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Post by thwhtguardian on Feb 12, 2015 22:35:25 GMT -5
Not really related to the thread...but it's Stan Sakai and Batman:  |
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Post by foxley on Feb 13, 2015 3:29:13 GMT -5
Grant and Breyfogle really get into a stride with the last two Batman issues, and the Robin-focused issues a bit down the line are fantastic as well. We're kinda getting near the end of their run at this point, so it's good to see them hit some home runs before the team dissolves. Don't they go on to do Shadow of the Bat together? Indeed they do. As for Bride of the Demon, I seem to recall enjoying it when it came out, but now cannot recall any detail from it. It was certainly not a patch on the earlier Son of the Demon or the later Birth of the Demon. Personally, I consider Birth to be the best of the three, and one of the best ra's al Ghul stories of all time. |
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Feb 13, 2015 3:39:23 GMT -5
Grant and Breyfogle really get into a stride with the last two Batman issues, and the Robin-focused issues a bit down the line are fantastic as well. We're kinda getting near the end of their run at this point, so it's good to see them hit some home runs before the team dissolves. Don't they go on to do Shadow of the Bat together? Grant is on Shadow for quite a long time but Breyfogle only makes sporadic appearances. Anywho, Batman #459 is a great issue but what bothers me is that Gordon is so much older than he was in Year One. I guess you could chalk it up to 10-15 years of Gotham aging him prematurely but it bugs me that a character who could beat Flass up would age so poorly in such a brief timespan. |
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Post by shaxper on Feb 13, 2015 5:57:20 GMT -5
Don't they go on to do Shadow of the Bat together? Indeed they do. As for Bride of the Demon, I seem to recall enjoying it when it came out, but now cannot recall any detail from it. It was certainly not a patch on the earlier Son of the Demon or the later Birth of the Demon. Personally, I consider Birth to be the best of the three, and one of the best ra's al Ghul stories of all time. I had no idea there was a third one. Thanks for this. Don't they go on to do Shadow of the Bat together? Anywho, Batman #459 is a great issue but what bothers me is that Gordon is so much older than he was in Year One. I guess you could chalk it up to 10-15 years of Gotham aging him prematurely but it bugs me that a character who could beat Flass up would age so poorly in such a brief timespan. The issue emphasizes that idea pretty hard, repeatedly showing a more cynical Gordon who just stopped taking care of himself because he had no real reason to. The irony at the close of #459 is that, now, when he finally has a reason to want to live, it's being snatched from him. But I absolutely see a shift in how Breyfogle draws him starting with the previous issue. He definitely makes Gordon look at least ten years older and ten sizes fatter than he did previously. |
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Post by foxley on Feb 13, 2015 6:29:00 GMT -5
My pleasure. I just checked the details. It came out in 1992 and was written by Denny O'Neil and had painted art by Norm Breyfogle. It contains what should probably be considered the definitive origin for Ra's.
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Post by shaxper on Feb 13, 2015 21:39:05 GMT -5
It came out in 1992 and was written by Denny O'Neil and had painted art by Norm Breyfogle. Seems kind of wrong to have snatched it away from Barr. I wonder if there's a story there. I'm resisting the urge to automatically assume it was just another grab for glory by O'Neil. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Feb 13, 2015 22:50:48 GMT -5
It came out in 1992 and was written by Denny O'Neil and had painted art by Norm Breyfogle. Seems kind of wrong to have snatched it away from Barr. I wonder if there's a story there. I'm resisting the urge to automatically assume it was just another grab for glory by O'Neil. Eh, I don't I'd say snatched especially as Ra's was created by Denny in the first place and for my money he wrote him best and probably the most frequently too. |
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Post by shaxper on Feb 13, 2015 22:55:56 GMT -5
Seems kind of wrong to have snatched it away from Barr. I wonder if there's a story there. I'm resisting the urge to automatically assume it was just another grab for glory by O'Neil. Eh, I don't I'd say snatched especially as Ra's was created by Denny in the first place and for my money he wrote him best and probably the most frequently too. Agreed, but this wasn't just a Ra's graphic novel; it was a direct sequel to Son of the Demon, one of the most popular modern day Batman stories at the time. Don't forget how O'Neil wrote his "Shaman" story on the heels of Miller's Year One and then quickly cemented his revision of that origin story into continuity with his "The Man Who Falls" retelling of that revision in the Secret Origins tpb. O'Neil has admitted, several times in his "From the Den" column, that he really really likes acclaim and attention, and I suspect he knew he'd get more of it hocking a Ra's Al Ghul story billed as sequel to Son of the Demon than by writing and advertising it as a stand alone. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Feb 13, 2015 23:09:25 GMT -5
