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Post by MWGallaher on Dec 15, 2020 6:12:19 GMT -5
Cary Bates is definitely underappreciated and often overlooked. I forgot to consider him, myself, despite his drawing me into The Flash as one of my first must-buy series when I started into comics. Sixteen years later, his Captain Atom held me from issue one as one of the two best of DC's Charlton Action Hero makeovers.
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Post by foxley on Dec 15, 2020 6:41:53 GMT -5
Cary Bates is definitely underappreciated and often overlooked. I forgot to consider him, myself, despite his drawing me into The Flash as one of my first must-buy series when I started into comics. Sixteen years later, his Captain Atom held me from issue one as one of the two best of DC's Charlton Action Hero makeovers. Bates is one of those reliable writers who it is really easy to forget about for some reason. As I said in my post, he probably would have slipped my mind completely had I not been reading Silverblade when Cei-U announced the topic. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 15, 2020 12:06:30 GMT -5
Random thoughts on Day Two because I'm sadistic that way.
Alan Moore - Yeah...we'll be seeing The Madman From the North again.
Bill Mantlo - I can honestly say I didn't expect to see Mantlo here...but maybe I should have. I'd put him a step above Isabella, who we saw yesterday, but still firmly in the journeyman category.
Mark Waid - I will always have a soft spot for Waid because of Kingdom Come. Not because I like it. The last time I re-read it I thought it was kind of crap. But it lead to CBR which ultimately lead to here. So there's that. I did like his run on Flash reasonably well though I haven't read it in a long time.
Brian K. Vaughan - I kind of considered Brian K. Vaughan. The problem is that it's be a LONG time since I've read Y: the Last Man, Pride of Baghdad or Ex Machina. I liked them all at the time, but I don't know if I still would. So he's an also-ran who maybe shouldn't have been. But who can say?
Arnold Drake - I remember Doom Patrol fondly. But that could well be a false memory because I generally find most Silver Age DC to be a really hard read. But nice to see old Arnold here.
Steve Skeates - I feel like Skeates' work holds up better than most of his contemporaries. Plop is pretty fun. I need to re-read those books.
Dwayne McDuffie - I had to look hard to see if I'd ever read anything written by McDuffie. I think I may have read the first Damage Control mini. And I think I was reading The Demon when he did a short four issues. But that's it. I was not in a place to delve in to a "new universe" when the Milestone stuff came out. So he's pretty much a blank slate for me.
Roger Stern - Stern is one of those guys who I think is one of the better "mainstream" writers of the time. That said I mostly never read any of his stuff. I did love the sadly short-lived Marvel Universe title. And I read one of his acclaimed Avengers arcs and thought it was pretty okay.
Steve Englehart - I honestly didn't even think of Englehart. And I feel bad about that. Upon further review he'd at least have gotten an honorable mention for his run on Detective. And I really loved his run on Avengers back in the day, but it suffers from; I read it 40 years ago is it still good syndrome. But that run on Detective is freakin' gold.
Garth Ennis - Yeah...that bloke will be showing up again.
Otto Binder - I'd like to read more GA Captain Marvel. At one point I picked up all the 100-page issues of Shazam for the reprints and they're fun stuff. But overall I've read way more of Binder's prose SF than his comics work.
John Wagner - I know Wagner largely from his run on Batman/Detective. Which I remember mostly fondly. But I've read little to none of his British work. So many comics...so little time.
René Goscinny - I've never gotten around to reading Asterix. I mean to...but. I have, however, read a number of volumes of Lucky Luke from after Goscinny started writing it. And they're super fun.
Michael Fleisher - Sigh. This is the first one to come along to make me say, "Slam, you're a dumbass." I have no idea how I didn't think of Fleisher. I consider his run on Spectre to be one of the very best of the 70s. And Jonah Hex is one of the others. I'm not going to re-work my list at this point, but just consider Fleisher to be my 12(a).
Alan Brennert - Yeah...we'll see him again.
Cary Bates - Huh. I didn't even think of Bates. And he would never make my list. But I really loved Flash back in the day when he was writing it. So...neat.
