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Post by foxley on Jun 28, 2015 7:43:32 GMT -5
I've been thoroughly enjoying Cinebooks translation of The Scorpion. (And how has nobody turned this story into a movie yet?)
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Post by Confessor on Jun 28, 2015 9:37:37 GMT -5
Suggestions from this thread of the great European comics which may have been translated are much appreciated. I took a peek at what Cinebooks is offering in English and saw that Leo's SF series Aldebaran is available. That is definitely worth reading; it's one of the best SF comic ever produced. Not derivative of anything (it's not a watered down Star Wars or Dune), it takes great care in building the ecology of the world it is describing... and with engaging characters and plot, too. Aldebaran is fantastic. I found the Cinebooks' English translation to be great and the whole story was a real page turner. Gorgeous artwork too. My only gripe would be that some of the nudity in the original has been doctored and censored in the Cinebooks version. The scene in the first book where two of the characters make love, and the woman keeps her bra and panties on the whole time, was annoyingly distracting because it made no sense. But don't let the censorship put you off checking it out, it's still an excellent read.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 28, 2015 10:15:21 GMT -5
I took a peek at what Cinebooks is offering in English and saw that Leo's SF series Aldebaran is available. That is definitely worth reading; it's one of the best SF comic ever produced. Not derivative of anything (it's not a watered down Star Wars or Dune), it takes great care in building the ecology of the world it is describing... and with engaging characters and plot, too. Aldebaran is fantastic. I found the Cinebooks' English translation to be great and the whole story was a real page turner. Gorgeous artwork too. My only gripe would be that some of the nudity in the original has been doctored and censored in the Cinebooks version. The scene in the first book where two of the characters make love, and the woman keeps her bra and panties on the whole time, was annoyingly distracting because it made no sense. But don't let the censorship put you off checking it out, it's still an excellent read. Ack! I hate censorship. Put a warning on the cover if you must, but let the artist's work in peace. I wonder what Cinebooks will do with Aldebaran's several sequels and spin-offs, as the level of nudity increases!
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Post by Confessor on Jun 28, 2015 10:58:32 GMT -5
Aldebaran is fantastic. I found the Cinebooks' English translation to be great and the whole story was a real page turner. Gorgeous artwork too. My only gripe would be that some of the nudity in the original has been doctored and censored in the Cinebooks version. The scene in the first book where two of the characters make love, and the woman keeps her bra and panties on the whole time, was annoyingly distracting because it made no sense. But don't let the censorship put you off checking it out, it's still an excellent read. Ack! I hate censorship. Put a warning on the cover if you must, but let the artist's work in peace. I wonder what Cinebooks will do with Aldebaran's several sequels and spin-offs, as the level of nudity increases! I've not read the Betelgeuse or Antares series that Cinebooks have put out yet, but I mean too.
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Post by benday-dot on Jun 28, 2015 15:03:00 GMT -5
Aldebaran is fantastic. I found the Cinebooks' English translation to be great and the whole story was a real page turner. Gorgeous artwork too. My only gripe would be that some of the nudity in the original has been doctored and censored in the Cinebooks version. The scene in the first book where two of the characters make love, and the woman keeps her bra and panties on the whole time, was annoyingly distracting because it made no sense. But don't let the censorship put you off checking it out, it's still an excellent read. Ack! I hate censorship. Put a warning on the cover if you must, but let the artist's work in peace. I wonder what Cinebooks will do with Aldebaran's several sequels and spin-offs, as the level of nudity increases! I agree. Cinebooks has also censored Thorgal for nudity whenever it may occur. I mean come on, publish it all or not at all. Well, i do still enjoy it, so maybe I don't mean that, but it makes me angry. The censorship is not even usually to protect the vulnerable from the mean or the exploitative, it's just to shield us from "offensive" biology. The attitude behind the "protection" is more juvenile than those supposedly in need of protection.
