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Post by Prince Hal on May 23, 2020 15:15:43 GMT -5
I believe the intention for creating Robin was to give Batman someone to talk to - a Dr. Watson to his Holmes. Now, as Batman himself proved, a superhero Holmes works beautifully, but I've never been convinced that we really needed a superhero Dr. Watson. With Robin's purpose being to make Batman look good, a number of stories which spring to mind (ie. Batman #246's " How Many Ways Can a Robin Die?" which was my first thought or even " Robin Dies at Dawn!" which seems to be loved by a lot of readers) simply have him playing the role of the macguffin and don't real feel like a "Great Robin Story" so much as a "Great Story Which Happens to Use Robin as a Lynchpin". Well, yes, it's handy to have a Watson, but truth be told, Watson was more than simply a gut to ask Holmes how he figured everything out. He was reliable aide to Holmes who supplied muscle (and an armed ally) more than once. the movie version played by Nigel Bruce, while always fun to watch, became more and more useless as the series went on. He was a far cry from Doyle's Watson. I think Robin was intended to be for the reasons usually cited: to humanize Batman and to provide a way in for young readers. No, I tend to think based on my own experience, that I didn't need Robin as my way into Batman comics, but others' mileage ay have varied in the Golden Age. Adopting Robin changed Batman (and Bruce, too) into a much more rounded character who became more than a Terminator robot. Suddenly there was risk involved in Batman was doing. What began as a vendetta evolves into a crusade, and a quest for vengeance becomes a pursuit of justice. Though the notion that Batman loved Robin like a son and more was not played up much, when it was, the reader appreciated that beneath the beloved tropes of the Batman mythos, there were two realistic characters at its heart. Your point about "Robin Dies at Dawn" is well taken, chad, and it made me realize that the story that precedes it it, "The Secret of the Ant-Man," is more than just a nice gimmick. If you'll recall, it features Robin filling in for Batman, who has been gone for a while "on a secret mission." Robin is left to solve a mystery, break up a crime ring and uncover the eponymous secret on his own, and does s splendid job. In that story we see just how well Batman has trained and taught Robin i relationship that encompasses not just being a father and son, but also master and pupil, comrades in arms and orphans in the storm. In the key scene of "Robin Dies at Dawn," we see not just the love and courage of Robin, but Batman's guilt at leaving Robin alone in Gotham City in the previous story and the depth of his love for Robin while also giving us a glimpse of the hero the young Robin already has become.. Granted, this is all in a Jack Schiff-edited Silver Age package, but every once in a while, the gold glimmers amid the dross, and I think this is one of those moments. It was a wonderful story for young readers, but it also warms the heart of at least one old bastard. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 23, 2020 15:41:50 GMT -5
I haven't really read much Silver Age Batman and Robin... I'd have to agree with Shax that Judas Contract is #1... IIRC, Lonely place in dying (where Dick Grayson becomes Nightwing) would be 2nd... almost all one story, really.
There are certainly others I liked as Nightwing, but that's 'the Greatest Dick Grayson stories' not 'Robin Stories'
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Post by berkley on May 23, 2020 17:38:18 GMT -5
That one where he meets Little John crossing a bridge and neither one will make way to let the other one pass, that was a good one.