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zilch
Full Member
Posts: 244 
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Post by zilch on Dec 15, 2020 14:36:39 GMT -5
Day two...
Gardner Fox
He created the super-hero team dynamic with the Justice Society and reused the formula for the Justice League. Lots of fun stuff in the Golden Age, with Flash and the Three Dimwits and Hawkman!
-z
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,197
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Post by Confessor on Dec 15, 2020 19:15:31 GMT -5
Michael Fleisher - Sigh. This is the first one to come along to make me say, "Slam, you're a dumbass." I have no idea how I didn't think of Fleisher. I consider his run on Spectre to be one of the very best of the 70s. And Jonah Hex is one of the others. I'm not going to re-work my list at this point, but just consider Fleisher to be my 12(a). Fleisher was my 12(a) too. I love his work on Jonah Hex, but not quite enough for him to make it onto my official list. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Dec 16, 2020 0:12:27 GMT -5
Michael Fleisher - Sigh. This is the first one to come along to make me say, "Slam, you're a dumbass." I have no idea how I didn't think of Fleisher. I consider his run on Spectre to be one of the very best of the 70s. And Jonah Hex is one of the others. I'm not going to re-work my list at this point, but just consider Fleisher to be my 12(a). Fleisher was my 12(a) too. I love his work on Jonah Hex, but not quite enough for him to make it onto my official list. Just barely missed my top 12 as well. |
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,958
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Post by Crimebuster on Dec 16, 2020 12:03:21 GMT -5
I guess I'll add here that Fleisher was my last cut also. Love Jonah Hex. I have mixed feelings about a lot of his other work that I've read, though, so he got edged out as a result.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Dec 16, 2020 21:23:53 GMT -5
11. J. Michael Straczynski
Thor
 You know, having looked at his wikipedia article i have to admit to being ambivalent to the majority of his comic output(other than his Squadron Supreme related books). however, his run on Thor in 2007-2009 is IMHO stunning. Thor had been lost for some time, sure Jurgens had tried his best to do something of interest, but since the departure of Walt Simonson the title avoided GREAT (or more appropriately MIGHTY) with a vengeance. Things were so bad they didnt even have a book for some time. JMS along with Olivier Coipel brought the storm with a vengeance, delivering a truly memorable, human story...of the gods. In my mind this was the start of Thor being the best, most consistent continuing marvel title for the next 12 or 13 years. It laid the platform for others, especially Jason Aaron, to deliver true greatness.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 17, 2020 13:43:20 GMT -5
11. J. Michael Straczynski
Thor More thoughts Gardner Fox - Thirty years ago Fox might well have made my list. Now it's more about respecting his legacy while finding his work an incredible chore to read. J. Michael Straczynski - I don't think I've read anything he wrote. I remember when he was a thing. But it was in a period when I was reading very few comics. Then he was no longer a thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2020 22:59:48 GMT -5
11. Grant Morrison (with apologies to shaxper ) JLA, New X-Men, Batman & Robin, All-Star Superman  I know that I purchased JLA #1 by Morrison and Howard Porter and that I may have even read it. I know that it didn’t thrill me at the time because I didn’t pick another issue up for almost a year. That all being said, the first time I consciously remember reading a Grant Morrison comic was when I picked the four issue Swamp Thing run they did with Mark Millar out of the back issue bin at my LCS. In September of 1997, they began the epic Rock of Ages storyline in JLA #10 and I was hooked for the rest of their run. I went back and grabbed the first two JLA trades and found that my initial thoughts on the book was dead wrong. When Batman takes out the Hyperclan, I was in love. And Superman wrestles an angel in the next arc. Morrison’s The Invisibles was next. I tracked down those back issues and added the new issues to my pull list. I don’t know if I understood the series at all, but I knew I enjoyed their writing and so they were added to my list of writer’s whose work I would pick up when I could. I followed them to Marvel and read their New X-Men run, enjoying it (despite all the rushed fill-in art by Korday on a lot of it). When they returned to DC for the extended run on Batman I was a little hesitant, and even, if I can admit, actively disliked the early issues where Damian Wayne first appeared. I loved Morrison trying to bring all those weird, goofy stories into continuity, but like the Invisibles before it, I was never sure if I understood it all. But then Bruce Wayne died. Dick became Batman with Damian as his Robin. And the Batman and Robin series really clicked for me. We got to the end of the first year of the book and Damian met the Joker and pulled out the crowbar. That was the moment I realized I liked Damian….a lot. He’s remained one of my favorite characters ever since. And I could probably write a ton of words about All-Star Superman. It’s good, real good. Morrison has always challenged me as a reader with huge concepts, as well as giving us distilled, iconic versions of the classic pantheon of (particularly DC) heroes. I expect like Garth Ennis before, I will be revisiting some Morrison comics in the near future. