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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 26, 2021 14:18:44 GMT -5
To: shaxperRe: Your review of WF 74 I dub thee the Sultan of Sub-Text! Well done. As for the alien as child, I can think of two other DC examples later in the 50s right off the top of my head: "The Mystery of Monster X" (1957) and "The Creature of a Thousand Disguises" (1958), both of which I read here in late 1964: SPOILER ALERT: "Monster X" turns out to be a baby looking for its momma, and "Creature" is a shape-changing youngster who has run away from his home planet.
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Post by chadwilliam on Jun 26, 2021 14:51:29 GMT -5
To: shaxper Re: Your review of WF 74 I dub thee the Sultan of Sub-Text! Well done. As for the alien as child, I can think of two other DC examples later in the 50s right off the top of my head: "The Mystery of Monster X" (1957) and "The Creature of a Thousand Disguises" (1958), both of which I read here in late 1964: SPOILER ALERT: "Monster X" turns out to be a baby looking for its momma, and "Creature" is a shape-changing youngster who has run away from his home planet. At the risk of getting off-topic... " Creature of 1000 Disguises!" had a sequel written by Craig Boldman and was featured in Action Comics 572 (1985). Boldman wrote the story after giving a talk at The Joe Kubert School of Cartoon and Graphic Art and having one the attendees suggest that he write a follow-up to the tale. The writer accepted the challenge and later discovered that the student who made the request was none other than future Batman artist Graham Nolan. www.craigboldman.com/2016/04/25/wayne-boring-pencils/Not really pertinent to this thread, but seeing as how I just recently came across this bit of info and seeing as how said tale was just brought up...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2021 18:15:12 GMT -5
DC Universe Infinite does have World's Finest #74 (at least the main Batman/Robin/Superman 11-page story) and so I read it. Fun, enjoyable story. I haven't read much 1950s Batman, so this was a real treat. Bill Finger really is awesome and we are very, very lucky to have had him involved with Batman. I cringe in thinking about what would have been without him. Are the back-ups available on DC Infinite Universe? Is it really 1955 World’s Finest without Green Arrow and Tomahawk? I suspect it's only the "main story" since they compiled the Batman/Superman stories into the World's Finest: The Silver Age collections. Until there is a higher demand for Green Arrow or Tomahawk stories, I would guess we won't be seeing them.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 26, 2021 18:16:53 GMT -5
The Red Scare allegories also appeared in the pilot for The Adv of Superman, the film Superman and the Mole Men. In the story, a deep oil drilling project brings up a pair of creatures, who while exploring the town, are attacked as monsters. Superman ends up defending both the creatures and one of the townspeople, from a raygun, but chastises the man he saved because he was the one who instigated violence against the creatures. That was released in 1951
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 26, 2021 23:12:20 GMT -5
I think I’ve read a total of two Tomahawk stories in my life.
Twenty to twenty-five years ago, I saw Tomahawk #109 in a dollar bin. Tomahawk and his frontier band of buckskin bumpkins were fighting a caveman riding a pterodactyl. Well. I had to get that! Come on!
And DC’s The Greatest 1950s Stories Ever Told features a Tomahawk story titled “The Black Cougar.” With art by Frank Frazetta! It looks real nice!
Tomahawk started in Star-Spangled Comics in 1947. He was popular enough to get his own comic by 1950 and it lasted until #130 in 1970. He retained his spot in Star-Spangled simultaneously with his own comic for a time, but Star-Spangled was canceled as of #130 and he was moved over to World’s Finest as of #65 and lasted until #101.
What gets me about Tomahawk is that he seems like a character created for the era when Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett were all the rage, but he actually predates that craze by several years.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 26, 2021 23:24:33 GMT -5
I’m not going to go into Green Arrow’s complex history. I’ve read a few old Green Arrow stories and ... I was going to say they’re not very good, but then I remembered the Green Arrow back-up series in Detective Comics in the 1980s. That’s not very good. The Golden Age Green Arrow stories I’ve read have at the very least a little charm and entertaining silliness.
Of course, the Jack Kirby Green Arrow stories are pretty cool! I’m not talking about that. But that doesn’t start until 1958.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 27, 2021 6:55:50 GMT -5
Seeming Batman talking to a baby frog alien is pretty surreal... I agree that 'aliens' in the DCU often are little kids. What I've always thought was funny is the number of different alien races that appear once and are never mentioned again...seems like there are probably 100s of them!
