finally free of editor mandates, take the time to play. No mention of Tim Drake, no attempt to introduce a new villain or resurrect an old one; in fact, the conflict in this story is of marginal importance at best. Instead, this is an opportunity for Grant and Breyfogle to experiment and try for some new directions. They use the Douglas Fairbanks Zorro film, showing at a local theater, as the centerpiece of this story -- the place both where Gordon and Essen will rekindle their old romance (first sparked again last issue) and where Batman will relive his origin once more (seriously, how many times have we seen the death of his parents replayed, ending in a tribute to Mazzuchelli's shot of a young Bruce Wayne standing by his dead parents under a street light, in the past four years??). But these moments are meaningful instead of trite. Grant spends a lot of time in Gordon's head, portraying an old man seeking his youth and "happy ending" after having abandoned both to cynicism so many decades earlier, and Breyfogle is careful to draw him older, fatter, and looking generally more tired but also happier than ever before. Meanwhile, even while reliving his dark origin, Batman's portrayal returns to that of the early Post-Crisis "[only] as mean as I have to be" characterization where he stops to make sure a mugging victim is okay, introduces himself to the guy as "The Batman", and later even stops to inspire a young boy who reminds him of himself. Perhaps Grant and Breyfogle assume that, with a new Robin out there, Batman is over the whole death of Jason Todd and, therefore, can be happy again. I love it, but I also know that depiction won't last. It just doesn't sell as many comic books. But it's the ending of this issue that truly floors me. Just when you think it's all done, and Gordon is quietly thinking to himself about how everything is finally working out, we get these final two panels:   Sure, the foreshadowing was clearly there, sure, Doug Moench pulled the same stunt in the Pre-Crisis, and sure, we know Grant isn't really going to kill him, but still -- I had a gut reaction to this moment, suspending the thinking and just totally, utterly feeling. Wow. Harold Watch: Yup. He's in the issue, building a handheld holographic projector for an overly excited, almost happy-go-lucky Batman. Tim Drake Watch: Nope. Not even mentioned once. Important Details: Commissioner Gordon has a heart attack Minor Details: Why is an entire page given to introducing Joseph F. Leonard, the mugging victim Batman saved who is vacationing in Gotham and pledges to get right back on the bus and go home? This is a really awkward moment in the book that appears to serve no purpose. Is this a reference to a living person, or perhaps a dig at someone Grant or Breyfogle knows? plot synopsis in one sentence: Gordon and Essen go on a date to watch the Douglas Fairbanks Zorro film in the theater, a spoiled little kid is also taken there against his will, Batman saves a mugging victim and tracks down the drug dealer supplying the goons who tried to jump him, this leads to a chase resulting in the dealer grabbing the spoiled little kid and his parents while they are leaving the theater, and while Batman is forced to relive his origin once again, he saves the day, says some words of inspiration to the kid, and takes off, leaving Gordon and Essen to end their wonderful evening as Gordon leaves Essen at her doorstep and, while reflecting afterwards, has a sudden heart attack. |
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Post by badwolf on Feb 12, 2015 12:58:15 GMT -5
While there were A LOT of little moments in this story that rubbed me the wrong way, I think this one was my absolute favorite, in which blasting Talia in the ass somehow knocks her unconscious Trying so hard not to make an off-color joke here... |
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Post by shaxper on Feb 12, 2015 13:24:02 GMT -5
While there were A LOT of little moments in this story that rubbed me the wrong way, I think this one was my absolute favorite, in which blasting Talia in the ass somehow knocks her unconscious Trying so hard not to make an off-color joke here... It's pretty bad even without you touching it. And, yes, my wording was intentional  |
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Post by byronlomax on Feb 12, 2015 18:20:19 GMT -5
Grant and Breyfogle really get into a stride with the last two Batman issues, and the Robin-focused issues a bit down the line are fantastic as well. We're kinda getting near the end of their run at this point, so it's good to see them hit some home runs before the team dissolves. The Batman run might be more continuity-focused than the Tec one, but honestly I don't think there's any drop in quality at all. The Killer Croc issue (Batman 471) might be my very favourite issue of theirs.
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Post by shaxper on Feb 12, 2015 22:35:04 GMT -5
Grant and Breyfogle really get into a stride with the last two Batman issues, and the Robin-focused issues a bit down the line are fantastic as well. We're kinda getting near the end of their run at this point, so it's good to see them hit some home runs before the team dissolves. Don't they go on to do Shadow of the Bat together? |
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