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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 17:15:07 GMT -5
I like the inking Greg Theakston did on Kirby's pencils in the Super Powers series.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 17:15:08 GMT -5
Kirby's greatest strength were...three inkers: Frank Giacoia, Joe Sinnott and Syd Shores. They refined his tendency toward exaggeration and robotic-looking humans, fully realizing what he was trying to communicate. All one needs to do is gaze at his work on Captain America and The Fantaatic Four, then imagine those men never working with him at all. This partnership gave him a massive edge over Ditko, who had a style that was not going to really grow independently or working with anyone else. Put it this way: one could argue with confidence that The Fantastic Four never looked better/had a greater impact after the Kirby/Sinnott run, but few ever say that about The Amazing Spider-Man after Ditko's departure. In fact, its almost always the extreme opposite. So, if you are forced to choose between the two, that should give anyone an easy choice to make about the greater talent. Good Points ...  |
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Post by electricmastro on Jan 14, 2020 17:32:19 GMT -5
When new artists came to Marvel in the 60s, Stan always said, just look at Kirby. I suppose I take a slight more negative take on that, as while Kirby is definitely worth learning from as to how to maintain quality art, I get the feeling that artists were too encouraged to emulate his style a little too much to the point of discouraging one’s own personal style. Not to say every artist draws exactly the same, but I suppose there’s a reason why later artists such as Bill Sienkiewicz were seen as decidedly different by the time he drew for New Mutants in the 1980s. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Jan 14, 2020 17:41:31 GMT -5
I have to go with Kirby. Both great designers and plotters, both had lots of ideas, and Spidey matches up with any other comic creation out there, but I think Kirby had more stuff that I like - so much that he created at both Marvel and DC, plus, which I don't love the actual art of either guy, I do like Kirby's art more than Ditko's, for sure.
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 14, 2020 18:26:03 GMT -5
When new artists came to Marvel in the 60s, Stan always said, just look at Kirby. I suppose I take a slight more negative take on that, as while Kirby is definitely worth learning from as to how to maintain quality art, I get the feeling that artists were too encouraged to emulate his style a little too much to the point of discouraging one’s own personal style. Not to say every artist draws exactly the same, but I suppose there’s a reason why later artists such as Bill Sienkiewicz were seen as decidedly different by the time he drew for New Mutants in the 1980s. It wasn't about style. The Marvel Method, with artists telling the story needed strong narrative skills. Kirby is the best storyteller ever. Stan wanted them to learn how to tell a story from a synopsis, with no page to page script like other comics. |
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Post by foxley on Jan 14, 2020 18:28:56 GMT -5
Put it this way: one could argue with confidence that The Fantastic Four never looked better/had a greater impact after the Kirby/Sinnott run, It's all a matter of personal taste. I'd say that FF looked much better under Byrne. |
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Post by berkley on Jan 14, 2020 18:34:36 GMT -5
They say you should judge an artist, writer, etc by his or her best work. From that POV, and taking "best" to mean whatever made the biggest impression on me, it's pretty much even, with Ditko's Doctor Strange ranking right up there with all my favourite Kirby stuff.
OTOH, there's a lot more than just one Kirby title that I rate at or near the very top of my personal best-of-all-time comics list, so looking at it that way Kirby gets the nod from me.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jan 14, 2020 18:56:58 GMT -5
Put it this way: one could argue with confidence that The Fantastic Four never looked better/had a greater impact after the Kirby/Sinnott run, It's all a matter of personal taste. I'd say that FF looked much better under Byrne. I agree. Strictly in terms of the art, I'd take Byrne's FF over Kirby's. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 19:26:54 GMT -5
I like both Byrne and Kirby's takes on the Fantastic Four, for sentimental reasons ... I always felt that the team of Lee and Kirby is the best and I loved John Byrne work on the Fantastic Four too. I'm a Kirby Fan and always be.
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Post by Mister Spaceman on Jan 14, 2020 19:48:01 GMT -5
I suppose I take a slight more negative take on that, as while Kirby is definitely worth learning from as to how to maintain quality art, I get the feeling that artists were too encouraged to emulate his style a little too much to the point of discouraging one’s own personal style. Not to say every artist draws exactly the same, but I suppose there’s a reason why later artists such as Bill Sienkiewicz were seen as decidedly different by the time he drew for New Mutants in the 1980s. It wasn't about style. The Marvel Method, with artists telling the story needed strong narrative skills. Kirby is the best storyteller ever. Stan wanted them to learn how to tell a story from a synopsis, with no page to page script like other comics. For decades Jim Shooter has used Strange Tales #114 to demonstrate the (sometimes simple) brilliance of Kirby's visual storytelling techniques: storytelling.jimshooter.com/strange-tales/ |
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Post by brianf on Jan 14, 2020 21:40:11 GMT -5
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Post by earl on Jan 14, 2020 21:40:59 GMT -5
I'd say Steve Ditko's early contributions to the Hulk are a bit under-appreciated in the scheme of his Marvel work. After all, he was the first to draw the Leader and the paranoid vibe of those early Ditko issues does have a bit of an influence on how the comic developed.
Ditko is great, but Jack Kirby was an idea machine.
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Post by electricmastro on Jan 15, 2020 0:59:25 GMT -5
I suppose I take a slight more negative take on that, as while Kirby is definitely worth learning from as to how to maintain quality art, I get the feeling that artists were too encouraged to emulate his style a little too much to the point of discouraging one’s own personal style. Not to say every artist draws exactly the same, but I suppose there’s a reason why later artists such as Bill Sienkiewicz were seen as decidedly different by the time he drew for New Mutants in the 1980s. It wasn't about style. The Marvel Method, with artists telling the story needed strong narrative skills. Kirby is the best storyteller ever. Stan wanted them to learn how to tell a story from a synopsis, with no page to page script like other comics. Yeah, the Marvel Method was pretty much what I was referring to. Definitely got the job done in terms of attempting to be strong on a narrative level, I'll admit. |
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Post by Duragizer on Jan 15, 2020 1:06:29 GMT -5
If I judge strictly by their talents as illustrators alone, I say they tie. But as a storyteller, Kirby was light-years beyond Ditko. Also, Kirby wasn't a frikkin' Randroid.
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Post by junkmonkey on Jan 15, 2020 5:02:11 GMT -5
My distaste for Jack's Kirby's art, and bewilderment by the level of uncritical worship his name evokes, compels me to vote for Ditko. At least his characters had different faces, and not everyone looked like a caveman.  *Takes jacket off* Sir, would you care to step outside for a moment?  *Holds Taxidriver's jacket*
I'm not normally one for letting the personality of an artist get in the way of their art. Their political/social views are of little interest to me - unless explicitly made manifest in their work - it's what they DO that matters to me. Some abhorrent human beings have made great art over the years - but what I have read about Ditko and Kirby leads me to the conclusion that Kirby was a much nicer, kinder, more humane person than Ditko who, quite frankly, sounds like a bit of an arse.
And I like Kirby's art more too. There was a weight to it that Ditko's never had. Ditko's characters seemed always to be contorting themselves like dancers and I really disliked that bandy-legged thing he did so often: 
And all that emanata... OK, using it to indicate Peter Parker's Spidy senses are tingling (not that I've ever been a Spiderman fan) is one thing. But he seemed to slap it on all over the place for any kind of alarm / surprise / shock. I find that irritating.
Sorry, No. Kirby wins hands down. Even if he was the last person in the world drawing pork pie hats on his background characters.
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