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Post by rberman on Jan 7, 2020 17:27:25 GMT -5
Astro City dominates this category. Good call on remembering Astro City, but I would argue that it's a little different insofar as the replacement of certain heroes with newer, younger versions is necessitated by the fact that the series is set in real time. That's not the case for Marvel and DC comic characters, so it's not really a fair comparison. Also it's not fair because Astro City does it only for story reasons, not as a "temporary replacement hero" to goose crumpling sales.
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Post by brutalis on Jan 8, 2020 7:56:44 GMT -5
You should have added a poll. That was my 1st thought as well, but when I started compiling a "list" to choose it just became too overwhelming and the poll list would be longer than the conversation! And it seems most of my poll's will only last a few pages at most and die a slow death. An open ended "discussion" seemed like a more plausible idea where everyone could contribute their personal takes on likes/dislikes of the trend.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 8, 2020 8:41:18 GMT -5
I have added polls when I started threads like this in the past and I feel it adds to the conversation. Either way, it’s a good subject.
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Post by brutalis on Jan 8, 2020 9:25:27 GMT -5
I have added polls when I started threads like this in the past and I feel it adds to the conversation. Either way, it’s a good subject. Maybe a possibility if enough people ask for it or the poll can focus upon the MAJOR changes that were significant and the new character remains taking on another identity like Ben Reilly Scarlet Spider, Eric Masterson Thunderstrike, Jim Rhodes War Machine, Wally West Flash, Kyle Rayner Ion and such?
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 8, 2020 9:32:18 GMT -5
Some of these replacements had legs as far as being the status quo. Kyle Raynor had 130 issues as Green lantern and James Rhodes lasted about 3 years as Ironman.
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Post by brutalis on Jan 8, 2020 10:33:52 GMT -5
Some of these replacements had legs as far as being the status quo. Kyle Raynor had 130 issues as Green lantern and James Rhodes lasted about 3 years as Ironman. Indeed my brother! I really liked when the replacement's intent was to more or less being a "permanent" deal. Kyle, Wally, Rhodey and Ben Reilly had time to grow into their own as characters and establish a new status quo. Their time in their roles seemed much more a natural progression and not rushed where suddenly after a 3rd issue they are "perfect" in the role or seem to being better than the original. or even worse, just a complete replacement that nothing seems any different. Wally West was given a difference in his power set and utilization of those powers and he epitomized the different character having a different take on the hero. Eric Masterson made for a somewhat poor Thor, yet managed to come into his own when taking on the Thunderstrike persona. James Twilley turned Grimjack upside down and this future "reincarnation" was a wild and woolly change that reinvigorated the concept. James Rhodes went from supporting character to lead creating major differences of characterization that helped move the stories along, even highlighting the vast differences between Stark and Rhodey being the man in the armor. Scott Lang proved himself worthy of the Ant Man outfit and his personality and skill set making him a very different character than when Pym was the man in the hill.
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 8, 2020 10:44:43 GMT -5
John Stewart as the next Green Lantern. Brilliant choice that married a critical issue of the era with the logical need for the Guardians to have another protector. Instead of Stewart acting like some early Silver Age character who would have jumped at the chance to be a superhero (e.g. Jimmy Olsen), Stewart had serious reservations about taking on the role of an enforcer. His initial conflict with Jordan over the former's temperament and world view made the chance for Stewart to become a Green Lantern fascinating, as one of DC's best known hero identities would never be seen quite the same again.
So, was Stewart a better GL than Jordan? I would say no, but he was a necessary and solid bookend to the kind of GL earth needed from that point forward.
