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Post by thwhtguardian on Mar 28, 2020 5:41:56 GMT -5
I don't trust digital. When I first got an Ipod 10+ years ago I bought a few songs on Itunes that I luckily burned to CD soon after. When my first Ipod crapped out and I got a replacement I went back to re-add songs I noticed a lot of the song I bought were no longer available on Itunes and were removed from my library. Lucky the songs I burned onto CD I could upload then put them on my Ipod. I've heard stories of digital copies of magazines disappearing from peoples readers when the mags were cancelled. All I know is the floppy comics I own can only be taken from if if I sell them, or if I get ripped off. I've been using comixology since 2008 and Dark Horse Digital and that has yet to happen. Heck I can still read all the Star Wars books on Dark Horse and they don't even publish that book any more and the same is true for Usagi. It seems pretty stable.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 28, 2020 11:19:21 GMT -5
I know I am a relic. I don't trust digital. I know things have improved but I have "lost" music and I feel with digital you don't own the material you are renting it. Recent example Marvel stuff on Netflix? Gone. To watch it I now have to get Disney plus. Yet if I had it on DVD it wouldn't be an issue. I agree stuff that I would only watch or read once digital is fine. But anything I may watch or read multiple times I want to own a physical copy. Nobody ever pretended that the stuff on Netflix was going to be there forever or that anyone had an ownership interest in that content.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 16:31:17 GMT -5
Thank you for the lecture. I appreciate (not really)the detailed explanation on how I was wrong in my obviously poor choice of examples on why I don't like digital. No wonder taxidriver left here. It's obvious you got my general meaning by providing a better example. I still don't like streaming services for stuff I may want to watch multiple times in my life. Since you didn't appreciate my post, I deleted it. -M
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 29, 2020 21:42:01 GMT -5
Just to give y'all an example of why I (personal) don't trust digital. Sometime (oh, maybe 4-5 years ago) my wife and I were re-watching Babylon 5, which we own on DVD. The DVD are ANCIENT (before even the technology to save you place on the disk) and have been well worn.. there was one particular episode that just wouldn't play due to a scratch on the disk. (I know, go ahead and point out how having the disk isn't permanent either.. that's a fair point). She purchase the episode on Amazon Prime at the time. She is rewatching it now with my 15 year old, and came to that episode again, and had to Re-buy it.. the purchase was gone. Did Amazon lose the rights, the re-acquire them? I have no idea, but it was extremely annoying.
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Post by brianf on Mar 30, 2020 13:46:56 GMT -5
I don't trust digital. When I first got an Ipod 10+ years ago I bought a few songs on Itunes that I luckily burned to CD soon after. When my first Ipod crapped out and I got a replacement I went back to re-add songs I noticed a lot of the song I bought were no longer available on Itunes and were removed from my library. Lucky the songs I burned onto CD I could upload then put them on my Ipod. I've heard stories of digital copies of magazines disappearing from peoples readers when the mags were cancelled. All I know is the floppy comics I own can only be taken from if if I sell them, or if I get ripped off. I've been using comixology since 2008 and Dark Horse Digital and that has yet to happen. Heck I can still read all the Star Wars books on Dark Horse and they don't even publish that book any more and the same is true for Usagi. It seems pretty stable. Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results And I really don't want to get in an argument - It's just my POV, your mileage may vary. Carry on
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Post by thwhtguardian on Mar 30, 2020 20:18:40 GMT -5
I've been using comixology since 2008 and Dark Horse Digital and that has yet to happen. Heck I can still read all the Star Wars books on Dark Horse and they don't even publish that book any more and the same is true for Usagi. It seems pretty stable. Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results And I really don't want to get in an argument - It's just my POV, your mileage may vary. Carry on Past performance is in fact the only thing you can use to accurately predict and prepare for the future...the opposite is just illogical. It's fine to have personal preferences on how one reads, but that the technology is unpredictable or untested just isn't true anymore.
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Post by beyonder on Apr 2, 2020 22:17:21 GMT -5
I don't trust digital. When I first got an Ipod 10+ years ago I bought a few songs on Itunes that I luckily burned to CD soon after. When my first Ipod crapped out and I got a replacement I went back to re-add songs I noticed a lot of the song I bought were no longer available on Itunes and were removed from my library. Lucky the songs I burned onto CD I could upload then put them on my Ipod. I've heard stories of digital copies of magazines disappearing from peoples readers when the mags were cancelled. All I know is the floppy comics I own can only be taken from if if I sell them, or if I get ripped off. Agreed, but I was pleasantly surprised to see I can still read a book I bought on Comixology in 2012, although it was removed from the website in the meantime.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Apr 8, 2020 15:04:42 GMT -5
The fear of digital only makes sense to me if someone was building a digital library of things they really care about: classic runs, complete runs by favorite creators, etc. I don't think many people are doing that and instead work at either collecting the back issues or putting together nice trade or hardcover collections. I can only speak for myself, but I don't really care if I have access to a modern DC/Marvel book in ten years that I would have only read once anyway. That said, I want the physical collections of classics like Hal Foster's Prince Valiant, Bark's Duck comics and Jack Kirby's classic runs.
