shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 2, 2020 23:51:34 GMT -5
NOTE: I have since obtained a full copy of this film and written an updated review hereDaughters Who Pay (1925)While the complete film is not easy to get one's hands on today, there are enough clips available on Youtube to get a pretty decent idea of the film, and (thankfully) nearly all of Bela Lugosi's scenes are accessible. Lugosi runs a Soviet anti-American terrorist cell or something, and the only thing he loves more than being bad is controlling, abusing, and borderline sexually harassing his daughter. It doesn't seem to be much of a film in terms of plot nor visuals, but the acting is first rate, and while Lugosi plays a truly terrifying villain who flies into horrifyingly convincing savage rages, Marguerite De La Motte, playing the daughter, outshines him at every turn, which is sort of fitting considering the conflict between them. Plot (0-5 points): 1 from what I've seen. Atmosphere (0-5 points): 1 from what I've seen. Barren snowy roads, spartan shacks -- this is not an easy film to look at, and I suspect the budget was very very small. Other Actors (0-3 points): De La Motte is a sensation. 3The Lugosi Factor (0-10 points): He's absolutely no fun in this one. Very little subtlety. But he sure plays an abusive father figure convincingly. I honestly find him more terrifying here than in any of his traditional horror films, where he exercises some level of restraint of the sake of style and panache. Not here, though. And it works. 7Overall: If what I've seen of the film can be considered highlights, then it's no wonder the film isn't more widely available. All you need is a youtube clip or two of Lugosi and De La Motte facing off with one another, and you've got all that seems to be worth seeing in this film. 12
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 2:36:58 GMT -5
I saw this film in Vancouver B.C. and I don't recall ( Daughters Who Pay (1925) ) any of it. Sad.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 10:39:43 GMT -5
My apologies to skipping ahead of Bela Lugosi's Career.
Dracula (1931) Count Dracula
Hollywood on Parade No. A-8 (Short) (1933) Dracula
Mark of the Vampire (1935) Count Mora
Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein (1948) Dracula
The Paul Winchell Show (TV Series) (1950) Count Dracula
Here's a list of all Vampire/Dracula movies and television appearances and not one recurring role as Count Dracula after 1931. I don't count the 1948 Comedy at all and any other appearances that I listed here. I consider that role so iconic and wondering why he didn't have a sequel? It's baffled me.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 3, 2020 10:49:21 GMT -5
Here's a list of all Vampire/Dracula movies and television appearances and not one recurring role as Count Dracula after 1931. There were more. Lugosi made countless appearances as Dracula. Most just weren't recorded and/or saved. Also, don't forget the almost Dracula appearances. You include Mark of the Vampire but what about Return of the Vampire? Lugosi was a bit of a prima donna, according to most accounts, and he repeatedly rubbed Universal the wrong way. Universal gave him a lot of work after Dracula, but perhaps didn't want to further feed his ego by allowing him to continue in his most legendary role. I have heard stories that he was originally slated to appear in Dracula's Daughter, but I don't know the rest of what presumably occurred there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 11:24:29 GMT -5
Thanks for this Shax!
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Post by chadwilliam on Jan 3, 2020 11:46:07 GMT -5
I've heard it suggested that Lugosi didn't immediately reprise his Dracula role for a sequel simply because it didn't occur to Universal that they could bring him back. Unlike with the Frankenstein Monster whose death at the end of that film was somewhat ambiguous, Harker drove a stake through Dracula's heart and the character was dead. Nowadays, this wouldn't be an issue, but supposedly in 1931, Universal figured that Dracula's story had come to an end, hence Daughter of Dracula and Son of Dracula dealing with the character's offspring and not Dracula himself. I've also heard it theorized that it was Lugosi's Return of the Vampire for Columbia with its 'Vampire returns when metal stake is pulled from his heart' premise that made Universal go 'Hey, why didn't we think of that' hence the following year's House of Frankenstein employing the same trick to bring him back.
