|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 18, 2021 1:36:10 GMT -5
I remember liking this when it first aired, but when I tried to watch it again I the past year or two, it was so different from the book, I didn't stay with it long. It's on YouTube. I may give it another shot. I like Coburn, but he's not the short, overweight Op of the book. From memory, the book itself isn't one of Hammet's best. I'd advise anyone looking to try out the Continental Op stories to start elsewhere. It’s, by far, the worst of Hammett’s novels. Red Harvest is still the ultimate Op followed by The Big Knockover and The Tenth Clew.
|
|
|
Post by Prince Hal on Feb 18, 2021 17:27:45 GMT -5
In no order whatsoever...
Augustus McRae and Woodrow F. Call from "Lonesome Dove."
Katczinsky(Kat)from "All Quiet on the Western Front."
Satan, "Paradise Lost."
Feste, "Twelfth Night."
Conan
Rick Blaine, "Casablanca."
Mr. Halloway from "Something Wicked."
Pip, Joe, Magwitch from "Great Expectations."
Isabella, "Measure for Measure."
Ahab, Starbuck, Queequeg, "Moby-Dick."
Rosaline, "As You Like It."
Mundo Cani, "The Book of the Dun Cow."
Sherlock Holmes
Robin Hood
Falstaff, Hal, Henry V, "The Henriad."
Tom Joad, "The Grapes of Wrath."Iago, "Othello."
Sean Thornton and Mary Kate Danaher, "The Quiet Man."
Bottom, "A Midsummer Night's Dream."
Paulina, "The Winter's Tale."
George Bailey, "It's a Wonderful Life."
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Feb 19, 2021 1:06:39 GMT -5
I suppose I would have to include Dracula as one of my favourites. I left him out before because I was thnking it was more the novel than the individual character that I liked, but then I'm always interested whenever a new Dracula movie or adaptation in some other medium comes out or when the character appears in a new story, like the Marvel comics series in the 70s, or the Kim Newman books (which I haven't read yet). And that reminds me of a related question: how many of your favourite chracters have ever appeared together in a mash-up or whatever the expression is? I know Holmes and Dracula have, which is what made me think of it. And Philip José Farmer had the Lord Grandrith/Doc Caliban novels. Plus there's the whole Wold-Newton thing, which I've heard about but haven't really explored. Ian Fleming liked Rex Stout's Wolfe and Goodwin enough that he proposed a collaboration that would have had Bond and M teaming up with them, but Stout turned it down, I believe because he thought the chemistry between the two sets of characters wouldn't work. Fleming settled for mentioning the series in one of the later Bond novels, forget which one now. I kind of think Stout was probably right but you never know how it might have turned out - maybe I would have been surprised. Are there any collaborations you would like to see that have never happened? I wouldn't have thought Conan and Elric would necessarily be a workable combination but Roy Thomas and BWS made it into a pretty good comics story that managed to stay true to both characters, which is often the hardest part - it's always tempting to play favourites and have one shine at the expense of the other. Farmer also had Tarzan crossover with Holmes (The Peerless Peer). His Wold Newton stuff is laid out in Tarzan Alive, his fictional "biography" of Tarzan (sums up the novels and explains away inconsistencies), where he provides a family tree, linking him to other literary characters. He continued in in Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life, which did the same for Doc. The basic premise is that a meteor crash landed near Wold Newton (an actual event) and the site was visited by a group of people who either themselves became extraordinary people (Fu Manchu, Sir Percy Blakeny, etc) or their descendants did (Tarzan, Doc Savage, the Shadow, etc). Farmer's The Other Log of Phileas Fogg links Fogg to an alien race, while his Barnstormer of Oz provides a son (I think) of Dorothy Gale (Wizard of Oz). Farmer also wrote Greathart Silver, for Byron Preiss' Weird Heroes anthology (and 2 more stories), which included pastiches of all kinds of pulp heroes. I doubt a real crossover of Conan and Elric would work like you think, as Moorcock was pretty critical of Conan and Robert E Howard. Elric was kind of created to be the antithesis of the Conan-style barbarian hero. Moorcock favored Leiber more; while, similarly, he preferred Mervyn Peake to JRR Tolkien. A good series to check out is the Tales of the Shadowmen anthologies, from Black Coat Books. The series is edited by