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Post by coke & comics on Jun 28, 2015 23:59:04 GMT -5
Suggestions from this thread of the great European comics which may have been translated are much appreciated. I took a peek at what Cinebooks is offering in English and saw that Leo's SF series Aldebaran is available. That is definitely worth reading; it's one of the best SF comic ever produced. Not derivative of anything (it's not a watered down Star Wars or Dune), it takes great care in building the ecology of the world it is describing... and with engaging characters and plot, too. I'm very interested, but a few reviews on Amazon are disconcerting. Two note that the binding was poor and the pages easily fell apart. Another notes that the art has been censored in places. EDIT: Which I see we have already discussed. Wonder if it's worth holding out for a more faithful printing.
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Post by foxley on Jun 29, 2015 3:26:49 GMT -5
I don't know if it is the same for the other Cinebooks publications, but at the start of The Scorpion that say that some of the art has been altered (which I took to mean censored to remove the toplessness) and that this had been done with the consent of the original creators.
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Post by Confessor on Jun 29, 2015 6:28:13 GMT -5
I took a peek at what Cinebooks is offering in English and saw that Leo's SF series Aldebaran is available. That is definitely worth reading; it's one of the best SF comic ever produced. Not derivative of anything (it's not a watered down Star Wars or Dune), it takes great care in building the ecology of the world it is describing... and with engaging characters and plot, too. I'm very interested, but a few reviews on Amazon are disconcerting. Two note that the binding was poor and the pages easily fell apart. Another notes that the art has been censored in places. EDIT: Which I see we have already discussed. Wonder if it's worth holding out for a more faithful printing. The censorship issue is something that only you can answer because only you know how much it'll bother you. Personally, it bothered me a bit, but not enough to really detract from my enjoyment of the story. It was more an annoyance at being treated like a kid. Your mileage may vary. As for the Cinebooks binding, all I can say is that I've owned the Aldebaran series, 3 volumes of Blake & Mortimer and Berlin - The Seven Dwarves for several years now and I've not noticed any problem with the binding at all. I don't know if it is the same for the other Cinebooks publications, but at the start of The Scorpion that say that some of the art has been altered (which I took to mean censored to remove the toplessness) and that this had been done with the consent of the original creators. This is exactly the same disclaimer as in Aldebaran.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 29, 2015 7:10:08 GMT -5
I find such a disclaimer disingenuous at best. The average cartoonist makes very little money, and unless they're really into the "starving artist who remains true to their vision even in the face of starvation" groove, they will readily accept to see their art slightly modified if it means getting a few thousand more books printed. For the publisher to claim that the creators are fine with editorial modification is pretty meaningless in such a context.
Naturally, covering a breast here or there or having people make love in their underwear is not going to fundamentally change a story. Nor does having Greedo try to shoot Han, for that matter. But I'd expect publishers to have an artistic interest in the vision of the creators whose work they print, and to leave it well enough alone, without worrying about what the Tea Party might think about a bit of nudity here and there.
I mean, we're not talking about porn, here. How is it bad for young readers to see a bit of skin but all right for them to see scenes of decapitation or evisceration? There is something twisted in that view of what is proper and what is not.
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Post by Confessor on Jun 29, 2015 9:53:54 GMT -5
How is it bad for young readers to see a bit of skin but all right for them to see scenes of decapitation or evisceration? There is something twisted in that view of what is proper and what is not. I couldn't agree more.