I don't know if Lugosi really was a prima donna. There are a lot of myths about the guy which for the longest time were taken as gospel. Lugosi, for instance, was said to have turned down the role of the Monster in Frankenstein because he felt a non-speaking part was beneath him. Never mind the fact, as Shaxper has already illustrated, that Lugosi had done plenty of non-speaking roles already through his silent years (I can't imagine that once sound was introduced, Lugosi demanded only speaking parts) but it seems as though the decision not to use Lugosi was made by James Whale.
Lugosi would later star in some pretty cheap movies which were beneath him and while you can't really argue that him playing the Ape Man or working with Ed Wood was a sign that he was up for anything instead of simply being an indication that he had to take whatever roles he could get whether he wanted them or not, I've never heard anyone who worked with him express the opinion that he seemed bitter about being reduced to such roles which is how you would think a "prima donna" would react. He may have been - I know I would be - but the fact that he seemed affable and even fun on set (I recently listened to the commentary for the cheapy The Devil Bat and its description of Lugosi joking around on the set with his co-stars as if he genuinely enjoyed the experience).
Karloff was once on set at Universal and was asked where the toilets were. He responded, "the whole place is a toilet". Chaney, Jr. expressed frustration at being "starved into" taking the name Lon Chaney, Jr instead of being allowed to use his own. Lugosi was the guy who walked around with an ape on chain to promote Bride of the Gorilla for Ed Wood with a smile on his face. Again, people will do a lot of things to make a living, but I've never thought of Lugosi as a prima donna.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 3, 2020 12:06:54 GMT -5
I've heard it suggested that Lugosi didn't immediately reprise his Dracula role for a sequel simply because it didn't occur to Universal that they could bring him back. Unlike with the Frankenstein Monster whose death at the end of that film was somewhat ambiguous, Harker drove a stake through Dracula's heart and the character was dead. Nowadays, this wouldn't be an issue, but supposedly in 1931, Universal figured that Dracula's story had come to an end, hence Daughter of Dracula and Son of Dracula dealing with the character's offspring and not Dracula himself. I can't speak for the executives at Universal, but certainly Karl Freund, Paul Leni, Conrad Veidt, and anyone else working on the lot who came from Germany or followed German cinema at all would have been familiar with The Golem (1915), a horror film that ends with the creature's destruction. Its more successful sequel was actually a prequel, explaining where the creature first came from, and utilizing the same actor. Well, first off, a non-speaking role is not the same as a speaking role in a silent film. Lugosi's starring roles during the silent era were crucial roles that delivered dialogue that affected the plot and revealed new truths about the character. A silent character is different -- Lugosi presumed the character's role and perspective were unimportant because they were not being expressed. Karloff understood how much could be conveyed without words, but Lugosi presumably couldn't comprehend that. Also, this was after the success of Dracula, when Lugosi was a household name and EVERYONE was offering him starring roles. He may have felt very differently about taking the role a year earlier. He did play a speechless background clown in 1924's He Who Gets Slapped, as well as many other minor (sometimes uncredited) roles prior to that. I've often assumed the dignity with which he played such roles indicated that he was unwilling to accept the idea that he'd stooped so low. But no, I don't mean that he threw his weight around with everyone he worked with on every set. I mean in the 1930s, in the heydey of Dracula, he expected Universal and its directors to treat him like a walking legend. After that, while he continued to hold a high opinion of himself and of his abilities, there are countless testimonies (especially by the 1950s) of how gracious he was to anyone who would pay attention to him. I'd love to listen to that. Can you explain a bit more about where you heard this? And yet many folks at Universal sure did.
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Post by beccabear67 on Jan 3, 2020 14:22:04 GMT -5
This is making want to dig out old issues of Filmfax. Bela is also featured in an anecdote about Clara Bow that gets written about in various places.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 3, 2020 14:30:47 GMT -5
This is making want to dig out old issues of Filmfax. Bela is also featured in an anecdote about Clara Bow that gets written about in various places. I seriously hope you do dig them out! I'd love to learn more!!