Harry Osborn as the second Green Goblin. As if The Amazing Spider-Man #121 / 122 was not a torrential flood of drama and tragedy, the final panel of Spider-Man walking away from the scene of the Green Goblin's death teased a shadowy observer. At the time, no one imagined who would stand by at such a scene, just waiting, but over the next few issues, the noticeable hostility Harry Osborn projected toward everyone--notably Peter Parker--hinted that Harry knew something. By the time he discovered the Spider-Man mask among Peter's clothing, and (in a great visual cliffhanger) disappeared into the original Goblin's lair, readers knew where this was going. Harry as the second Green Goblin was not just another "guy takes over the role of another villain" plot; in-universe, Spider-Man's world was barely moving toward what anyone would describe as normal, but the shock of Gwen Stacy & Norman Osborn's deaths was still fresh; there was no way of losing that cloud overnight, so realistically, it still had great effect on the title well over year after those landmark issues were published. To that end in the comic, Harry would use said cloud to fuel psychological & would-be deadly attacks against Parker until the latter forced the younger Osborn into failure, then a ranting breakdown.
Still, Harry's feeling of abandonment, betrayal and the idea that his father had been murdered were Gerry Conway's (arguably justified) motives for an unhinged son to seek revenge as his father, reveling in the idea of inflicting terror & pain on people he used to count as part of his inner circle. The coda of Harry's first run as the Goblin had Peter tell the police that he would help him in any way he could...because he's Harry's friend. There was no triumphant, stand-over-the-villain's-body moment here, but loyalty and some understanding from one hurt man to another. I won't say Harry was a superior Goblin to his father (he was not), but in building the legacy of a hero's greatest foe (at a time when the aura of tragedy was so much a part of the title), he was a great compliment to the original.
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Post by rberman on Jan 8, 2020 12:06:14 GMT -5
Gotta love Beta Ray Bill. Even Odin admitted he made a great Thor. I'm a fan of the new Ms. Marvel as well.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Jan 8, 2020 12:31:49 GMT -5
Back in the Golden Age, both the Black Owl and the Green Mask had multiple versions of the same secret identity; the former was an explicit handoff, the latter was unexplained.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 8, 2020 13:08:07 GMT -5
Not quite the same but in All-Star Western # 2-5 Rick Wilson was the titular "Outlaw" of the first feature. When Joe Orlando took over as Editor from Dick Giordano Wilson was out as "Outlaw" and Bob Kanigher was out as the writer replaced by Billy the Kid: Outlaw as written by John Albano. I haven't read the later stories in eons but I recently re-read the former and they were a bit of a mess.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 13:27:42 GMT -5
I don't pay anything to this subject matter and I just have a hard time dealing with any replacements at all. Sorry.
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Post by MDG on Jan 8, 2020 14:02:31 GMT -5
The Phantom was based on "replacements" and pre-dates any comic book characters.
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Post by brutalis on Jan 8, 2020 14:53:26 GMT -5
The Phantom was based on "replacements" and pre-dates any comic book characters. Is replacement the right word? Wouldn't inheritance or birthright be more appropriate? The "Title" of Phantom is taught and trained for to be handed down generation to generation from father to son/daughter. What happens if you don't want to go into Dad's line of work after all the years of preparation?
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Post by rberman on Jan 8, 2020 15:22:38 GMT -5
The Phantom was based on "replacements" and pre-dates any comic book characters. Is replacement the right word? Wouldn't inheritance or birthright be more appropriate? The "Title" of Phantom is taught and trained for to be handed down generation to generation from father to son/daughter. What happens if you don't want to go into Dad's line of work after all the years of preparation? It's a kind of replacement. Who would turn down the honor of wearing a purple bodysuit all day every day? Be realistic.
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Post by brutalis on Jan 8, 2020 15:50:12 GMT -5
Is replacement the right word? Wouldn't inheritance or birthright be more appropriate? The "Title" of Phantom is taught and trained for to be handed down generation to generation from father to son/daughter. What happens if you don't want to go into Dad's line of work after all the years of preparation? It's a kind of replacement. Who would turn down the honor of wearing a purple bodysuit all day every day? Be realistic. Anyone with a fashion sense? C'mon, Purple Pajama's would clash with all that glorious jungle splendor. The only purple/green combo that really works is Hulk with his ripped purple jeans!
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