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Post by zaku on Sept 30, 2022 7:55:27 GMT -5
Thank you. I wonder what a reader thought at the time. Obviously, nothing important could happen in MTU to Peter Parker (I'm talking about private life of course). So when you read about these more or less serious sentimental stories that you knew would end in nothing, how did it feel? Some kind of joke? Honestly, I think it just rolled off my back; I accepted her as part of any given story and then didn't give it much thought afterward (I was only 11 years old at the time...) In fact, I gave the character so little thought that when she was included in that page in the Spidey annual (I couldn't get it out my head and actually had to look it up; it appeared in ASM Annual #16 from 1982), I recall thinking, 'Oh, yeah, she was a thing for five minutes..." Anyway, I even found that page posted online: I wonder with how many of them (except of course MJW) he went beyond a few chaste kisses... |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Sept 30, 2022 8:22:23 GMT -5
I wonder with how many of them (except of course MJW) he went beyond a few chaste kisses... We're really derailing this thread now, but I think there's quite a bit of online discussion among Spidey fans about which girls Peter actually had sex with and even when and to whom he lost his virginity. For what it's worth, when I got a little older I'd always assumed that he and Gwen were sexually active, like most dating college-age people are - although this is, as I said, a matter of some debate among fans. It's also *very* strongly suggested in ASM #189 (1979) that he had sex with Betty Brant (who was at the time 'on a break' from her husband, Ned Leeds, after they had a fight or something). And of course, he and MJ were obviously doing more than just smooching on the couch... |
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Post by zaku on Sept 30, 2022 8:55:05 GMT -5
I wonder with how many of them (except of course MJW) he went beyond a few chaste kisses... We're really derailing this thread now, but I think there's quite a bit of online discussion among Spidey fans about which girls Peter actually had sex with and even when and to whom he lost his virginity. For what it's worth, when I got a little older I'd always assumed that he and Gwen were sexually active, like most dating college-age people are - although this is, as I said, a matter of some debate among fans. It's also *very* strongly suggested in ASM #189 (1979) that he had sex with Betty Brant (who was at the time 'on a break' from her husband, Ned Leeds, after they had a fight or something). And of course, he and MJ were obviously doing more than just smooching on the couch... Thank you. I don't want derail it more, but I can't imagine Peter doing it with a married woman, break or not. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 30, 2022 10:26:40 GMT -5
Wow; see, I was not talking about a message to use the character. I was talking about Cissy's dialogue, saying that everyone thought Peter was a wimp and a bookworm and if they only knew the truth. I was just joking about Claremont writing out a school-age fantasy that "If she only knew the real me..." kind of thing. Like Claremont was sending a message to those girls in school who wouldn't give him the time of day.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Sept 30, 2022 10:33:44 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry for the tangent; I was responding more to zaku's question about Pete's love-life at the time.
Edited to add: As to your actual point/question about that bit of dialogue from Cissy, if Claremont was trying to send some kind of message to somebody else in the Bullpen, I'm not sure why. By the late '70s, Peter hadn't been portrayed as a shy, bookish wimpy type for a long time - it seems to me that he had pretty much shed that image during the Romita years.
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Post by MDG on Sept 30, 2022 14:37:40 GMT -5
Anyway, I even found that page posted online: The idea behind this page is great--I wish it didn't look like it was slapped together when someone said "Holy $#!t! We're a page short!" |
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 16, 2022 16:08:44 GMT -5
Marvel Team-Up #90 Spidey & Beast vs Ben Cooper Batman and the Neon Indian from Gatchaman.....  Creative Team: Steven Grant-writer, Mike Vosburg-pencils, Bob McLeod-inks, John Costanza-letters, George Roussos-colors, Al Milgrom-editor MTU now written by Moon Knight! Synopsis: Beast is the guest of honor at a "furry" convention.....  Petey & Cissy (and Buffy & Jody and Mr French) are at the science exhibition, at ESU and Cissy goes ga-ga for the blue dude. Petey goes looking around and we see that Killer Shrike (the Gatchaman wannabe or Ben Cooper batman; take your pick.) and the Modular Man (the metal skeleton on the cover, but not the same one as in Tom Strong #2) are there to steal a microwave condenser, to try to reverse his molecular dissolution, which will also, somehow, aid Killer Shrike in learning his origin (his parents were murdered by insects and he trained himself to wage war on them, after taking his costume inspiration from a missile, that flew into his den). The condenser looks more like one of them new-fangled pocket calculators than a capacitor (which used to be called a condenser), an optical device or a mechanical device which draws turns vapor into liquid. Science! Petey's Spidey-alarm goes off and he heads to a hallway to change clothes, while Modular Man smashes the display case and takes the TI-30....  