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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 11, 2021 21:35:07 GMT -5
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Post by berkley on Feb 11, 2021 22:15:27 GMT -5
#15 Hulk vs. Black bolt World war Hulk #1
Black Bolt is one of the true power houses in the MU and has beaten the Hulk on several occasions. In WW Hulk he is taken out off panel. Yeah, that's superhero writing at its absolute worst. The vicarious power fantasy has always been a part of the genre but sometimes it's taken to such extremes that I really can't stomach it. It can be done with any character if the writer is so inclined but there are certain ones that some writers tend to - excuse the vulgarity, but there's no better way to put it - wank off over by writing scenes like this, and the Hulk is one of the worst. Thanos, Batman, and Superman also come to mind.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 12, 2021 6:37:21 GMT -5
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Post by Dizzy D on Feb 12, 2021 8:29:24 GMT -5
#16 Batman/ Prometheus JLA( 1997) 16,17
When I read this at the time, I thought it was amazing and exciting that someone could beat up the Batman so easily. I've come to realize that it's unlikely that even if you could " download" all the fighting styles into your brain, you would still need to be physically fit to use the skills to win. Taskmaster has the same problem, Yeah you could fight like Ironfist but do you have his flexibility? [snip] That's actually been a point in one of Taskmaster's own series: where he tried to replicate movements of a superhuman, but doing so was placing tremendous stress on his body and tearing muscles or in another situation where he as a kid copied the moves of an olympic diver, but hadn't learned to swim yet. In case of both Taskmaster and Prometheus, they are both set up as highly trained humans, so I've no problem with them pulling off the moves of an Iron Fist or Batman.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 12, 2021 8:55:49 GMT -5
Jericho Drumm bitch-slapping Dormammu
(I think it was in Doctor Voodoo #1).
The scene was probably meant to show us that this wasn't the '70s Brother Voodoo, the one Fred Hembeck used to make fun of; this fellow was a legitimate successor to Stephen Strange, who had just given up being sorcerer supreme for some reason. This new Doctor Voodoo was to be taken seriously, by golly, and he had a great new look to go with his return to the limelight.
But defeating Dormammu without raising a sweat in the pre-credits scene of the first issue? I mean, come on!!! Dormammu used to be so insanely powerful that Doctor Strange could never take him on face to face; Stephen had to trick the guy into taking oaths of non-agression or into facing even heavier dudes like Eternity. And here, just to get some credentials, our revamped Doctor Voodoo beats Dormammu with ridiculous ease. Gah! Talk about starting a series on the wrong foot.
I hate it when this technique is used: establishing the creds of a new (or revamped) character by having them (a) beat someone we know they can't, or (b) killing an established character. It's unimaginative, lazy and has to be undone later on.
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Post by badwolf on Feb 12, 2021 11:39:31 GMT -5
#16 Batman/ Prometheus JLA( 1997) 16,17
When I read this at the time, I thought it was amazing and exciting that someone could beat up the Batman so easily. I've come to realize that it's unlikely that even if you could " download" all the fighting styles into your brain, you would still need to be physically fit to use the skills to win. Taskmaster has the same problem, Yeah you could fight like Ironfist but do you have his flexibility? Well, maybe they do. What I question is how do you put someone's fighting skills "on disk"? And where did Batman get Stephen Hawking's data?
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Post by The Cheat on Feb 12, 2021 14:14:56 GMT -5
#15 Hulk vs. Black bolt World war Hulk #1
Black Bolt is one of the true power houses in the MU and has beaten the Hulk on several occasions. In WW Hulk he is taken out off panel. Fairly sure it was revealed that it was a skrull posing as Black Bolt.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 12, 2021 18:19:00 GMT -5
#15 Hulk vs. Black bolt World war Hulk #1
Black Bolt is one of the true power houses in the MU and has beaten the Hulk on several occasions. In WW Hulk he is taken out off panel. Fairly sure it was revealed that it was a skrull posing as Black Bolt. Yes, Bendis made various characters into Skrulls after the fact. It doesn't change the fact that Black Bolt was owned by Hulk. This mini was written way before Bendis and didn't have the Secret Invasion in mind when events unfolded.