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 27, 2021 8:29:45 GMT -5
I think I’ve read a total of two Tomahawk stories in my life. Twenty to twenty-five years ago, I saw Tomahawk #109 in a dollar bin. Tomahawk and his frontier band of buckskin bumpkins were fighting a caveman riding a pterodactyl. Well. I had to get that! Come on! And DC’s The Greatest 1950s Stories Ever Told features a Tomahawk story titled “The Black Cougar.” With art by Frank Frazetta! It looks real nice! Tomahawk started in Star-Spangled Comics in 1947. He was popular enough to get his own comic by 1950 and it lasted until #130 in 1970. He retained his spot in Star-Spangled simultaneously with his own comic for a time, but Star-Spangled was canceled as of #130 and he was moved over to World’s Finest as of #65 and lasted until #101. What gets me about Tomahawk is that he seems like a character created for the era when Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett were all the rage, but he actually predates that craze by several years. Not to derail, but, as I've written before about the resilient frontiersman: Tomahawk first appeared in Star Spangled 69 (on sale in April, 1947) and became the cover and lead feature with #96; he remained there through #121 (on sale in August, 1951). He also was featured through the final issue of SS, #130 (on sale May, 1952). The only issues on which Tomahawk's logo wasn't displayed when he wasn't the cover feature were #69, 70, 81-89 (when most of them featured new character, Captain Compass's logo), and that final issue, 130. That was 62 straight issues of stories. He also appeared in three straight issues of World's Finest (33-35) in 1948. Now we're up to 65 stories. Meanwhile, two years before finishing the run in Star Spangled, Tomahawk got his own eponymous magazine, the first issue of which went on sale in July of 1950; it ran through #140, which went on sale in March, 1972, just shy of 22 years. (With #131, the logo, though not the title, changed to Son of Tomahawk.) During that run, he also appeared again in WF, from issue #65 through #101! He also popped up a handful of times in the 80s and maybe even the 90s. I know he was in an issue of Swamp Thing in the late 80's/ early 90s, too. That's nearly 500 appearances (some admittedly were reprints used as back-ups as the years went by) and over 200 appearances as a cover feature. Quite an achievement for a non-super-powered character, IYAM.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 27, 2021 8:51:03 GMT -5
I totally missed the transition to Son of Tomahawk!
It’s pretty impressive! He survived the return of the super-heroes by more than a decade! Despite the best efforts of the British, dinosaurs and giant gorilla witch doctors!
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 27, 2021 10:38:52 GMT -5
Just a quick note about the sf aspect of Batman and Detective.
Schiff always bears the brunt of the criticism for the injustices done to Batman during that goofy era, but remember that during the latter half of the 50s and the early 60s, science-fiction and monsters were enormously popular and successful, as were dinosaurs (a sub-set of monsters).
Schiff was only doing what so many other comics were doing in exploiting the interest in those subjects. Schiff takes a bigger hit than Weisinger because Batman had always been more down to earth, no pun intended. Anything could happen in a Superman story: inter-planetary travel, battles against space monsters, whatever. Same to an extent with another super-powered being, Wonder Woman. When Flash and Green lantern reappeared, with their very origins drenched in science-fiction, those kinds of escapades were also no big deal.
But Batman's MO just didn't fit with all of these bizarre adventures. But, like virtually every other comic book at the time, from Tomahawk to Archies to the new adventure titles like Challengers, Rip Hunter, and Fantastic Four, Batman and Detective had to play to the crowd. That the artwork on Batman was unsuited to sf stories also hurt.
For the record, I, a man with no life, did a quick unscientific count of the covers of Batman and Detective from 1950 until the debut of the New Look in 1964.
I counted 26 of the 83 issues from Batman 59 through 163 and 31 of the 119 Detective covers from 208 through 326 as having science-fiction covers. (Feel free to check my math; I did that quickly yesterday.)
The point is that of the nearly 200 covers starring Batman, about 60, or 30 percent, were sf-oriented. They must have been popular, but they were not the sole focus of the Schiff era, either.
PS: Meanwhile, over at World's Finest, of the 40 or so issues between #s 99 and 138, Mort Weisinger went full sf on about half of them. Nobody gets on his case for giving kids what they wanted at a much higher, more concentrated rate.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 27, 2021 10:48:47 GMT -5
If aliens and monsters were attacking everywhere else, why wouldn’t they attack Gotham? And why wouldn’t Batman defend the city?
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 27, 2021 11:03:46 GMT -5
If aliens and monsters were attacking everywhere else, why wouldn’t they attack Gotham? And why wouldn’t Batman defend the city? The poor guy did what he could... (Right up until four issues before the New Look saved them all from alien attacks.)
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 27, 2021 11:08:42 GMT -5
If aliens and monsters were attacking everywhere else, why wouldn’t they attack Gotham? And why wouldn’t Batman defend the city? The poor guy did what he could... (Right up until four issues before the New Look saved them all from alien attacks.) I just got that issue a few months ago. It’s great! I love this stuff.
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Post by brutalis on Jun 27, 2021 11:44:43 GMT -5
Comic books are always trying to mix or profit from whatever is the popular current craze or fad might be This is part of the nature of comic books. So Batman and Robin going sci-fi/fantasy isn't all that outrageous or upsetting for me. Batman with a Hula Hoop, a slinky or Silly Putty as part of his utility belt arsenal is something not likely to be seen, but I can imagine an editor or writer back in the day trying to work them into a plot. Can you say Roller Skate and helmet nose Iron Man?
Reality is NOT really what I want in my comic book reading. Realistic is fine but I prefer escapism with fun and thrills. Get plenty of reality in life so don't need or want it in my "funny books".
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jun 27, 2021 11:45:25 GMT -5
Bill Finger really is awesome and we are very, very lucky to have had him involved with Batman. I cringe in thinking about what would have been without him. Have you seen Ty Templeton's version of what that might have been like?
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