It's absurd to me that Marvel and DC still hold fast to the DRM model when Image doesn't. Digital readers aren't the same species as speculators and collectors and I've always been highly dubious that Marvel and DC allowing downloads of their comics would have much effect at all on retailers. It already irritates me that the direct market has been shielded from having to fairly compete with digital in terms of price point, but not releasing new comics digitally just because stores can't get physical books has taken my irritation one step further.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 18:34:17 GMT -5
I neither fear nor mistrust digital. To me, it's just a resource to check out books of interest. If I like them, I get the actual books. On many occasions, the publisher still won't benefit if I obtain them through the 'secondary' market eg ebay. DCeased, Heroes in Crisis, Black Widow sets, all from ebay.
I won't complain if the publishers go digital while actual comics are put on hold during this pandemic. But I'm not a collector of digital scans. I'll wait.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 21:06:05 GMT -5
I neither fear nor mistrust digital. To me, it's just a resource to check out books of interest. If I like them, I get the actual books. On many occasions, the publisher still won't benefit if I obtain them through the 'secondary' market eg ebay. DCeased, Heroes in Crisis, Black Widow sets, all from ebay. I won't complain if the publishers go digital while actual comics are put on hold during this pandemic. But I'm not a collector of digital scans. I'll wait. well technically in most cases now, you are a collector of print outs of digitally created comics. In many cases, the digital versions are the originals these days, not scans of physical art. Usually some stage of the creation of each page is digital. 99.9 percent of lettering and coloring is done digitally now, more than half the inking done now is digital as well, and a fair percentage of the pencils are not done on art board, but on screen. The days of digital versions being scans of physical products is long in the past. That said, I still prefer to own hard copies of the stuff I like, so I get that sentiment, but more and more of the production of comics is done digitally now, and with the way the direct market worked before the hiatus with pre-orders determining print runs, it was a "print-on-demand" hobby niche industry, not a mass market publishing industry in terms of single issues. So when print-on-demand ceases to be profitable, i.e. the niche market becomes too small to cover print production costs, some other market model will become the norm. -M
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Post by rom on Apr 9, 2020 9:40:07 GMT -5
Local Comic Stores (LCS's) have been on life support for years well before the virus, so I can completely see how this pandemic will cause many of them to go out of business entirely.
I will completely admit to eschewing LCS's completely about 5 years ago. I got tired of dealing with their bull$%$# (as I've mentioned in other threads) and it also wasn't convenient to be driving to & from the store 2-3 times a month. It's a lot easier & cost-effective to order the Collected Editions (CE's) I want online, and have them delivered directly to my door. If anything, I probably buy more CE's now than I did when I went to LCS because I'm saving money (by not having to pay full price) and it's a lot easier to get the books due to not having to go & pick them up.
I'm no economist, but I suspect that CE's can still exist and make money even without LCS to distribute them at all. Even now, I believe a lot of collectors are like me & order online exclusively. I.e., I can easily see paper CE's still being produced - but in much lower #'s.
What probably would suffer (if all LCS closed) are floppies, since I don't know if you can order these online as readily, or even if you would want to (the concern would be that they would easily bend while being shipped, etc.). So, if floppies stop being produced will CE's of older material still continue to be produced?! I don't know.
Also, if comics go 100% digital and there are no more paper copies of anything, I'm quitting the hobby cold-turkey. Screw that. I have 0 interest in digital comics & will not buy or read these.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 16, 2020 22:41:21 GMT -5
I could see digital being the 1st release and then only printing collections... that would be the most logical place for the market to go right now, really.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 18, 2020 5:20:19 GMT -5
It sounds like DC might be temporarily by-passing Diamond to self distribute their books latter this month. If that actually works I think it could get real interesting for Diamond.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 13:39:06 GMT -5
It sounds like DC might be temporarily by-passing Diamond to self distribute their books latter this month. If that actually works I think it could get real interesting for Diamond. The two companies they are working with are not distributors but shell companies for comic shops with huge online sales-DCBS and Midtown Comics. So DC is essentially asking comic shop owners to give money to their competitors who traditionally undercut them on prices by selling at huge discounts, essentially that 40% discount DCBS gives is what most retailers pay for books because of the volume discount DCBS usually gets, and DCBS will be selling comics to customers at the same price they sell to other retailers. I am not sure how many retailers will buy into that once Diamond is back up and running, and some, essentially a coalition led by Brian Hibbs, are considering not ordering form either one. Retailers were given 4 days to set up accounts with one or the other (you can't choose, they are splitting the country geographically, in the west you have to work with DCBS, in the east with Midtown, and neither have revealed terms of service, things like shipping charges, or the details of the contract yet, so if you are a retailer you have to enter into a contract blind without knowing the terms of it. Have you read Brian Hibbs long response to this (he posted it on social media but its been picked up by a few newssites)? And essentially DC is only offering the fringe titles (stuff like Hill House, 2nd printings and Giants) through these companies, they are saving their core titles (like Batman with all the Punchline stuff) for later when more stores are open and Diamond is back in the game. I am no expert, but that doesn't sound much like an improvement from Diamond, it sounds like people exploiting the situation to their benefit. And I don't think it will do much to change Diamond's position in the marketplace long term. Now if Penguin Random House had gotten in the game like was rumored, that might be a game changer, but this feels more like a blip than a shift in the market. -M
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 13:40:36 GMT -5
Here's Hibbs response...
-M
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