shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,815
|
Post by shaxper on May 4, 2016 20:05:04 GMT -5
Is P Craig Russell enough to get Shaxper to read Robin 3000?  I'd probably be willing to try anything P. Craig Russell. After all, I waded through Killraven for him. |
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on May 4, 2016 21:29:35 GMT -5
Is P Craig Russell enough to get Shaxper to read Robin 3000? I remember thinking that was pretty cool. I'm going to have to see if I still have it. |
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on May 4, 2016 22:27:37 GMT -5
Is P Craig Russell enough to get Shaxper to read Robin 3000? I'd probably be willing to try anything P. Craig Russell. After all, I waded through Killraven for him. Hey, I LIKE Killraven! |
|
|
|
Post by Action Ace on Jul 10, 2016 22:51:30 GMT -5
I know this thread is on pause at the moment, but there is an item of interest for Bat fans of this era that is on sale this week.  It includes his Detective Comics #500 story, several Brave & the Bold issues and Batman: Holy Terror. |
|
shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,815
|
Post by shaxper on Jul 11, 2016 9:13:01 GMT -5
Hey, I remember this thread  |
|
|
|
Post by brutalis on Jul 11, 2016 11:30:47 GMT -5
We all remember this splendid thread you gave us Shaxper! An i have that very Brennert collection on pre-order and awaiting impatiently for it to arrive so i can begin reading!
|
|
parker
Junior Member
Posts: 11 
|
Post by parker on Sept 15, 2016 5:02:55 GMT -5
I'm well into re-reading Doug Moench's run at the moment! After that I will probably go back to Conway. And then to Wein. You know, reverse!
What can I say?
It is really odd to see Bronze Age Batman in his final throes.
Someone said that he is less competent than the Golden Age Batman (oh boy, look how he handled Nightslayer's escape), less emotionally stable than Iron Age Batman (comes of as a little kid, but thatÄs probably a realistic characterization) and goofier than the space-going Silver Age Batman (seriously, he becomes the Nightslayer, Nightslayer becomes Batman and Nocturna can also swing around with the batrope?).
I can sorta agree with that.
But it is not without his charms. Jason, Bruce, Nocturna, Bullock, Nightslayer - they are all little kids, longing for motherly or fatherly love.
The adoption plot is so ridiculous it's not even funny.
I like Nocturna because it is just so over-the-top.
And speaking about Nocturna, what I have I read there? She is in the New 52 and is basically now some sort of vampire (a common misconception, have people actually EVER read the run by themselves) that RAPES Batwoman.
Wow. Really.
But it shows the difference to today - she is just a THIEF. Would Batman of these days even care about common thieves?
Liked Moench's Joker, hated his Penguin, found his Mad Hatter to be underdeveloped.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Sept 15, 2016 10:40:57 GMT -5
I'm well into re-reading Doug Moench's run at the moment! After that I will probably go back to Conway. And then to Wein. You know, reverse! What can I say? It is really odd to see Bronze Age Batman in his final throes. Someone said that he is less competent than the Golden Age Batman (oh boy, look how he handled Nightslayer's escape), less emotionally stable than Iron Age Batman (comes of as a little kid, but thatÄs probably a realistic characterization) and goofier than the space-going Silver Age Batman (seriously, he becomes the Nightslayer, Nightslayer becomes Batman and Nocturna can also swing around with the batrope?). I can sorta agree with that. But it is not without his charms. Jason, Bruce, Nocturna, Bullock, Nightslayer - they are all little kids, longing for motherly or fatherly love. The adoption plot is so ridiculous it's not even funny. I like Nocturna because it is just so over-the-top. And speaking about Nocturna, what I have I read there? She is in the New 52 and is basically now some sort of vampire (a common misconception, have people actually EVER read the run by themselves) that RAPES Batwoman. Wow. Really. But it shows the difference to today - she is just a THIEF. Would Batman of these days even