Spidey turns up, but gets ambushed by Killer Shrike and knocked flying over the heads of Beast and his new harem. The furry one removes his lab coat and enters the fray. It doesn't go well...  The villains flee and the girls rush to beast and "kiss a boo-boo." They learn about the Microwave Condenser, which will somehow have medical uses, once they figure out how to power it without massive amounts of microwaves. Spidey begs off the chase, to go find Cissy and tells Beast to track them and he will find Beast for the finale (How meta!). Petey finds Cissy, who is gushing over the piece of Beast's lab coat she swiped and invites the mopey guy over tomorrow night, to watch some tv, on the new-fangled "cable." She has new channels, like USA Network and WOR. No HBO, though; that would cost extra! Modular Man has the condenser adjusted, they just need a power source, which they will have when the new cable system launches.  Modular Man and Killer Shrike are in a helicopter, above the Empire State Building, prepared to collect the microwave transmissions from the tower, on top of the building (where the zeppelin mooring mast was supposed to be). Beast spots them, after figuring out how they could get enough microwaves and Spidey turns up right behind him, to win their bet. KS swoops down to the tower and redirects the microwave transmissions to the helicopter, feeding them to Modular Man, robbing the city of seeing the intro segment of MTV being broadcast out of order (but you had to be in New Jersey, to see it). KS knocks Spidey off the tower and Beast makes the save. He hits KS with a dropkick, but MM has grown to giant size and is playing King Kong, up on the tower...  Modular Man does a heel turn on Killer Shrike, since he doesn't need him anymore and he calls on Jerry Lawler to team up with him, to get revenge. Well, that's the way it always went on Memphis wrestling tv.... Spidey rescues him and he and Beast use KS' wrist talons to blast Modular Man's metal body, which causes his consciousness to dissipate. Ks flies away and Spidey tells Beast to let him go. He's headed over to Cissy's house to see the WWF matches from Madison Square Garden, where new heel Hulk Hogan makes his debut, beating Ted Dibiase (who wasn't a Million Dollar Man or relief fund fraudster, yet), Bob Backlund defeat Bobby Duncam, Antonio Inoki defeated Hussein Arab (aka The Iron Sheik), Pat Patterson successfully defended the Intercontinental title against Dominic DeNucci, and Tatsumi Fujinami defended the WWF Jr Hwt title against Johnny Rivera, who was not the guy who sang "Secret Agent Man." (That was Johnny Rivers) Thoughts: The science in this is pretty bad; but, the story is decent enough for a book like this. Spidey and Beast get to play scientists and superheroes and are relatively equally used, though Spidey gets more panel time. Killer Shrike was never even a C-list villain and debuted fighting Ulysses Bloodstone. He was one of many Roxxon-created mercenaries. Kind of surprised that he didn't end up on Scourge's kill list. Microwave technology was all of the rage, at the dawn of the 80s, leading to sales of microwave ovens and advances in telecommunications. Microwave satellite transmissions helped the cable industry flourish, taking it from something that aided tv coverage in rural and mountainous areas to urban environments and the boom in new cable tv companies and broadcast networks. Most areas had the three networks, PBS and maybe a UHF station or two, aside from bigger cities. Soon you had a dozen or more channels! That soon grew to dozens of channels, then hundreds of channels. All with the same I Love Lucy reruns! Seriously, content was a bit lacking, on some channels My grandparents, in Bloomington, IL were the first of our family to have cable, in any form, which is where I first saw WWF wrestling, from Madison Square Garden, back when Vince McMahon Sr was the promoter and Junior was just the tv announcer, in ugly sport coats (check out late 70s/early 80s footage; Vince had some cringe-worthy jackets). I first saw Tiger Mask on one of those shows. They also got a Chicago UHF station (Channell 44, I think) that featured weekday afternoon broadcasts of the Marvel Super Heroes cartoon, the Gantray-Lowell Spider-Man, Speed Racer, and a rotating time slot of Ultraman (M-W-F) and Johnny Soko (Tue-Thur). That beat our endless local reruns of Gilligan's Island, The Brady Buch, The Partridge Family and Bewitched. We got cable in 1982, just in time to enjoy the end of MTV's first year of existence, with few commercials and lots of videos, mostly from Canada or Europe. Where else could you see Todd Rundgren's Utopia ("Feet Don't Fail Me Now"), the Buggles ("Video Killed the Radio Star"), The Clash and Steel Breeze ("You Don't Want Me Anymore.) The topic of discussion, when school started back up (we were wired over the summer, in my hometown and the surrounding areas) was whether that was Martha Quinn, in the J Geils Band video ("Centerfold"). It wasn't. Can you believe Peter Wolf was married to Faye Dunaway?  Anyway, topical stuff and a nice change of pace from the usual Claremont tale. Grant sticks around for a while and livens things up a bit.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 16, 2022 17:17:07 GMT -5