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Dec 18, 2020 16:27:31 GMT -5
11. Steve Engelhart
JLA
Detective I can’t really say that Engelhart is a favorite in the sense that I followed him everywhere. His was a name I’d heard because he’d written for Marvel in the 70’s, but I wasn’t really reading much Marvel in the 70’s. Still, I knew enough to be intrigued when it was announced that he was going to DC to write both Detective and J ustice League of America, two flagship titles that had fallen on bad times, and for me had become simply habit-buys for a long while. Engelhart brought some of the by-now familiar Marvel team-book approach of fractiousness, adding members, questioning what had gone before, and restoring some glamour and glory to the concept of the JLA. He delivered, with Hawkgirl coming on board to show just how absurd it was that she hadn’t been “allowed” before; Wonder Woman finally asserting herself as royalty with power on par with Superman’s; and focusing on some of the neglected members, like Elongated Man, Aquaman and the Atom. Engelhart also dug deep into DC mythology, playing Roy Thomas when he expanded on the Golden Age Manhunter and linking him with the Guardians; bringing back Dr. Light, Snapper Carr, the Key, and Commander Blanx of Mars; and having a bit of self-referential fun with a new character named Willow (based on Mantis). But the pièce de résistance here was when Engelhart raided the DC Museum in order to write the secret secret origin of the JLA, in which we got to see the Atom Age DC Universe in full swing. Who knew that the Blackhawks, Challengers, Roy Raymond, Congo Bill, Robotman, and Rex the Wonder Dog had been fighting the Martians way back when?! Enough has been said on these boards about Engelhart’s turn on Batman in that classic run of Detective, which has probably become head-canon for countless Batman fans. If no other Batman stories had ever ben written, there would be enough to ensure the character’s legendary status. In both comics, Engelhart went back to the roots of each feature in order to resurrect them. Like a great football coach or stage director, he didn’t ask his charges to do what they couldn’t do, and played to their strengths. He went back to basics, relished the past rather than scoffing at it, and realized that the best way to make something better is to figure out what made it successful in the first place. This lesson would not be lost on the likes of Alan Moore, Darwyn Cooke, and more than a few other superb writers.
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Post by Rob Allen on Dec 21, 2020 12:26:33 GMT -5
#11: Marv Wolfman
Mostly for Tomb of Dracula, which was really good for a long long time.
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Post by Cei-U! on Dec 23, 2020 17:53:22 GMT -5
Today's entry would never have crossed my mind before I researched and wrote my book. But I did, and in the process acquired a huge amount of respect for 11. Gaylord DuBois Best remembered today for his adaptations of ERB's Tarzan novels with Russ Manning, DuBois was an incredibly versatile writer who handled genres as disparate as westerns, war, funny animal, and high fantasy. His entire career was spent at Whitman Publishing, who packaged content for Dell for nearly 30 years before launching the Gold Key line, where he wrote long runs of (among many others) Red Ryder, Andy Panda, Raggedy Ann and Andy, and The Jungle Twins. He was a master craftsman who understood how to plot and pace a story for the medium, used a lean, spare style that moved his narrative along, and whether writing with children or older readers in mind never, ever wrote down to his audience. Cei-U! I summon the unjustly forgotten maestro! |
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Post by Calamas on Dec 24, 2020 23:02:41 GMT -5
Alan Brennert
It is conceded that, generally, starting with the Silver Age, DC made plot-based stories while Marvel’s were character-based. There were exceptions. Certainly Arnold Drake loved characters, and weird characters at that. And as Roy Thomas succeeded Stan Lee, plot became more important. Eventually, comics being a small world where everybody knew everybody else, things started to even out. And yet it seems even the greats weren’t great at all of it.