Eh, I don't I'd say snatched especially as Ra's was created by Denny in the first place and for my money he wrote him best and probably the most frequently too. Agreed, but this wasn't just a Ra's graphic novel; it was a direct sequel to Son of the Demon, one of the most popular modern day Batman stories at the time. Don't forget how O'Neil wrote his "Shaman" story on the heels of Miller's Year One and then quickly cemented his revision of that origin story into continuity with his "The Man Who Falls" retelling of that revision in the Secret Origins tpb. O'Neil has admitted, several times in his "From the Den" column, that he really really likes acclaim and attention, and I suspect he knew he'd get more of it hocking a Ra's Al Ghul story billed as sequel to Son of the Demon than by writing and advertising it as a stand alone. Eh, it was two years after Bride of the Demon so I don't know if you can say it was riding that story's coat tails and I don't really remember it being billed as a sequel to either Son of the Demon or Bride (though I could be wrong) although it was collected with those two stories later in 2012. |
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Post by shaxper on Feb 13, 2015 23:12:59 GMT -5
Agreed, but this wasn't just a Ra's graphic novel; it was a direct sequel to Son of the Demon, one of the most popular modern day Batman stories at the time. Don't forget how O'Neil wrote his "Shaman" story on the heels of Miller's Year One and then quickly cemented his revision of that origin story into continuity with his "The Man Who Falls" retelling of that revision in the Secret Origins tpb. O'Neil has admitted, several times in his "From the Den" column, that he really really likes acclaim and attention, and I suspect he knew he'd get more of it hocking a Ra's Al Ghul story billed as sequel to Son of the Demon than by writing and advertising it as a stand alone. Eh, it was two years after Bride of the Demon so I don't know if you can say it was riding that story's coat tails "Shaman" was printed three years after Year One, and that was a clear attempt to ride coattails. I'll have to wait until we get to 1992 to be able to speak on this one authoritatively, but the title alone certainly suggests a connection to Son of the Demon and its sequel, Bride of the Demon. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Feb 13, 2015 23:16:53 GMT -5
Eh, it was two years after Bride of the Demon so I don't know if you can say it was riding that story's coat tails "Shaman" was printed three years after Year One. I'll have to wait until we get to 1992 to be able to speak on this one authoritatively, but the title alone certainly suggests a connection to Son of the Demon and its sequel, Bride of the Demon. I think Denny started that naming tradition with the Daughter of the Demon and the Demon Lives Again, so it seems a return to form for him. |
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Post by shaxper on Feb 13, 2015 23:18:24 GMT -5
"Shaman" was printed three years after Year One. I'll have to wait until we get to 1992 to be able to speak on this one authoritatively, but the title alone certainly suggests a connection to Son of the Demon and its sequel, Bride of the Demon. I think Denny started that naming tradition with the Daughter of the Demon, so it seems a return to form for him. Perhaps, but the tradition had long been broken, going as far back as The Lazarus Affair, and to release it in graphic novel format with that name certainly suggested a connection with Barr's works. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Feb 13, 2015 23:24:16 GMT -5
I just see it as a connection to Fu Manchu rather than being associated with anything Barr especially as his work seemed fairly forgettable. When I think Ra's I think Denny, Jim Aparo, Marv Wolfman and Moench but seldom Barr.
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Post by shaxper on Feb 13, 2015 23:26:38 GMT -5
When I think Ra's I think Denny, Jim Aparo, Marv Wolfman and Moench but seldom Barr. I think most Post-Crisis fans of Batman associated Ra's primarily with Son of the Demon, especially as "Son" (and, later, "Bride") had been the only Ra's story published after Year One. |
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Post by foxley on Feb 14, 2015 1:32:51 GMT -5
I don't know the particulars of why Denny wrote Birth rather than Barr, but as Ra's' creator, he was probably the best person to tell the story of his origin. By this time the "of the Demon" suffix had become standard/expected for Ra's stories (because of Son and Bride) and so Denny kept it going with Birth, which also served as a nod to his own classic "Daughter of the Demon". The "of the Demon" would continue into the future with comics like the Bane of the Demon mini-series.
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