Marvel Two-in-One #90 Thing & Spidey! What's the point of having two stars of team-up books crossover, if the story isn't big enough to encompass both titles? Spidey was teaming with Gargoyle, from the Defenders, in MTU. Creative Team: Jan Strnad-man in search of a second vowel and writer, Alan Kupperberg-pencils, Jim Mooney-inks, Diana Albers-letters, George Roussos-colors No editor listing, beyond Shooter as EIC. GCD says Salicrup is still editing. He is listed as editor on the letters page (where he hawks the Death f Captain Marvel GN). Synopsis: Peter Parker and Debra Whitman are in Central Park, where The Society for Creative Anachronism (I assume) is putting on a medieval jousting display.  I liked it better with Ed Harris and Tom Savini...on motorcycles! (Best part is Stephen King as a spectator, kibitzing on the action, comparing it to pro wrestling!) The banner says Renaissance Fair, but someone forgot to tell Kupperberg, who is drawing medieval stuff. It just so happens that Alicia Masters has sculptures being exhibited for the Fair and she turns up, dressed as a fair maiden, with a somehwat ogre-ish knight as her date.  I take it those are Renaissance slacks and an Earl of Oxford shirt, or something.... Some kid runs over to Ben and wants him to lift him in the air, mentioning his cartoon show (Fred & Barney Meet The Thing? Yeesh.....) Thing Ring, do your thing! Pete and Debra go over to meet Alicia and Ben, while a hapless wizard is stuck int he handcuffs he said couldn't hold him. Said "wizard" is contacted across dimensions by a real wizard, who is in a wizardly battle and is down 2 points. He is stuck in a giant web, by his opponent, but, he makes contact with the modern schlub and sends his consciousness through to him, entering the Marvel world. Peter talks to Alicia and Debra gets jealous of the attention he is giving her (mature stuff here, Jan) and storms off. Alicia clues Pete in on the fact that his date has stormed off and he goes after her. While this goes on, the wizard tests his powers in this world and causes a Maypole to ensnare passers-by. Well, it is a big bondage ceremony.... Ben frees everyone from the Maypole and then the wizard puts a whammy on a "knight," and sends him galloping to skewer Ben with his lance. Ben one-ups Prince Valiant and survives...  Spidey jumps in to fight the knight, when he draws his sword and hops around avoiding him, while Ben looks for Alicia. Spidey uses Ben as a shield, when the knight attacks with the broken Maypole and then Ben swats him into a tree. Spidey spots the wizard with the glowing eyes and follows, with Ben bringing up the rear. The wizard floats over the city and conjures up a monster, which the heroes subdue. Spidey grabs the wizard, who says they can't harm him without hurting his host body. The dude's girlfriend turns up to confirm the possession and they call for Max Von Sydow. Well, no, but that would have been cooler. The wizard is forced to leave the body, to avoid Ben giving hi a fatal bearhug, because Ben bluffed him into thinking he is a monster who doesn't care about the host body. Thoughts: Meh. This is a pretty weak story, with the wizard coming out of left field and then buggering off after a chaotic fight with few real consequences. It's pretty weak and mostly an excuse to do a Ren-Fair story, with superheroes, but someone forgot to tell Kupperberg. His art is pretty blah, regardless of his historical ignorance. Strnad isn't a bad writer, as witnessed by his collaborations with Richard Corben and the series Dalgoda, with Dennis Fujitake, from Fantagraphics. However, this isn't even his average work, let alone best. There is a germ of a theme, about how people perceive Ben as a monster, until they get to know him, sort of encapsulating his journey from alienated monster in the early FF stories, to the Blue-Eyed Idol of Millions. You could demonstrate that in a much better story than this, though. Too bad Corben didn't draw this, though Alicia would have suddenly sprouted massive knockers and Ben might walk around with his "dork hanging out." Marvel Two-in-One is winding down, as it will be cancelled, to make way for a Thing solo series. I don't know if that was known, at this point; but, it does feel like no one gives a crap about the title, ever since DeFalco wrapped up the Giant Man death storyline. DeFalco & Ron Wilson return next issue; so, maybe things will pick up. Has to be better than Kupperberg's mediocre art and David Anthony Kraft stories (nd Strnad's, here).