care about common thieves? Liked Moench's Joker, hated his Penguin, found his Mad Hatter to be underdeveloped. That period where Moench was writing it is my favorite long-term era for Batman. So crazy! Not just Nocturna! Catwoman, Vicki Vale. And Julia Pennyworth, Alfred's daughter! I'm surprised Julie Madison and Linda Page didn't show up. I was reading them off the stands as they came out. I started about Detective #513 (Batman #345, I think) and read it up to about #580 (Batman #410), but with the passing of the Bronze Age, the magic was gone. Nocturna floating away in a wayward balloon into the red sky is, to me, the official end of the Bronze Age. |
|
shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,815
|
Post by shaxper on Sept 15, 2016 13:14:12 GMT -5
I was reading them off the stands as they came out. I started about Detective #513 (Batman #345, I think) and read it up to about #580 (Batman #410), but with the passing of the Bronze Age, the magic was gone. Nocturna floating away in a wayward balloon into the red sky is, to me, the official end of the Bronze Age. Beautiful as that sentiment is (I almost want to print it out and frame it), I personally think the Bronze Age Batman ended slightly earlier with Detective Comics #556. Moench was pretty much the only writer at DC who took the "red skies" tie in to COIE seriously, and that was the issue where all of the characters Moench had developed throughout his run stood around, watching the red skies, waiting for the world to end, seeming to understand as much as Moench did that everything was about to be wiped away. Then, suddenly, the next issue had none of that; business as usual. Everything that Moench had been building towards went forgotten, and a lot of the intense character arcs building up to that moment were either abandoned or drastically altered after. I'm still convinced there was some misunderstanding and Moench actually thought he was going to wipe away the Batman universe coinciding with COIE, the issue after "Tec #556 being where someone finally explained to him that nothing was going to change for a while to come. Here's how I explained it then: |
|
parker
Junior Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by parker on Sept 15, 2016 13:51:44 GMT -5
That period where Moench was writing it is my favorite long-term era for Batman. So crazy! Not just Nocturna! Catwoman, Vicki Vale. And Julia Pennyworth, Alfred's daughter! I'm surprised Julie Madison and Linda Page didn't show up. I was reading them off the stands as they came out. I started about Detective #513 (Batman #345, I think) and read it up to about #580 (Batman #410), but with the passing of the Bronze Age, the magic was gone. Nocturna floating away in a wayward balloon into the red sky is, to me, the official end of the Bronze Age. Yeah, I mean, even this uneven admixture. Goofy Thief-of-Night turns into an obsessed killer which is a very gruesome theme. Then there is Nocturna who is just a thief who has the stolen loot HID in a giant cave. She also seems to walk around with a "fog machine" (or so I assume  ) That's something right from the Adam West show. I am also amazed as how well I liked the Black Mask story. The character makes sense to me now. A typical case of a "narcissistic personality disorder". I loved how he somehow tried to break free from his old self to truly become Black Mask but never quite managed to pull it off. I also understand the "biten-by-a-racoon" stuff now a lot more. To me it kinda spoils Roman that the stuff of nice cartoon animals he had seen in his sheltered home was not true, and this marked him. Is this cheesy? I dunno. It's probably very scary for a child. I gained so much insight
...is there a Moon Knight thread, yet?... |
|
|
|
Post by foxley on Sept 15, 2016 18:32:59 GMT -5
I really liked the original Black Mask stuff. What I think made him unique was that he was villain that hated Bruce Wayne rather than Batman. I think this set up some interesting dynamics. One of the (many) things DC got wrong in recent years was to make Black Mask just another Gotham City crime boss. The personal dimension between Roman and Bruce really drove the original tales.
