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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 1, 2021 7:07:35 GMT -5
I don't think I'm ever going to get the attraction of Stan Lee. I prefer to decide for myself if a story is good rather than being battered around the head by the text constantly telling how great the story I am reading is.  To be fair, he's usually right. Being serious, I'm not sure if it's because I didn't get into comics until I was in my 20s and had developed a level of cynicism that made me scoff at his grandiose carnival barker-like shtick, but I used to hate Lee's writing. Even as someone who hated Silver Age writing in general, he stood out as particularly off-putting. I'm not sure what changed (maybe it was all the negativity I was seeing surrounding comics), but his over-the-top show/salesmanship completely won me over. He absolute lays it on thick, but he's laying it on top of some very good stories. And it feels less like a man trying to convince me the story I'm reading is "sure to be a collectors item" and more like someone who is enjoying the stories he's writing and can't contain himself. I'm a big fan now, and Lee's writing does a good job of cheering me up. I love how Lee pronounces on the splash page that this issue will be something you will treasure in years to come. It is.  |
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Post by foxley on Jan 1, 2021 7:12:04 GMT -5
I don't think I'm ever going to get the attraction of Stan Lee. I prefer to decide for myself if a story is good rather than being battered around the head by the text constantly telling how great the story I am reading is. To be fair, he's usually right. Being serious, I'm not sure if it's because I didn't get into comics until I was in my 20s and had developed a level of cynicism that made me scoff at his grandiose carnival barker-like shtick, but I used to hate Lee's writing. Even as someone who hated Silver Age writing in general, he stood out as particularly off-putting. I'm not sure what changed (maybe it was all the negativity I was seeing surrounding comics), but his over-the-top show/salesmanship completely won me over. He absolute lays it on thick, but he's laying it on top of some very good stories. And it feels less like a man trying to convince me the story I'm reading is "sure to be a collectors item" and more like someone who is enjoying the stories he's writing and can't contain himself. I'm a big fan now, and Lee's writing does a good job of cheering me up. Each to their own, but shameless self-promotion, no matter who is doing it, just leaves me cold. |
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Post by brutalis on Jan 1, 2021 10:35:43 GMT -5
Stan was the Barnum and Baily Circus Ringmaster and Huckster extraordinaire in behalf of Marvel comics. He personalized them in a way comics had never been before. He made a reader feel as though the comics were all written just for them. That we were a part of and included in the Marvel Universe. That style of promotional artistry is long gone, a piece of the past lost to us.
There is an earnest honest sense of fun and excitement with Stan's verbal banter. As if you were right there with him in person and hearing him talking and not reading his written words. You can FEEL his enthusiasm and jocular verbosity on the printed page. Marvel no longer has much uniqueness to help it stand out in the publishing world anymore. It has no personal identity as it did when Stan was there. I miss old school Marvel😢
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Post by MDG on Jan 1, 2021 11:05:12 GMT -5
Stan was the Barnum and Baily Circus Ringmaster and Huckster extraordinaire in behalf of Marvel comics. He personalized them in a way comics had never been before. He made a reader feel as though the comics were all written just for them. That we were a part of and included in the Marvel Universe. That style of promotional artistry is long gone, a piece of the past lost to us. There is an earnest honest sense of fun and excitement with Stan's verbal banter. As if you were right there with him in person and hearing him talking and not reading his written words. You can FEEL his enthusiasm and jocular verbosity on the printed page. Marvel no longer has much uniqueness to help it stand out in the publishing world anymore. It has no personal identity as it did when Stan was there. I miss old school Marvel😢 I can't argue with your second paragraph, especially during the early years when he (and Jack and Steve) are pedaling as fast as they can to get this thing moving and let the momentum build.
Where it becomes off-putting, to me, is when Stan Lee seems to become the product--the records, the personal appearances, the cartoon voiceovers... It was probably a positive for Goodman to have Marvel closely associated with a company/family guy, but I can see where it would rankle some of the creatives.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 1, 2021 11:13:30 GMT -5
Stan was the Barnum and Baily Circus Ringmaster and Huckster extraordinaire in behalf of Marvel comics. He personalized them in a way comics had never been before. He made a reader feel as though the comics were all written just for them. That we were a part of and included in the Marvel Universe. That style of promotional artistry is long gone, a piece of the past lost to us. There is an earnest honest sense of fun and excitement with Stan's verbal banter. As if you were right there with him in person and hearing him talking and not reading his written words. You can FEEL his enthusiasm and jocular verbosity on the printed page. Marvel no longer has much uniqueness to help it stand out in the publishing world anymore. It has no personal identity as it did when Stan was there. I miss old school Marvel😢 I can't argue with your second paragraph, especially during the early years when he (and Jack and Steve) are pedaling as fast as they can to get this thing moving and let the momentum build.