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 22, 2022 15:45:09 GMT -5
Marvel Team-Up #92 Spidey & Hawkeye! Spidey consults on a difficult surgery, during the Korean War. Creative Team: Steven Grant-writer, Carmine Infantino-pencils, Pablo Marcos-inks, John Costanza-letters, Carl Gafford-colors, Denny O'Neil-editor Synopsis: Spidey comes across an armored car that has been blown open and finds Hawkeye, who acts afraid of him....  Hawk fires an arrow and runs away. Spidey chases, knocks him out and carries him off. Hawkeye comes to and explains what happened...  Mr Fear hit the car and gassed Hawkeye, like he was some kind of Bat-themed vigilante, or something. They go to Hawk's apartment, to pick up another bow and he gets a call from his boss, about the stolen Cross technologies cargo. Hawk better find it or his job is done. He had a tracer on board (of course he did) and they follow it. They find a high rise, where Mr Fear lives, enter and fight his goons. Spidey gets gassed and cringes, Hawkeye makes the save, more fighting, people go out windows but end up okay and Mr Fear is taken down. Thoughts: Routine stuff; pretty cliched story. Fear-themed stories pretty much all end the same, with the hero overcoming their fear to beat the villain. Nothing new to see here.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 22, 2022 16:04:16 GMT -5
aw, crap: I skipped one..... Marvel Team-Up # 91 Spidey & Ghost Rider! Creative Team: Steven Grant-writer, Pat Broderick-pencils, Bruce Patterson-inks, Jim Novak-letters, George Roussos-colors, Denny O'Neil-editor Synopsis: Peter Parker and Glory Grant are at a carnival, in Connecticut. The get conned into going into the sideshow, where they see a fake Man-Thing, then a burning skeleton, caleld The Blazing Skull. Peter says it is Ghost Rider and the MC has him ejected....  Pete takes Glory home and then returns as Spidey and investigates. After dealing with guard dogs, he must face the whole mass of carnies and runzay wayzay. he runs smack into Ghost Rider, who blasts him. They fight on a roller coaster and Spidey goes down and ends up chained to a wall, while the "magician, Moondark.... (Whoops, that's Mandark!) ...monologues.....  He plans to steal Spidey's soul, but Spidey rips off the ring, Ghost Rider is released, he goes all demonic on Moondark, Spidey calms him, Moondark is taken away by his demon master and Ghost Rider pops a wheelie as he rides off. Thoughts: Probably why I skipped this.....doesn't do much for me. Same old supernatural stuff, where villain has power of other being, because.....and then somehow, vaguely defined, loses it and then pays fitting price. Meh. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 22, 2022 16:18:01 GMT -5
Marvel Two-in-One #91 Ben & Not-Batman! Creative Team: Tom deFalco-writer, Ron Wilson-pencils, Jon D'Agostino-inksDiana Albers-letters, George Roussos-colors, Mark Gruenwald-editor Synopsis: In Egupt, some Indiana Jones wannabes awaken something, in the desert. In Greenwich Village, Dr Strange detects a disturbance in the Force. In the Baxter Building, Ben Grimm works out while reading Executioner novels, or whatever "Mark Boyland," calls himself in his pulp novels. Dr Strange turns up to tell him about nightmares about danger for Ben, in Egypt. He flies off in the Pogo Plane and lands in the middle of a Sinbad film....  Ben stumbles into one of themissing members of the earlier excavation crew and is beset by Arabs. He kicks asp and then surrenders to two goons, to be taken to their leader. They actually do it and their boss is The Sphinx, which is how we get the Batman shadow, without getting sued. he yaps about ruling the world, reminds us of his battle with Galactus, then leaves Ben chained up. He breaks free, they fight, Clobberin' Time, smash up a machine, wreck some jewel and Sphinx flies off in a pyramid because his plans have been thwarted.  Thoughts: This is dull and if DeFalco can't be bothered to write a decent yarn, I can't be bothered tearing it apart. Lot of talking heads, a little violence and not much logic to the plot.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 22, 2022 16:52:38 GMT -5
Marvel Two-in One #.........
I give up.
The good issues are done and this is winding down to the end, with issue #100, when it is replaced by a thing solo book. I just can't find the will to detail more of this; so, I am just going to summarize.
Issues 92-93 find Jocasta at the Baxter Building, because her personality is slipping away. It is all about Ultron's control over her and she reawakens him from the adamantium slag he was left in, in the Avngers story in the Marvel Super Heroes novel. Machine Man helps Ben get through to her and she sacrifices herself to give Ben and Machine Man the opening to destroy Ultron. Not a bad two issues, as those things go.