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Post by chadwilliam on Jan 3, 2020 15:09:09 GMT -5
I'd love to listen to that. Can you explain a bit more about where you heard this? It's on the Kino Lorber Blu-ray (and I assume DVD) copy of The Devil Bat and the commentary is care of Richard Harland Smith. In this film, Lugosi plays a guy who comes up with an aftershave lotion which attracts a giant bat to kill his victims once they leave his home. Everytime Lugosi gets one of his victims to try the lotion (they think he's simply a pleasant, friendly fellow) he wishes them a friendly "Good night" followed by an ominous "and good-byeee". I don't know if Smith spoke first hand with Lugosi co-star Suzanne Kaaren (she lived until 2004) or simply researched the details, but he notes that at the end of shooting every night, Lugosi would say good-bye to his co-stars by copying his "Good night... and good-byeee" farewell as a joke. On another note, that commentary also drew my attention to a detail I hadn't noticed before and I suspect it's something I would never have noticed if it hadn't been pointed out to me - whenever Lugosi turns the crank which opens the hidden passageway in his laboratory, he's actually just miming the action. There's no crank - it's just a blank wall and Lugosi turns his arms while his hands grip empty air to make it seem as if he's turning a crank. Next time you watch it, look out for it. A word of caution though - you won't be able to not see it from here on out. As to whether or not Bela had a big ego - it could be that he did and by the 50's it was gone. I'm a little sensitive about his memory because of how Lugosi is often portrayed/remembered/thought of in the public consciousness. Christopher Lee (whose own attempt at Dracula always struck me as Inspector Closeau-ish any time he had to do a death scene) once had the audacity to dismiss Lugosi by saying how he didn't want to end up 'like Bela Lugosi -a heroin addict reduced to playing Dracula over and over again'. That such an insult would come from Christopher ('Dracula AD 1972', 'Taste the Blood of Dracula', 'The Satanic Rites of Dracula', 'Dracula Has Risen from the Grave', 'Scars of...', blah, blah, blah) Lee whose hammy over the top Dracula is certainly nothing to be proud of is bad enough, but to have this fictionalized account of Bela Lugosi appear anytime in public is galling. I mean, Lugosi was a man who was exempted from the draft but still volunteered to fight in World War 1 because he believed in the cause. While there he saved a fellow soldier who had come under fire and did so by leaving the safety of the large tree he was shielding himself with (when Lugosi had saved the man's life he turned to go back to the tree he was using for cover only to discover that it had been destroyed by an explosion and knew that his act of bravery had inadvertently saved his own life too). He was an activist for a number of worthy causes both in the film and stage industry (he led a mass demonstration in Hungary to champion the cause of underpaid workers; was a founding member of SAG) and in politics (he aided in the formation of the Hungarian-American Council for Democracy to oppose Nazism and used every opportunity he could to demand that Washington do something to help the Jewish Hungarian refugees during this time). eh. Big ego? Maybe. I do know he described himself as "the leading actor of Hungary's Royal National Theatre" and did have that giant portrait of himself hanging in his home, but... what was I talking about again? Hopefully you realize that my getting worked up over this has nothing to do with you Shaxper. Far from it! "Favorite actor?" Man, I think my respect and appreciation for you is about to turn into hero worship or something creepier than that soon! Prima donna? If he was then there's no point in sugar coating and as I'm sure you'll agree, hardly a deal breaker when deciding whether someone was a good person. Like I said, Lugosi is one of those actors who deserves to be not even be better remembered than he is so much as differently remembered from how he often is so. At the same time though, if the swelled head was there, it shouldn't be conveniently forgotten about either.