Where it becomes off-putting, to me, is when Stan Lee seems to become the product--the records, the personal appearances, the cartoon voiceovers... It was probably a positive for Goodman to have Marvel closely associated with a company/family guy, but I can see where it would rankle some of the creatives.
I get that some have bad feelings , but the difference was the he DELIVERED results with his stories.  |
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Post by brutalis on Jan 1, 2021 11:14:44 GMT -5
Stan was the Barnum and Baily Circus Ringmaster and Huckster extraordinaire in behalf of Marvel comics. He personalized them in a way comics had never been before. He made a reader feel as though the comics were all written just for them. That we were a part of and included in the Marvel Universe. That style of promotional artistry is long gone, a piece of the past lost to us. There is an earnest honest sense of fun and excitement with Stan's verbal banter. As if you were right there with him in person and hearing him talking and not reading his written words. You can FEEL his enthusiasm and jocular verbosity on the printed page. Marvel no longer has much uniqueness to help it stand out in the publishing world anymore. It has no personal identity as it did when Stan was there. I miss old school Marvel😢 I can't argue with your second paragraph, especially during the early years when he (and Jack and Steve) are pedaling as fast as they can to get this thing moving and let the momentum build.
Where it becomes off-putting, to me, is when Stan Lee seems to become the product--the records, the personal appearances, the cartoon voiceovers... It was probably a positive for Goodman to have Marvel closely associated with a company/family guy, but I can see where it would rankle some of the creatives.
True enough. Once he was no longer writing or editing and placed as the frontman, the corporate "face" of Marvel merely kept for a salesman (used car one at that), nothing more than being a mouthpiece spouting out slogans and sales driven platitudes, his style lost much of its purity. But at least he was still providing some drive and focus which helped provide Marvel an advantage in being seen and read. Today Marvel really is Brand Blegh. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 12:16:31 GMT -5
Brutalis said what I was trying to say much better.
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Post by berkley on Jan 1, 2021 16:59:58 GMT -5
1. Alan Moore
the non-pareil
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Post by foxley on Jan 1, 2021 21:03:44 GMT -5
I can't argue with your second paragraph, especially during the early years when he (and Jack and Steve) are pedaling as fast as they can to get this thing moving and let the momentum build.
Where it becomes off-putting, to me, is when Stan Lee seems to become the product--the records, the personal appearances, the cartoon voiceovers... It was probably a positive for Goodman to have Marvel closely associated with a company/family guy, but I can see where it would rankle some of the creatives.
I get that some have bad feelings , but the difference was the he DELIVERED results with his stories. And he couldn't have delivered results without endless boasting?
I'm glad others enjoy it, but it is just not for me. (I have some other issues with Lee's writing, but this is not the forum to discuss it.)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 22:06:32 GMT -5
And he couldn't have delivered results without endless boasting? Not the same results, no. |
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Post by foxley on Jan 2, 2021 1:22:59 GMT -5
And he couldn't have delivered results without endless boasting? Not the same results, no. Then the results aren't worth it, IMO. |
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Post by MDG on Jan 2, 2021 10:10:01 GMT -5
Not the same results, no. Then the results aren't worth it, IMO. This thought isn't fully formed yet, but here goes:
Stan Lee seems to inhabit a middle ground between the traditional way comic books were perceived (as the product of largely anonymous and interchangeable artists and writers) and comic strips (where the result was seen as the product of the one or two credited creators, regardless of how many ghosts and assistants were involved). (This also breaks along work-for-hire and creator-owned.)
At Marvel, Stan was viewed as the constant regardless of how much or how little he was involved. Everything said "Stan Lee Presents" as if that was the guarantee of what was Marvel.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 3, 2021 15:54:17 GMT -5
I get that some have bad feelings , but the difference was the he DELIVERED results with his stories. And he couldn't have delivered results without endless boasting?
I'm glad others enjoy it, but it is just not for me. (I have some other issues with Lee's writing, but this is not the forum to discuss it.)
Muhammed Ali boasted AND delivered . |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 3, 2021 17:11:01 GMT -5
And he couldn't have delivered results without endless boasting?
I'm glad others enjoy it, but it is just not for me. (I have some other issues with Lee's writing, but this is not the forum to discuss it.)
Muhammed Ali boasted AND delivered . Ain’t braggin’ when you can do it. |
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Post by foxley on Jan 3, 2021 19:00:33 GMT -5
And yet Gaiman did not feel the need to to pause during Sandman to tell us how we were reading the greatest comic book story of all time. Seems you can also deliver without boasting. I prefer that approach.
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