Until Alan Brennert. He understood all the elements of story. Plot and character and theme and emotional resonance. At DC this was applied mostly to Batman. He is so associated with the character--and with Brave & the Bold--that it’s easy to forget that he barely wrote over a half dozen of these stories and only four were in B & B.
He did not hit the ground running. In his Batman/Creeper team-up (not his first story nor his first Batman but the first time I took notice), he was so concerned with what he wanted to say that his theme almost overwhelmed the story. Almost. Talent still prevailed. And he would never misstep again. With his next outing he took Hawk & Dove, whose very existence is defined by their differences, and forced them to see past what defines them. Next he transported Batman to Earth-2, where his counterpart is deceased. Forced to work with that Earth’s Robin and Batwoman, everybody is uncomfortable and yet must find a way to work past it. It’s each individual process that makes the story. And then came his masterpiece: Batman and Catwoman. Ostensibly “The Autobiography of Bruce Wayne!” it is actually the story of the emotion obstacles Batman had to overcome in order to allow himself to fall in love. How Brennert set up this up is nothing short of brilliant. He even tells us at the beginning where he is going and the emotional impact of the conclusion is not blunted in the least.
Those that believe his masterpiece to be Batman: Holy Terror, I won’t argue with you. On a given day I may agree. He took full advantage of how ElseWorlds allows you to twist established characters to the needs of your story. In the end, there is only real complaint when it comes to Brennert’s comic book work. There’s not enough. So, while his name automatically meant quality and he is one of my favorites, there were always others that I would read first. But not many.
It’s why Alan Brennert regularly ended up near the top of my comic stack.
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Post by berkley on Dec 27, 2020 2:25:34 GMT -5
11. Don McGregor
Did he habitually use ten words where one would have sufficed? Maybe. Was his prose pretentious and over-wrought? Sometimes. OK, many times. Did he ... well, you get the idea. But after all these years, I find I admire McGregor for his weaknesses almost as much as for his strengths as a comics writer. I admire his ambition, misplaced though it may have been at times, trying to bring a Dostoevsky-like insight into the nuances of human nature to what were meant to be entertaining adventure or superhero stories - because who says human nature, relationships, psychology isn't entertaining?
McGregor wasn't Dostoevsky, he wasn't even Raymond Chandler - but I can tell you that as a young reader when I saw his name in the credits, I didn,t think, "Oh no, I have to wade through all this excess wrting and purple prose", I thought, "Don McGregor, he writes good comics. I don't always understand what he's getting at, but I like it." Actually, my thoughts probably didn't attain even that minimal level of articulation: it was more a spontaneous feeling that I consistently enjoyed his stories.
I admit that it helped a lot that - I suppose through random good luck, in some cases - he often worked with artists whose work I loved: Bill Graham on the Panther, Craig Russell on Killraven, Gene Colan on Nathaniel Dusk, Paul Gulacy on Sabre and in a couple of memorable Warren mag stories (can't remember if it was Creepy, Eerie, or both) - though on the last two he deserves credit himself because he chose to work with those artists.
I also admit that as far as American superhero comics go, I thnk the pendulum has swung much too far in the opposite direction from McGregor's wordy, elaborate captions to what I think is a misguided effort to emulate film and tv and let the images and dialogue do all the work. Judicious use of text can help pace a comics story and enable the reader to savour the artwork as well as the prose. But that's a discussion for another time and place. McGregor's writing, mannered and verbose as it was, never got in the way of the story for me: on the contrary, it enhanced my enjoyment and I was always interested when I saw his name in the credits.
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