Jean-Marc and Randy Lofficer, who focus on the French Wold Newton Universe, which connects various French pulp and classic literary characters. The anthologies feature a lot of people who have played in the Wold Newton universe (Win Scott Eckart and some others), writing their own crossovers and pastiches, with the rule that at least one character has to come from French literature. The first volume features a story where the French avenging cinematic hero Judex (a silent serial hero who predates the Shadow by about 20 years) investigates the theft of the Gotham Girasol, a valuable ring that belongs to Thomas and Martha Wayne. Also appearing in the story is Kent Allard, aka Lamont Cranston, aka The Shadow. It explains where The Shadow got his girasol ring and his link to Batman, while providing an inspiration for his own heroic identity. Kim Newman did a few stories (later expanded into a novel) called the Angels of Musik, that mixes the Phantom of the Opera with the premise of Charlie's Angels. The Phantom, aka Erik, is the "Charlie" figure, given commands unseen, and his angels are Christine Danae (from the novel), Irene Adler (from "A Scandal in Bohemia") and Trilby O'Farrell (from the novel Trillbey, which features Svengali). They run up against a scheme from Josephine Balsamo, a recurring villain in the Arsene Lupin stories (based on Giuseppe Balsamo, a figure in a novel by Alexandre Dumas and the person known as Cagliostro, in European courts). A second story has new angels, Gigi, Rima the Jungle Girl, and Eliza Doolittle, going up against Charles Foster Kane, as well as Dr Mabuse. Another story in a later volume has Barbarella meet and bed and then dump Captain Kirk. Xavier Maumejean wrote some of my favorites, including an origin of The Village, from The Prisoner, a battle of wits between PG Wodehouse's Jeeves and Agatha Christie's Poirot; and, a story with the French pulp villainess Madame Atomos (a Japanese scientific genius out to avenge the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki), Madame Hydra (aka Viper) and Modesty Blaise. Separately, he wrote a novel called The League of Heroes which features a super group that includes Captain Hook, a Lord Kraven, Phileas Fogg, Sherlock Holmes and several others, in an alternate Britain, plagued by Peter Pan. Then, it moves into slightly different territory, as things aren't what they seem. Sherlock Holmes made a couple of unauthorized appearances in the Arsene Lupin stories, by Maurice LeBlanc, which led to threats of a lawsuit. LeBlanc then changed the name around a bit in subsequent editions. Tales of the Shadowmen are filled with great stories and characters, including: Judex, Irma Vep (both from silent film serials directed by Louis Fuillade) and the Vampire Gang, the Black Coats (a criminal gang), Doc Arden (a French scientific hero that predates Doc Savage), Dr Omega (a time travelling inventor that predates Dr Who, but is very similar), gentleman thief Arsene Lupin, psychotic master criminal Fantomas, the French detective Maigret, C Auguste Dupin, Becky Thatcher (Vanity Fair), characters from The Moonstone, Sar Dubnotal (an indian mystic character from French pulps), OSS 117 (a spy in a series of novels that spawned a film series and the later Jean Djardeau spoofs), Madame Atomos, Dr Natas (a Fu Manchu swipe), Django (from the Sergio Corbucci spaghetti western), Lemmy caution (a French detective from a series of books and films), the Nyctalope (a French cyborg hero, long before Steve Austin), JimGrim (Talbot Mundy's adventure hero, predating Indiana Jones and RE Howard's El Borak), Belphegor, Dr Loveless, Dr Mabuse, Josephine Balsamo, Barbarella, D'Artagnan, Dracula, The Little Prince, Zenith the Albino (which inspired Elric), Rouletabile, Gregory Temple, Napoleon Solo, Captain Kronos, Machiste, Solomon Kane, Curious George, Babar (who is overthrown in an Animal Farm-style Communist uprising), Captain Future, Northwest Smith (one of the inspirations for Han Solo), Rocambole, Cyrano, Captain Nemo, Asterix, Kato, ete, etc......... Within the stories, certain characters are tweaked to be stand-ins for others, Dr Natas is written as Fu Manchu, Doc Arden is made more like Doc Savage, Dr Omega more like the William Hartnell Dr Who, etc). Some stories are better than others, some are humorous, others are straight adventures, some get rather esoteric. There is a character guide at the back of each to explain who some are (well, they give you credits, so you can go look it up). They also did a reference guide to