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Post by chadwilliam on Jan 3, 2020 15:17:13 GMT -5
I don't count the 1948 Comedy at all. Not sure why you don't, Mecha. Is it because it's a comedy? The number one compliment I hear about Abbott and Costello Meets Frankenstein is how Abbott and Costello play it as a comedy while the monsters play it as a horror. I think this is a perfect summation of why it works so well and in fact, makes it one of my favorite films of all time. Of course, if Dracula attempting to put Lou Costello's brain inside the Frankenstein Monster is a little too hard to accept as part of what was previously a serious line of horror films, I think that's fair too.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 3, 2020 15:46:13 GMT -5
I'd love to listen to that. Can you explain a bit more about where you heard this? It's on the Kino Lorber Blu-ray (and I assume DVD) copy of The Devil Bat and the commentary is care of Richard Harland Smith. I didn't even know Kino Lorber did a version of Devil Bat. There are so many perfectly good copies in the public domain, it never even occurred to me to seek a fancy restoration. I'll have to see if I can track down this commentary elsewhere. Otherwise, it might be worth the cost of a fancy Blue ray edition that I don't actually need. That's hilarious! For what it's worth, Lee spoke far more respectfully of Lugosi in his 100 Years of Horror series, even going so far as to suggest Lugosi had inspired his own acting career. LOL he was a complex man. He was outlandishly kind to fans and friends, but just ask any of his many wives what he was like behind closed doors. He was a joy to work with for some, and a difficult prima donna for others. He led a tempestuous life, running away from home as a child to become an actor, then going on to have possibly the most up and down career in all of Hollywood, as well as numerous marriages and divorces -- how much of that is because of who he was and how much of that made him who he was is anyone's guess. He led a life full of blessings and curses, and while there's no denying it ended horribly, he lived like a king for many years and experienced a kind of fame and lifestyle you and I would be hard pressed to even imagine. I never took it that way, my friend. I always love our back and forths and always feel highly complimented when you follow me into yet another review thread. ummm...thank you? Thoroughly agreed. He certainly didn't shy away from being associated with Dracula, but that's nowhere near the full extent of the man's greatness. As I've said numerous times, it's not even in my top five favorite Lugosi films. But it also shouldn't eclipse the man's legacy. He had every right to believe he was important and worthy of great roles after Dracula. How he articulated it to Universal may have been arrogant, may have been misconstrued or distorted, or may have even been the result of his limited English. Who can say? I'm never comfortable trading in hearsay. In this case, it's simply the best explanation we have as to why Universal never put him in the cloak again.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 3, 2020 15:53:13 GMT -5
I don't count the 1948 Comedy at all. Not sure why you don't, Mecha. Is it because it's a comedy? The number one compliment I hear about Abbott and Costello Meets Frankenstein is how Abbott and Costello play it as a comedy while the monsters play it as a horror. I think this is a perfect summation of why it works so well and in fact, makes it one of my favorite films of all time. Of course, if Dracula attempting to put Lou Costello's brain inside the Frankenstein Monster is a little too hard to accept as part of what was previously a serious line of horror films, I think that's fair too. It's a favorite Halloween film I always put on with my kids, but, in a film series that wasn't at all concerned with canon, it's still just SO not canon. For me, the part I struggled with most was Dracula's interest in the Frankenstein monster to begin with. It just didn't make any sense and was clearly there just to service the plot. And while it was great to see Lugosi in the cape again, he really didn't get a chance to shine this time around. I love it, but I don't count it. Does that make sense?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 16:19:05 GMT -5
I don't count the 1948 Comedy at all. Not sure why you don't, Mecha. Is it because it's a comedy? The number one compliment I hear about Abbott and Costello Meets Frankenstein is how Abbott and Costello play it as a comedy while the monsters play it as a horror. I think this is a perfect summation of why it works so well and in fact, makes it one of my favorite films of all time. Of course, if Dracula attempting to put Lou Costello's brain inside the Frankenstein Monster is a little too hard to accept as part of what was previously a serious line of horror films, I think that's fair too. I can see where Shaxper is going ... but I can go either way whether its legit or not.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 3, 2020 20:20:29 GMT -5
Obligatory...
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