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Post by berkley on Feb 12, 2021 18:42:03 GMT -5
Jericho Drumm bitch-slapping Dormammu(I think it was in Doctor Voodoo #1). The scene was probably meant to show us that this wasn't the '70s Brother Voodoo, the one Fred Hembeck used to make fun of; this fellow was a legitimate successor to Stephen Strange, who had just given up being sorcerer supreme for some reason. This new Doctor Voodoo was to be taken seriously, by golly, and he had a great new look to go with his return to the limelight. But defeating Dormammu without raising a sweat in the pre-credits scene of the first issue? I mean, come on!!! Dormammu used to be so insanely powerful that Doctor Strange could never take him on face to face; Stephen had to trick the guy into taking oaths of non-agression or into facing even heavier dudes like Eternity. And here, just to get some credentials, our revamped Doctor Voodoo beats Dormammu with ridiculous ease. Gah! Talk about starting a series on the wrong foot. I hate it when this technique is used: establishing the creds of a new (or revamped) character by having them (a) beat someone we know they can't, or (b) killing an established character. It's unimaginative, lazy and has to be undone later on. Who wrote this story, BTW? I actually like Brother Voodoo and would be totally behind any well-considered effort towards making the character more prominent but this is not the way to do it.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 12, 2021 20:11:23 GMT -5
# 17 Wolverine vs. Lobo DC vs. Marvel # 3
This 4 issue miniseries crossing over the two companies was a mess. It had the then current incarnations of the characters instead of the classic heroes representing each company. You got the Biker Thor, the Ben Reilly Spider-man etc. The main problem with the battles were that there were key battles that were decided by the fans instead of Comic Writers. It led to Storm beating Wonder Woman and this abomination. Sorry, there's no way on ANY REALITY that Wolverine beats Lobo.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 12, 2021 20:29:35 GMT -5
Jericho Drumm bitch-slapping Dormammu(I think it was in Doctor Voodoo #1). The scene was probably meant to show us that this wasn't the '70s Brother Voodoo, the one Fred Hembeck used to make fun of; this fellow was a legitimate successor to Stephen Strange, who had just given up being sorcerer supreme for some reason. This new Doctor Voodoo was to be taken seriously, by golly, and he had a great new look to go with his return to the limelight. But defeating Dormammu without raising a sweat in the pre-credits scene of the first issue? I mean, come on!!! Dormammu used to be so insanely powerful that Doctor Strange could never take him on face to face; Stephen had to trick the guy into taking oaths of non-agression or into facing even heavier dudes like Eternity. And here, just to get some credentials, our revamped Doctor Voodoo beats Dormammu with ridiculous ease. Gah! Talk about starting a series on the wrong foot. I hate it when this technique is used: establishing the creds of a new (or revamped) character by having them (a) beat someone we know they can't, or (b) killing an established character. It's unimaginative, lazy and has to be undone later on. Who wrote this story, BTW? I actually like Brother Voodoo and would be totally behind any well-considered effort towards making the character more prominent but this is not the way to do it. I thought it was Bendis, but the GCD says it was Rick Remender. I like Brother Voodoo as well, and the redesign of his costume (and his dreadlocks) looked very, very good. I don't think having him replace Dr. Strange was a good plan, since it was obvious that it wouldn't last. Much better, methinks, to move him to the A-list on his own merits. Which he deserves.
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Post by berkley on Feb 12, 2021 22:01:32 GMT -5
Who wrote this story, BTW? I actually like Brother Voodoo and would be totally behind any well-considered effort towards making the character more prominent but this is not the way to do it. I thought it was Bendis, but the GCD says it was Rick Remender. I like Brother Voodoo as well, and the redesign of his costume (and his dreadlocks) looked very, very good. I don't think having him replace Dr. Strange was a good plan, since it was obvious that it wouldn't last. Much better, methinks, to move him to the A-list on his own merits. Which he deserves. Yeah, the whole Dr. Strange world hasn't worked too well for a long time, for my money. He's just another MU superhero now, with snappy patter, soap-opera relationship problems, and "magic" superpowers instead of strength or speed or what have you. They might as well start saying he's a mutant or something.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 12, 2021 22:18:12 GMT -5
I remember at the time it was new really liking that JLA art.. boy did it not age well.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 13, 2021 12:41:07 GMT -5
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 13, 2021 22:42:51 GMT -5
#18 Gladiator/ Mr. Fantastic Fantastic Four # 250
John Byrne has always tried to explain Superman's powers are mental in nature. He would explain that lifting buildings and other large structures don't crumble under its own weight because he uses some type of telekinesis to hold it together. Anyway, Gladiator of Marvels Imperial Guard is used as a Superman stand-in in this story and he attacks the FF thinking they are Skulls and he finally attacks Reed Richards but can't do any damage. His failure causes him to doubt himself and then falls prey to a sucker punch by Sue Richards. First of all, Marvel has always depicted him as a sturdy powerhouse and I don't think one punch would knock him out. Also, his powers don't disappear just because he doubts himself. Good going Mr. Byrne. I loved Byrne’s FF as it was coming out, but I read through it a few years later and, despite a few good storylines, I didn’t find it nearly as good as I’d remembered. Byrne is not nearly as clever as he thinks he is. And seeing sequences like this fight between Reed and Gladiator reminds how cringeworthy some of Byrne’s writing is.
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