|
|
parker
Junior Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by parker on Sept 16, 2016 3:59:52 GMT -5
I really liked the original Black Mask stuff. What I think made him unique was that he was villain that hated Bruce Wayne rather than Batman. I think this set up some interesting dynamics. One of the (many) things DC got wrong in recent years was to make Black Mask just another Gotham City crime boss. The personal dimension between Roman and Bruce really drove the original tales. Yeah, but that is Brubaker's Black Mask. For some reason, that guy has fans. But he doesn't really have much to do with Moench's. He even calls himself Roman Sionis, which totally flies into the face of the original tale. I don't know why some writers bring back old characters and turn them into something entirely different. |
|
shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,815
|
Post by shaxper on Sept 16, 2016 4:59:46 GMT -5
I really liked the original Black Mask stuff. What I think made him unique was that he was villain that hated Bruce Wayne rather than Batman. I think this set up some interesting dynamics. One of the (many) things DC got wrong in recent years was to make Black Mask just another Gotham City crime boss. The personal dimension between Roman and Bruce really drove the original tales. Yeah, but that is Brubaker's Black Mask. For some reason, that guy has fans. But he doesn't really have much to do with Moench's. He even calls himself Roman Sionis, which totally flies into the face of the original tale. I don't know why some writers bring back old characters and turn them into something entirely different. Copyright renewal in many cases, but I don't think that applies here. |
|
shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,815
|
Post by shaxper on Nov 5, 2016 10:07:29 GMT -5
Batman #464  "Spirit of the Beast, Part Three: Sacrifice" writer: Alan Grant pencils: Norm Breyfogle inks: Steve Mitchell colors: Adrienne Roy letters: Todd Klein asst. editor: Kelley Puckett editor: Dennis O'Neil creator: Bob Kane special thanks: Kevin Breyfogle & Jeremy Heifer grade: F It's rare that I find a comic so bad that I utterly lose the will to review it, but that is certainly the case with this issue, which is so cliche, uninteresting, and utterly forgettable that forgetting is exactly what I want to do. I respect O'Neil's new vision of using the Batman comics to be an advocate for social change, but this particular storyline feels so forced, overly general, and inauthentic that it probably never should have been written. Native Americans have suffered irreparably at the hands of the United States, but this little product of White guilt doesn't work particularly hard to understand the details or promote any kind of real solutions.  So utterly upsetting that 1. Batman wasn't concerned about this (and, by extension, we can assume any social issue) until confronted with it directly, and now suddenly feels it's more important than anything else he was working towards previously (at least until next issue), and 2. After a three part story trying to make us aware of...something about Native Americans, neither Grant nor Batman seems to have any ideas on how to help with a problem that is never clearly defined by the story. What an anti-climactic cop-out, and 3. Let's not forget that, as far as I'm concerned, Bruce Wayne can't be socially conscious. No plot synopsis for this one; no detailed review. It stunk, and why dedicate three issues to a social cause if you're not going to leave us with some kind of clear call to action by the close? "Try to help Native Americans." That doesn't mean anything. |
|
shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,815
|
Post by shaxper on Nov 5, 2016 11:02:36 GMT -5
Detective Comics #631  "The Golem of Gotham, Part One" writer: Peter Milligan pencils: Jim Aparo inks: Mike DeCarlo letters: John Costanza colors: Adrienne Roy asst. editor: Kelley Puckett editor: Dennis O'Neil grade: C+ Much as I love those Michael Golden covers, I really really wish they actually had something to do with the story within. So here's another multi-parter that is overtly intended to convey a social message about an oppressed minority, but whereas Grant and Breyfogle clearly had no idea how to tackle such an assignment, Milligan and Aparo do it a little more justice. This opening comparison, for example, between the treatment of Indian immigrants to Jews during the Holocaust, is downright striking:  (even if it's also a little offensive in its simplicity -- the government wasn't rounding up Indian immigrants for death camps, after all). Unlike Grant, Milligan is also targeting a specific problem and not just a vague notion of injustice. This story is about hatred and fear of "the other" in all his/her forms. Grant takes pains to try to understand the mind of a bigot: both the decided bigot and the confused one, and he tries to make it clear that, unlike Batman caring about Native Americans only when he's confronted by one, this issue of fighting intolerance and hatred IS his job -- it's the one he's been doing all along:  Not sure that connects well to the murder of his parents which drove him to wage this war on crime, but the concept still holds up reasonably well. I also respect the amount of thought and research Milligan puts into Jewish mysticism here  unlike the crap that Grant and O'Neil had been pulling in their ambiguous celebration of some sort of generic Native American mysticism in their stories. But I'm still left with two significant complaints about this issue: The first is Milligan's characterization of Batman, who comes off as old and cranky for no apparent reason:   And the second is that this story bored me. It's thoughtful, it's intelligent, and it doesn't lend itself well to an action/superhero comic. I'd much rather spend twenty pages reading the deep introspections of that Jewish mystic than worry about a golem running around the city that Batman needs to take down. The monster, itself, holds no specific meaning for Batman, it isn't really the kind of villain well suited to Batman that will allow him to showcase his skills and prowess particularly well, it isn't particularly interesting in and of itself, and we know Batman's going to take it down and that it will never come back, so why should we care? It's like Milligan began writing a great treatise on race relations and then suddenly realized he had to tack on a conflict for Batman at the last second. Plot synopsis: An old Jewish man observes a vigilante group harassing Indian immigrants and is reminded of the Holocaust. Speaking to his deceased friend (who died during the Holocaust), he begins erecting a golem with which to stop this mob, but the golem runs wild and appears to actually BE his deceased friend reanimated(?) |
|
) That's something right from the Adam West show. 