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Post by chadwilliam on May 24, 2020 0:54:15 GMT -5
I believe the intention for creating Robin was to give Batman someone to talk to - a Dr. Watson to his Holmes. Now, as Batman himself proved, a superhero Holmes works beautifully, but I've never been convinced that we really needed a superhero Dr. Watson. With Robin's purpose being to make Batman look good, a number of stories which spring to mind (ie. Batman #246's " How Many Ways Can a Robin Die?" which was my first thought or even " Robin Dies at Dawn!" which seems to be loved by a lot of readers) simply have him playing the role of the macguffin and don't real feel like a "Great Robin Story" so much as a "Great Story Which Happens to Use Robin as a Lynchpin". What began as a vendetta evolves into a crusade, and a quest for vengeance becomes a pursuit of justice. That's really well put. The relatively recent idea that Batman needs a Robin to keep him level headed or even sane isn't one I like simply because it's so insulting to Batman, but it's hard to believe that we would have had that mentally adult, well adjusted, fleshed out interpretation of Batman during the Golden/Silver Age had he not have had Robin to play off of. Before Robin, Bruce Wayne seemed to spend his time either visiting crime scenes with Gordon, or smoking a pipe while waiting for the radio to report that Hugo Strange was on the loose. With Dick Grayson in the picture however, you saw him at all sorts of events which had nothing to do with crime fighting. You really started to get the impression that behind this Batman's mask was a real person with a social life and interests beyond those which served the story. A sort of secret life which exited behind his other secret life. |
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Post by chaykinstevens on May 24, 2020 12:11:21 GMT -5
I only liked Robin when Doug Moench was writing Jason Todd. My favourite story was probably Flying Hi in Detective Comics #561 by Moench, Gene Colan, Bob Smith and Ricardo Villagran, which featured Jason's first solo adventure.
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Post by Batflunkie on May 24, 2020 12:20:34 GMT -5
I think my favorite Robin story has to be "The Narrow Path" from Robin Annual #3  And yes, I know I gush about this one a lot, but for good reason. Namely it's what got me interested in feudal Japan and comics in general |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 24, 2020 13:55:41 GMT -5
As I've stated before, I despise kid sidekicks in general and Robin in particular regardless of who's behind the mask. That said, if I *have* to pick a "greatest" story for the character, I'll choose The Brave and the Bold #182, "Interlude on Earth-Two" by Alan Brennert and Jim Aparo. Brennert's depiction of the E2 Robin's resentment towards the E1 Batman rooted in his unresolved feelings about the death of his Bruce Wayne was incisive and completely believable. It was also a major influence on my own portrayal of Dick Grayson in "Lash House." Cei-U! I only steal from the best! I’ll just go ahead and piggyback on this post as I agree with it 100%. |
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Post by Hoosier X on May 24, 2020 15:01:01 GMT -5
I know it's perhaps a big coincidence, but my second choice for "Greatest Robin Story" would probably also be from that Batman #32 issue I mentioned above (perhaps they were just on a roll with that issue). " Dick Grayson, Boy Wonder". Unusually for a story of this vintage, the tale is actually a flashback to what happened immediately following the events in Detective Comics #38 where Batman and Dick Grayson are introduced and take down "Boss" Zucco. We get a recap of the death of the Graysons, "Let me through! They're not...?", "I'm afraid so, son!", Dick overhearing Zucco's "Too bad about that accident" spiel, "They murdered Mom and Dad! I'm going to the police!", Batman entering the scene - "No, boy... not yet!", a beautiful moody Dick Sprang penciled Batman with his hand on the young boy's shoulder intoning "We need proof!", the training, and Robin swooping down on Zucco (on a street corner and not a construction site as in the original). Following that, Bruce Wayne tells young Grayson that he can go back to the circus, Dick objects saying he wants to continue being Robin, Wayne points out that he did well, but only because he was angry, and the two agree to see how well the boy acquits himself on their next case before deciding his future. Robin meets Gordon, they go up against a gangster with a lisp, Robin is injured, but gets out of the hospital, saves Batman's life, and is offered the spot at the Dark Knight's side. Weird seeing a flashback to Robin's origin when I don't think we saw a flashback to Batman's after Detective Comics #33 (well, the Batman #1 reprint aside) by this point and like I said, the art is by Dick Sprang and the story is written by Bill Finger. Really, if you wanted to construct a chronology of Dick Grayson's history, you'd have to place this one right after Detective Comics#38.I've never read this one! I'll have to see if Batman #32 is available on Comixology! |
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Post by Hoosier X on May 24, 2020 15:12:43 GMT -5
I love all the times that any Robin fought Crazy Quilt: Star Spangled Comics #123 Batman #368 Detective Comics #535 |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,878
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Post by shaxper on May 25, 2020 7:37:05 GMT -5
I love all the times that any Robin fought Crazy Quilt: I thought about including Jason Todd's first confrontation with him for how shocking and believable the outcome was, but then it all got wiped away with the next issue  |
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