the Shadowmen, explaining who the main characters of the French Wold Newton Universe are, particularly those who Alan Moore used for his Les Hommes Mysterieux. If you want crossovers, you'll get your fill here. Also, Kim Newman's Anno Dracula books are filled with characters from film, tv, comics, pulps and literature, from the eras in which the stories are set (Victorian London in Anno Dracula, WW1 in The Bloody Red Barron, Italian Cinema in Dracula Cha-Cha-Cha, tv, film and comics for Johnny Alucard). He also threw in some homages in his Diogenes Club stories, a sort of parallel spin-off to the group in the Anno Dracula stories. For instance, a vampire servant of the Diogenes Club in Anno Dracula is Daniel Dravot, from Kipling's The Man Who Would Be King. Another character is a vampiric secret agent, named Hamish Bond (Hamish is Scottish Gaelic for James). In Dracula Cha-Cha-Cha, there is an American actor portraying Hercules in a series of films, named Clark Kent (who was played by George Reeves on tv, whose name is similar to bodybuilder Steve Reeves, who played Hercules in Italian movies). In the Bloody Red Barron, there is a Captain Albright (aka Captain Midnight), Kent Allard, Robur the Conqueror, Count Orlock and an English flyer named Biggles. So...much..fun!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Feb 19, 2021 13:59:49 GMT -5
Speaking of PJF and Win Scott Eckart, the latter was supposed to bewritng a book about The Nine, featuring Farmer's Tarzan and Doc Savage stand-ins, Lord Grandrith and Doc Caliban. It was to be based on a fragment or beginning of a proposed novel Farmer left called The Monster, or something like that. I wonder, did this ever see the light of day, or is it still in the works, or has it been abandoned altogether? I really liked A Feast Unknown and the two sequels, so I hope Eckart does complete it eventually.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2021 16:27:59 GMT -5
Speaking of PJF and Win Scott Eckart, the latter was supposed to bewritng a book about The Nine, featuring Farmer's Tarzan and Doc Savage stand-ins, Lord Grandrith and Doc Caliban. It was to be based on a fragment or beginning of a proposed novel Farmer left called The Monster, or something like that. I wonder, did this ever see the light of day, or is it still in the works, or has it been abandoned altogether? I really liked A Feast Unknown and the two sequels, so I hope Eckart does complete it eventually. Coming in the Summer/Fall from Meteor House.
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Feb 19, 2021 16:44:31 GMT -5
Speaking of PJF and Win Scott Eckart, the latter was supposed to bewritng a book about The Nine, featuring Farmer's Tarzan and Doc Savage stand-ins, Lord Grandrith and Doc Caliban. It was to be based on a fragment or beginning of a proposed novel Farmer left called The Monster, or something like that. I wonder, did this ever see the light of day, or is it still in the works, or has it been abandoned altogether? I really liked A Feast Unknown and the two sequels, so I hope Eckart does complete it eventually. Coming in the Summer/Fall from Meteor House.Excellent news. I'm usually sceptical about this kind of thing - another writer carrying on someone else's characters or fictional universe - but for some reason this particular restoration project has me excited - perhaps because it's at least based on something Farmer himself wrote, incomplete or fragmentary as it is, or perhaps just because I've been hearing about it for so long.I wonder if the fragment was all Eckart had to go on or if there was an outline of any sort of what Farmer intended for the overall plot of the novel.
Regardless, I'll definitely be getting this and might even go for some of the other Meteor House books. Thanks for the link!
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Feb 19, 2021 23:12:45 GMT -5
Excellent news. I'm usually sceptical about this kind of thing - another writer carrying on someone else's characters or fictional universe - but for some reason this particular restoration project has me excited - perhaps because it's at least based on something Farmer himself wrote, incomplete or fragmentary as it is, or perhaps just because I've been hearing about it for so long.I wonder if the fragment was all Eckart had to go on or if there was an outline of any sort of what Farmer intended for the overall plot of the novel.
Regardless, I'll definitely be getting this and might even go for some of the other Meteor House books. Thanks for the link!
