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Post by Duragizer on Jan 8, 2020 18:08:34 GMT -5
I remember the release of the Spider-Man/Superman cross-over in 1976 and the later Hulk/Batman crossover. I never read either one and found the whole idea of DC and Marvel characters meeting unappealing and uninteresting. I have been completely ignorant of subsequent cross-overs until reading this thread. So I guess I'm in the minority when I say: no cross-overs ever, please. I thought Batman/Hulk and X-Men/Titans were quite good but I'm fine with them being a one-off, don't ever want to see the "universes" merged. Indeed. After all the Interminable Crises, isn't Clutter Earth cluttered enough? |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 8, 2020 18:37:30 GMT -5
Shared or separate? I don’t really mind, provided that all the energy be put into telling a neat story and not reconciling continuities! By that I mean I’m fine with the X-Men running into the Teen Titans and saying something like “yeah, we hear a lot of good about you” and not trying to explain how it could be that they never met before. I’m also fine with the Fantastic Four trying one of Reed’s transdimensional whatchamacallits and ending up meeting a man of steel and a dude dressed like a bat on a parallel Earth. Just don’t waste time workimg out the nuts and bolts of the meeting; just get on with the fun.
Oh, and naturally all such meetings should be seen as imaginary stories. As Alan Moore said, “aren’t they all”?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 18:56:25 GMT -5
Oh, and naturally all such meetings should be seen as imaginary stories. As Alan Moore said, “aren’t they all”? As Darth Vader once said, "Noooooooooo!" |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 8, 2020 19:01:25 GMT -5
Oh, and naturally all such meetings should be seen as imaginary stories. As Alan Moore said, “aren’t they all”? As Darth Vader once said, "Noooooooooo!" was an imaginary story!  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 19:03:24 GMT -5
Strangely, given what I said in my initial post, I am a fan of "imaginary stories". Love them. I just don't want the DC/Marvel crossovers to be non-canonical.
That said, I am the world's biggest hypocrite at the best of times. I mean, I prefer Mars Bar to Snickers, but prefer Snickers Ice Cream to Mars Ice Cream. What does that say about me as a person?
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Post by rberman on Jan 8, 2020 19:22:00 GMT -5
That said, I am the world's biggest hypocrite at the best of times. I mean, I prefer Mars Bar to Snickers, but prefer Snickers Ice Cream to Mars Ice Cream. What does that say about me as a person? I like ketchup but not vinegar or tomatoes, so... We all have our weirdnesses. |
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Post by berkley on Jan 9, 2020 1:32:43 GMT -5
Oh, and naturally all such meetings should be seen as imaginary stories. As Alan Moore said, “aren’t they all”? As Darth Vader once said, "Noooooooooo!" I thought that was Luke Skywalker? |
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Post by berkley on Jan 9, 2020 1:56:08 GMT -5
I haven't liked the DC/Marvel crossovers that I've looked at, largely because there aren't that many DC characters that I like much, and the few exceptions don't tend to be the ones that get much screen time in these things.
As far as the shared earth vs alternate universes question, I didn't even know there was such a thing as the former, so I'm definitely in the alternate universes camp. The thing I'd try that I haven't seen done is to go all the way with the "difference between the universes" theme that Krt Busiek played with in his and Perez's JL/Avengers and make the DC heroes weaker (slower, etc) in the MU and the Marvel characters stronger (faster, etc) in the DCU, to even up the playing field in both cases. I know this sounds like a trivial "Rumbles board" kind of point, but it really kills the drama if the characters from one universe are so overtly superior to those of the other.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 9, 2020 3:00:54 GMT -5
I guess shared? You can cut the filler - pseudosciency nonsense - and get to the stuff people want to see. JLA/Avengers worked for me because the JLA is (optimally) already steeped in cosmic treadmills and what-have-you so it didn't yank characters out of their genre and setting.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 9, 2020 3:05:36 GMT -5
You can avoid clutter by either (A) thinking it's hilarious that the JLA must always show up six second after Galactus is beaten every. single. time, (B) ignoring it, or (C) just not caring. In other words dealing with it the exact same way that editorial has always dealt with superhero comics continuity at least since 1970 0r so... just handwave the inconvenient parts, and realize that maybe 1% of your audience will care and it won't affect sales.