94 has Alicia saved from some gang punks by a stranger, who turns out to be a missing millionaire. ben hunts for him and Power Man & Iron Fist have been hired by his company to find him, but spend an inordinate amount of time playing video games. They cross paths, find the guy, fight over who gets to claim him and then discover dirty deeds at his company.
95 has the Living Mummy mind controls Alicia and ben ends up back in Egypt, to stop things.
96 has Ben in the hospital, after fighting the Champion, one of the cosmic immortals, like the Gamesmaster and the Collector. He needs rest and various heroes come to visit and also stop various vilains from disturbing him. In the end, Sandman shows up to bring him some beers and smokes.
97 has Iron Man and a movie set.
98 has Franklin and video games and video game worlds.
99 has Rom
and 100 has Ben meet his alternate timeline self, where the cure he administered in issue 50, to his past self, cause an alternate world to be born. he visits it and finds out that because Ben's path changed, Galactus destroyed the Earth and the Red Skull rules over part of it. Ben and his other self beat the Skull, before Benr eturns to his world and the story ends.
Annual #7 has Ben, Sasquatch, Thor, Namor, Wonder Man, Doc Samson, Hulk and Colossus nabbed by an alien promoter, to fight the being known as the Champion. That one is pretty good; so, I will return to it, next time and cover the whole issue.
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Post by MWGallaher on Oct 23, 2022 9:28:55 GMT -5
It seems like Marvel was paving the way for a THING solo series here at the end, with five issues that don't bother promoting a "legitimate" specific co-star in the logo. I wonder if the design format of plastering two co-stars' logos on a team-up book was losing its sales appeal, as soon only MARVEL TEAM-UP would continue the practice. Even when the team-up format was revived with John Byrne's run on ACTION COMICS, readers were never treated to the dual logos, just a generic, consistent labeling over the main logo. I, for one, always loved seeing the paired co-star logos, but I suppose all design formats eventually go out of favor. Maybe the publishers decided it looked too juvenile, or awkward, or just expensive. Marvel was featuring a lot of minor characters who'd never had a prominent logo there at the end, and they rarely seemed to invest much effort in them, although they still had to pay letterers to create them; in fact, to my eyes, Marvel never quite got the hang of making it look good, perhaps because I was acclimated to BRAVE & BOLD's side-by-side arrangement while Marvel usually went with the above-and-below positioning, resulting in a cluttered feel.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 23, 2022 11:09:49 GMT -5
It seems like Marvel was paving the way for a THING solo series here at the end, with five issues that don't bother promoting a "legitimate" specific co-star in the logo. I wonder if the design format of plastering two co-stars' logos on a team-up book was losing its sales appeal, as soon only MARVEL TEAM-UP would continue the practice. Even when the team-up format was revived with John Byrne's run on ACTION COMICS, readers were never treated to the dual logos, just a generic, consistent labeling over the main logo. I, for one, always loved seeing the paired co-star logos, but I suppose all design formats eventually go out of favor. Maybe the publishers decided it looked too juvenile, or awkward, or just expensive. Marvel was featuring a lot of minor characters who'd never had a prominent logo there at the end, and they rarely seemed to invest much effort in them, although they still had to pay letterers to create them; in fact, to my eyes, Marvel never quite got the hang of making it look good, perhaps because I was acclimated to BRAVE & BOLD's side-by-side arrangement while Marvel usually went with the above-and-below positioning, resulting in a cluttered feel. From what I have read, Shooter mandated the change, wanting a Thing solo book, rather than a team-up. The justification was that sales vacillated according to guest stars, but Thing as a character did fine, on his own. I looked at a few Thing comics, but they never wowed me. Mostly, it was the writing. Once I reached the point where I stopped reading MTIO (I was always just an occasional reader, depending on if there was something like Project Pegasus), my enthusiasm for the reviews started waning as the art and story got more Marvel generic. There is a reason why I pretty much stopped reading most Marvel comics, by the mid-80s and it was down to the writing and the generic look of things. Discovery of more sophisticated indie comics helped push me in that direction, plus heading for college, though DC grabbed me back, in college. Burnout is a factor here, too, as you run into the same plots in these things, especially these types of books. Spidey still has some good issues ahead, so I will continue with him; but, I may end up glossing through lesser issues. |
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Post by badwolf on Oct 24, 2022 12:23:24 GMT -5
The issue where the Thing and Franklin Richards fight Pac-Man and the one where the 3rd-rate villains attempt to gang up on Ben in the hospital are some of the worst comics I ever read. I hated them even as a kid.
I am fond of this period of MTU however. Probably I am biased because it was my first subscription as a kid of 10. But I really do still think they are good.
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