Farmer was basically borrowing from Talbot Mundy, who wrote a novel, called The Nine Unknown. It's one of his JimGrim novels, featuring hero James Schuyler Grim, who may have been based on TE Lawrence. He has adventures in Arabia and Egypt and Mundy mixed in the teachings of Theosophy, which suggested a group of Masters had 9 secret books of knowledge that were guarded to protect humanity, as they could destroy the world in the wrong hands. Opposing the Nine are 9 Kali worshippers. JimGrim, as I said, might have been inspired by TE Lawrence, as well as Allen Quatermain. They predate RE Howard's El Borak, which covers similar territory. Steranko's rendering of El Borak was a visual influence on Indiana Jones, which is why Lucas hired him to do conceptual designs and the type of hero draws much from JimGrim, El Borak and the earlier Allen Quatermain. Quatermain actually appears in a whole series of novels, beyond King Solomon's Mines, including crossovers with Ayesha, the queen from the novel She. You find that with some other adventure heroes, beyond the nest known novel. There were several Scarlet Pimpernel novels, multiple Christopher Synn books (The Scarecrow of Romney Marsh hero), Allen Quatermain, Captain Peter Blood and others.
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Feb 21, 2021 22:40:33 GMT -5
I have managed to find a few Talbot Mundy books but haven't read them yet. I'm looking forward to getting into a lot of the stuff from the early 20th century that I haven<t read before, including as many of those French characters as I can find. But right now I<m still covering more of the 19th century.
|
|
|
Post by mikelmidnight on Feb 22, 2021 12:22:09 GMT -5
It’s, by far, the worst of Hammett’s novels. Red Harvest is still the ultimate Op followed by The Big Knockover and The Tenth Clew. My favorite Op will always be the short story, "The House in Turk Street"
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 22, 2021 12:24:20 GMT -5
It’s, by far, the worst of Hammett’s novels. Red Harvest is still the ultimate Op followed by The Big Knockover and The Tenth Clew. My favorite Op will always be the short story, "The House in Turk Street" That would definitely be in my top five.
|
|
|
Post by dbutler69 on Apr 7, 2021 7:20:25 GMT -5
Off the top of my head, Sherlock Holmes, and Count Fosco from The Woman in White (by Wilkie Collins) immediately come to mind. Everybody knows Holmes, but Count Fosco is a wonderful character! Devious, clever, and charming.
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Apr 7, 2021 8:35:11 GMT -5
Off the top of my head, Sherlock Holmes, and Count Fosco from The Woman in White (by Wilkie Collins) immediately come to mind. Everybody knows Holmes, but Count Fosco is a wonderful character! Devious, clever, and charming. Yes, I think Collins came up with something really original in Fosco - at least I can't thnk of any obvious models that he might have been deliberately imitating. I imagine that the Byronic anti-hero might have been an influence, but only one amongst others and in an indirect way.
And if we're speaking of The Woman in White, Fosco's most capable adversary, Marian Halcombe, shouldn't be forgotten.
|
|
|
Post by dbutler69 on Apr 7, 2021 8:39:45 GMT -5
Off the top of my head, Sherlock Holmes, and Count Fosco from The Woman in White (by Wilkie Collins) immediately come to mind. Everybody knows Holmes, but Count Fosco is a wonderful character! Devious, clever, and charming. Yes, I think Collins came up with something really original in Fosco - at least I can't thnk of any obvious models that he might have been deliberately imitating. I imagine that the Byronic anti-hero might have been an influence, but only one amongst others and in an indirect way.
And if we're speaking of The Woman in White, Fosco's most capable adversary, Marian Halcombe, shouldn't be forgotten.
Actually, I had been thinking that I should have mentioned Marian! you're quite right. She's a very strong and interesting character in her own right. Consider her included in my list.
|
|
|
Post by lisacoy on May 17, 2021 3:09:27 GMT -5
I truly love love love the creation of John Gardner's Grendel because we get to really really see an 'anti-hero' as a cursed puppet moving from seemingly one mentor to the next to only be disappointed, disillusioned, and despondent. I like this fictional character also because of the ending in which he forewarns all the creatures in the forest that they should await the ending that he has been given- i feel like that is a unforeseen ecological truth told by the author even when he prolly definitely did not mean it that way.
|
|