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Post by berkley on Jan 9, 2020 4:17:44 GMT -5
You can avoid clutter by either (A) thinking it's hilarious that the JLA must always show up six second after Galactus is beaten every. single. time, (B) ignoring it, or (C) just not caring. In other words dealing with it the exact same way that editorial has always dealt with superhero comics continuity at least since 1970 0r so... just handwave the inconvenient parts, and realize that maybe 1% of your audience will care and it won't affect sales. As far as all that goes, the same problem already exists in the MU all by itself, so there's no special reason for the crossover to explain it away: what were the Avengers doing that was so much more important than Galactus back in FF 49-50, etc?
Maybe I don't understand the idea of the shared earth - but I see the MU and DCU of the 60s & 70s (that is what we're talking about, right?) as so different in sensibility and in fictional "in-universe" history that an imaginary superhero universe where they all coexisted and interacted from the get-go doesn't make any sense or have any appeal to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 6:27:47 GMT -5
Maybe I don't understand the idea of the shared earth - but I see the MU and DCU of the 60s & 70s (that is what we're talking about, right?) as so different in sensibility and in fictional "in-universe" history that an imaginary superhero universe where they all coexisted and interacted from the get-go doesn't make any sense or have any appeal to me.
I've been more of a mind of picturing late '70s (the time of the fist crossovers, which seems like a natural place to start with comparing the sensibilities of the two universes) to modern comics, but then, I wasn't raised with, and have no fondness for, silver age or much bronze age DC. When I think "DC universe" in general, I think post-crisis, but I'm probably in a minority here. The idea of Marvel and DC heroes existing in the same universe only has to be acceptable for the amount of time to takes you to read a crossover. As far as I'm concerned, it gets the job done. I don't think anybody's saying "It's cool to think that the JLA and Teen Titans are somewhere outside Daredevil's window while I'm sitting here reading DD's latest monthly adventure". Or maybe somebody is saying that, but if so, it's not necessary. The shared-universe idea is a don't-fret-about-continuity tool you are free to put back in the toolbox when you're done with it. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 9, 2020 7:10:35 GMT -5
You can avoid clutter by either (A) thinking it's hilarious that the JLA must always show up six second after Galactus is beaten every. single. time, (B) ignoring it, or (C) just not caring. In other words dealing with it the exact same way that editorial has always dealt with superhero comics continuity at least since 1970 0r so... just handwave the inconvenient parts, and realize that maybe 1% of your audience will care and it won't affect sales. Yes, just... Yes. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 9, 2020 7:12:14 GMT -5
You can avoid clutter by either (A) thinking it's hilarious that the JLA must always show up six second after Galactus is beaten every. single. time, (B) ignoring it, or (C) just not caring. In other words dealing with it the exact same way that editorial has always dealt with superhero comics continuity at least since 1970 0r so... just handwave the inconvenient parts, and realize that maybe 1% of your audience will care and it won't affect sales. As far as all that goes, the same problem already exists in the MU all by itself, so there's no special reason for the crossover to explain it away: what were the Avengers doing that was so much more important than Galactus back in FF 49-50, etc?
Maybe I don't understand the idea of the shared earth - but I see the MU and DCU of the 60s & 70s (that is what we're talking about, right?) as so different in sensibility and in fictional "in-universe" history that an imaginary superhero universe where they all coexisted and interacted from the get-go doesn't make any sense or have any appeal to me.
I've heard this point before and I remember the Galactus story occurring over a short amount of time. Didn't the three issues happen in a matter of hours? |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 9, 2020 7:58:54 GMT -5
As far as all that goes, the same problem already exists in the MU all by itself, so there's no special reason for the crossover to explain it away: what were the Avengers doing that was so much more important than Galactus back in FF 49-50, etc?
Maybe I don't understand the idea of the shared earth - but I see the MU and DCU of the 60s & 70s (that is what we're talking about, right?) as so different in sensibility and in fictional "in-universe" history that an imaginary superhero universe where they all coexisted and interacted from the get-go doesn't make any sense or have any appeal to me.
I've heard this point before and I remember the Galactus story occurring over a short amount of time. Didn't the three issues happen in a matter of hours? Yup. And the Avengers were out at sea dealing with Attuma, and thus had no idea the Galactus thing was even happening (at least that's what I decided years ago when I was plotting my proposed "What If The Silver Surfer Hadn't Betrayed Galactus?" issue of What If?).
Cei-U! I summon the futile exercise in alternate history!
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