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Post by foxley on Jun 29, 2015 16:24:28 GMT -5
I'm not defending the practise. I assume it was done to allow them to sell the book in the American market, as only the US (in the English-speaking world) kicks up much a stink about a little tasteful nudity. Personally, I would love to be able to see the art in its original form. However, as I can't read French (or any language other English for that matter), this is my only way to access this material.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 17:04:08 GMT -5
There are explicit sex comics on sale in the American market though. I also don't tend to see Cinebooks in bookstores so I don't think it's a distribution angle, but I could be wrong about that. Anyway, I don't like the practice. I'm glad someone is out there translating the stuff, but I tell you what, if I ever win the lottery I'm founding a publishing company to focus on translating Euro comics and doing it right
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 18:13:03 GMT -5
There are explicit sex comics on sale in the American market though. I also don't tend to see Cinebooks in bookstores so I don't think it's a distribution angle, but I could be wrong about that. Anyway, I don't like the practice. I'm glad someone is out there translating the stuff, but I tell you what, if I ever win the lottery I'm founding a publishing company to focus on translating Euro comics and doing it right IDW has started their Euro line in translation with the Corto Maltese books and others are already in the works. They have a rep for doing projects like this right, it's just a matter of what they will translate and what they think has legs in the American market. However, if the early books in the line sell disappointingly, the line may not last long enough to get to some of the more obscure stuff from Europe. Humanoids Press is another who does it right, but again, their presence in the American market has been negligible as people aren't buying it in big numbers. I have no knowledge or experience with Cinebooks, but they may be making decisions trying to try to make the potential market in the US as big as possible. PG movies sell 4-5 times the number of tickets as R rated movies in the US, so trying to make the book PG may be an attempt to court a larger audience to keep the books viable. Not sure, but sometimes publishers actually know the market they are selling to and what sells and what doesn't. Not always, but you know once in a while. I'd prefer unedited unabridged version, but even translation is altering a book as a translation is an adaptation of the existing work. No language really translates directly into another as connotation of words and idioms convey different meanings in one language than in another, and translators often have to choose between capturing the intended meaning and an actual accurate literal translation of the words used, so it's all an approximation anyways. I had an associate who was fluent in Italian who had read Umberto Eco's novels in both Italian and English, I asked him why he did it in both and his response was, well they're two entirely different stories as most of Eco's humor, intent, and nuance is lost once it's rendered out of the Italian into another language and translators essentially have to rewrite the story, and you have to hope whoever does the translation has a knack for writing readable prose because a literal translation will make a terrible read. So if you really want to read an unaltered version of the original, you're going to have to become fluent in the original language. If you are going to settle for a translation, you are already settling for an altered version. -M
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 19:05:35 GMT -5
Yeah there's a handful of publishers out there doing it, and as far as I know they're all doing a good job, even Cinebooks. I'm sure the profit margin for translated Euro stuff is slim so I'm thankful for whatever we get. Just saying, my comic wish list starts with quality Euro translations.
As far as expanding the market, you're right. All ages stuff sells better. But as far as I know, what sells the absolutely worst is edited material. R rated movies with the bad words dubbed out. Rap albums with radio versions of all the songs. I imagine the same would happen with Euro comics. For the most part, they're not mainstream. Maybe Smurfs (which also has been edited), but other than that, it's a niche market smaller than the Manga following. And within the manga following, edited material is not all that popular either. They even like the right to left format.
It's not a huge deal if a couple lines of bikini are added in a panel or two in a 48 page story, but it kind of insults the medium as well. Some comics are kid friendly. Some are not. Just like movies, there is a time and place for adult material, and as adults I don't think it's necessary for our entertainment to be censored. This opinion might be different if the comic was marketed at kids, but I don't think they are. With or without nudity, Aldebaran is a mature drama that few kids would find interesting at all, except maybe to look at the pictures.
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Post by benday-dot on Jun 29, 2015 19:39:03 GMT -5
I think dupont2005 is right on. And this reminds me of the horrid fate that was visited upon Wally Wood's Wizard King Trilogy when publisher Vanguard got hold of the rights. Anyone familiar with this effort of Wood's knows it features little naked elf like creatures, so we are shown elfish breasts and butts. And anyone who knows Wood knows that elfish breasts and butts were no accidental part of his art.
But Vanguard decided to publish this work of Wood by colouring in little bikinis all over the place. Not only was it done completely artlessly so that it looked like weird geometries of colour spray, but it was an attempt to make the story something that Wood never thought it to be. It was as though Vanguard decided that any story with cute little elves in it must automatically be a children's story, which, of course, must ban the sight of bare breasts. Furthermore, since this must have been what Wood must have actually intended, let's just do what he thoughtlessly neglected and abolish all those little breasts that get in the way of our revisionism.
It would have been far better if they never decided to publish the Wizard King in the first place.
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